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physicsgraduate

Intermediate hearing on Monday. No witness statements/evidence scotland

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I got myself into a spot of bother with the cops. Easy done it seems.

 

Long story. I'm not here to discuss that. I didn't do anything wrong. Idiots calling the cops over nothing resulting in me getting arrested.

 

Anyway, I've had the first hearing and the next hearing is on Monday.

 

My legal aid has not gone though yet.

 

I haven't heard from my appointed solicitor as promised many times, either by phone or to arrange to meet. I expected a call at least today. Nothing!

 

So as far as I am aware they have still not been presented with witness statements and evidence from the prosecution. And in any case I know nothing about the details of the prosecution's case and there is now exactly zero working days until the hearing.

 

Apart from the fact I am considering going with another solicitor recommended by a friend and not WSA...

 

... where does my case stand with regards to this?

 

Three charges. I'm looking at potentially resisting arrest and verbal abuse to the police as a worst case scenario.

 

As I understand it it's good practise to have the accused, or their lawyer presented with the evidence 14 days prior to the intermediate hearing, or else how can I be expected to reconsider my plea?

 

Anyone know of any nice little loop holes in the legal system I can throw at the judge on Monday and walk out the building for the last time, and extend my middle finger up to the whole thing?

 

:mad2:

 

p.s. Scotland

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Well, if you didn't do anything wrong you've nothing to worry about.

 

Did you resist arrest? If you felt your arrest was unlawful, best not to resist, but get your solicitor to claim for the unlawful arrest.

Did you verbally abuse the police (or anyone in public?). That'd be a public order offence.

 

and extend my middle finger up to the whole thing?

 

"Well, I didn't do anything wrong, but I go around sticking my middle finger up" !

 

Yup, I can see why you find it easy to get in trouble with the cops..........

 

A nice little legal loophole would be to not stick your middle finger up at anyone / anything, or make good that threat to move to another country .... although I'm not sure any have cops that are more accommodating to "a perceived attitude" than in the UK...

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story doesn't ring true

esp in Scotland.

 

if all you were arrested for what was a wee bit of banter and antics whilst being arrested

you would have been cautioned for want of a different word and released when you got to the station.

 

what have you actually been charged with?

 

and were you held in the cells overnight and then released to appear at the hearing you have already had.

 

or were you before the sheriff before you got released.

 

and this is the hearing coming up?

 

as I say story doesn't right as to how the system works up here to me...........


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Forget it.

 

I'm not here to be judged by people. I'm sick of people misjudging me.

 

I don't wish to get in to the details of the arrest because I'm fed up thinking about it.

 

I'm here to ask if anyone knows anything about the rules about presenting evidence to accused prior to intermediate hearings, but clearly all the above want to do is insult me.

 

At least I have some good friends around me that have been really supportive.

 

So far as sticking my middle finger up at the judicial system goes, my solicitor shares the same sentiment.

 

If only I was as sensible as you two when people send the police round to my door twice for nothing, the second time for nothing more than trying to make things up with them.

 

You don't know me and you don't know what happened so keep your snide comments to yourself.

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"Well, I didn't do anything wrong, but I go around sticking my middle finger up" !

 

Yup, I can see why you find it easy to get in trouble with the cops..........

 

That is NOT what I said!

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story doesn't ring true

esp in Scotland.

 

 

as I say story doesn't right as to how the system works up here to me...........

 

First hearing - not guilty

Accused is presented with evidence

Intermediate hearing - not guilty

Trial

 

That's how it's supposed to work.

 

I seem to be going from step 1 to step 3 and missing out step 2 altogether.

 

CAN I USE THAT TO GET THE WHOLE CASE DISMISSED?

 

That's ALL I want to know. Maybe this is what my solicitor is aiming for and he's not letting on. I don't know.

 

FYI it has to go to trial because it's a hate incident. Homophobic abuse. It all started when someone took offence at an innocent comment. I then lost my rag and said some things to the police, not on the same night. I lost my rag because I was drunk and they sent the police round to my house for nothing more than trying to explain myself and offer an olive branch. That was the second time they sent the police round to my house!

 

Things went pear shaped after I was bundled in a van and taken 40 miles from where I live. Up until that point I hadn't done anything wrong.

 

Rather than releasing me without charges the cops pinned these charges on me to get at me.

 

My gay friends know me better though, they're not vicious little drama queens. They've been very supportive and they're taking me to court because it's miles away. I'm being driven to a court hearing/trial on charges of homophobic abuse by gay friends.

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Right so this is the way I read it

 

You had a rant at someone this was called homophobic (not saying it was just that it was called this)

 

Police were called and you went home

 

Another day

 

You went around to house to apologise and it got out of hand police were called again (you said it was second time) at this point you adit ed getting out of hand as drunk (not going to ask if drunk before going around)

 

I'm going to guess that charges relate to drunk and disorderly or hate crimes

 

It's unfortunate but it does happen, walking into court and saying "I have gay friends who know I wouldn't do this" really won't help

 

I would suggest going in being contrite and admitting the language might have caused offence but that it wasn't intended in this matter might be the best line


Please note:

 

  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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Police were called the following night. It was all over nothing.

 

Hate incident, not crime. The prosecution also need to prove things were said with malice for it to be a hate anything.

 

Having gay friends will help since it shows I am not homophobic, in fact there is nothing in the case that shows that I am in any shape or form a bigot.

 

This is not what I am here to discuss.

 

My solicitor is responsible for all the necessary legal stuff. I'm just going to turn up and tell it how it was, offence was taken but none was intended. The court should see that.

 

Don't ask me any more questions about the details, I don't want to get in to it here.

 

I just wanted to know if I can get the case dismissed on the grounds that I'm attending a second hearing and I STILL DON'T KNOW the precise nature of the charges against me!

 

I'll be pushing for all charges dropped citing police misconduct and suggesting the prosecution are charged with wasting police time.

 

Please only reply to this thread if you know the answer to the question I asked. Any more posts relating to the specifics and I'll request this thread is closed.

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An Intermediate diet is a hearing a week or two before the trial diet to check that both you and the PF are ready to go to trial...

 

 

The Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1995 (the provisions of which are now consolidated in the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995) included provisions:

 

 

(a) designed to enhance the level of use and effectiveness of intermediate diets in summary cases (an intermediate diet must be scheduled in most cases);

(b) to introduce mandatory first diets in sheriff and jury cases; and

© to encourage the use of provisions aimed at avoiding the need to lead oral evidence at trial through the agreement of evidence which would otherwise require to be proved by the testimony of witnesses in court.

 

 

Intermediate diets and first diets (within summary and solemn procedures respectively) are held in advance of trial diets in order to confirm that the trial is likely to proceed on the scheduled date, as well as to consider whether there is any scope for the agreement of evidence.

 

 

The changes introduced by the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1995 were intended,

firstly,

to reduce the number of trials which are cancelled or adjourned on or shortly before the scheduled trial diet

(for example, as a result of a late 'guilty' plea or the non-availability of an essential witness)

and,

secondly,

to reduce the number of witnesses who attend court to give evidence which could have been agreed by the parties.


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Thanks. I did read some of that off a website before I came here though, and I couldn't find anything that said evidence must be produced prior to the intermediate diet. Diet as in hearing, whatever hearing means. Why do they have to make everything so difficult for the layperson to understand in law? Oh yeah, so they can confuse/frighten us into pleading guilty...

 

They better not say the evidence is not ready and I have to appear for another intermediate diet! It's already a real hassle for me to get to the court, hence the offer from my gay friend to drive me there. It's either that or a round trip costing about £50 each time!

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TBH IF you've nothing to really worry about as you didn't really do anything other than I say a bit of a wee bump around with the police it'll be dropped

and not being represented is to your advantage...

but

and this is probably WHY they have gone to diet,

is they suspect there might be something more serious involved.

which has yet to proved or provable

 

 

to you it might be a farce

but

these things are taken very seriously up here IF you were perceived to have made homophobic/hate comments etc

just remember.

its out of your mates hands doesn't matter what they say/do..

nothing to do with him now

the police are in the driving seat..

 

 

pers i'd wind your neck in & def not be so cocksure in court

 

 

an eejit at my local court got a £700 fine for shouting down the highstreet at two blokes holding hands in public not so long back


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Why is not being represented to my advantage?

 

I have a soliticitor, I think he doesn't want to spend any more time on this than he has to until the witness statements come through.

 

I'm not that worried about it, I am a bit though. Everyone tells me to go in all remorseful and take the hit, but I'm damned if I am going to be messed about by stupid people and the police and the legal process. I'll stand my ground to the end. I didn't create this situation. It was thrust upon me through a series of successively and increasingly stupid people over reacting to an incident that wasn't worth spending a nanosecond bothering about in the first instance.

 

I just want this to be over with and out of my life and my head as quick as possible.

 

I wouldn't say the circumstances which led to this eejit getting a fine are anything like mine, and I have plenty of solid evidence that proves I am the exact opposite of homophobic. The courts have to prove there was real bigotry and in the case of shouting abuse at gay people in the street that's not hard to do. I don't think anyone deserves a punishment for that though, however nasty it may be, unless it's a sustained verbal attack over several times. In my case I can prove beyond any doubt that I am not a homophobe.

 

I'll win that charge hands down, and if I don't it will go to appeal.

 

The only thing I have to worry about is resisting arrest. I did that. I also called the police a few things, but the flip side of that coin is police misconduct... etc. The truth will out and the courts will see how unneccesary getting the police involved was from the start and I was just a guy trying to make things right, but unreasonable people and straws and camels backs...

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I'm not judging I'm just suggesting what might go well

 

I didnt intend to offend might go better than I'm not sure what I'm accused of

 

I don't mean it as a criticism but most judges will have heard this multiple times and although it might well be true in this case it may well be treated as the same as all the other

 

Most people have gay friends I have a few but unfortunately being supported by some gay friends will not hold water against something that someone else has considered offensive


Please note:

 

  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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I'm just going to turn up and tell it how it was, offence was taken but none was intended

 

Actually, how it was intended isn't relevant to guilt or innocence, only to mitigation if found guilty.

For guilt or innocence, it is how a person of average fortitude might reasonable perceive it.

 

 

I just wanted to know if I can get the case dismissed on the grounds that I'm attending a second hearing and I STILL DON'T KNOW the precise nature of the charges against me!

 

I'll be pushing for all charges dropped citing police misconduct and suggesting the prosecution are charged with wasting police time.

 

Three charges. I'm looking at potentially resisting arrest and verbal abuse to the police as a worst case scenario.

 

so, they've told you three charges and you know which three!.

You admit to resisting arrest, but the Procurator Fiscal is wasting police time ?!?

 

you stand more chance with :

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

 

 

https://goo.gl/images/f3CMJc

 

Please only reply to this thread if you know the answer to the question I asked. Any more posts relating to the specifics and I'll request this thread is closed.

 

Expect, at most, the case being held over if the court believes you that you don't know the nature of the charges against you.

 

 

Things went pear shaped after I was bundled in a van and taken 40 miles from where I live. Up until that point I hadn't done anything wrong.

 

Perhaps you ought to recalibrate the point where things went pear shaped....... unless they bundled you into a van before arresting you, which would be unusual.

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BazzaS don't talk to me again. I will ignore all your future posts from now on. Don't waste your time, I don't want to read your inflamatory rubbish, and I wont from now on.

 

I'm not judging I'm just suggesting what might go well

 

I didnt intend to offend might go better than I'm not sure what I'm accused of

 

I don't mean it as a criticism but most judges will have heard this multiple times and although it might well be true in this case it may well be treated as the same as all the other

 

Most people have gay friends I have a few but unfortunately being supported by some gay friends will not hold water against something that someone else has considered offensive

 

I've already considered how I'm going to approach this. It's not how I want to approach this, but it will have to be. I'm well acqainted with the kind of people who are judges, and the lives they lead outside of work. My mouth will be saying "yes your honour" but my mind will be thinking "...

 

I have more than just "I have gay friends" in my favour, trust me when I say they are not pinning homophobic abuse on me.

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Why is not being represented to my advantage?

 

I have a soliticitor, I think he doesn't want to spend any more time on this than he has to until the witness statements come through.

 

I'm not that worried about it, I am a bit though. Everyone tells me to go in all remorseful and take the hit, but I'm damned if I am going to be messed about by stupid people and the police and the legal process. I'll stand my ground to the end. I didn't create this situation. It was thrust upon me through a series of successively and increasingly stupid people over reacting to an incident that wasn't worth spending a nanosecond bothering about in the first instance.

 

I just want this to be over with and out of my life and my head as quick as possible.

 

I wouldn't say the circumstances which led to this eejit getting a fine are anything like mine, and I have plenty of solid evidence that proves I am the exact opposite of homophobic. The courts have to prove there was real bigotry and in the case of shouting abuse at gay people in the street that's not hard to do. I don't think anyone deserves a punishment for that though, however nasty it may be, unless it's a sustained verbal attack over several times. In my case I can prove beyond any doubt that I am not a homophobe.

 

I'll win that charge hands down, and if I don't it will go to appeal.

 

The only thing I have to worry about is resisting arrest. I did that. I also called the police a few things, but the flip side of that coin is police misconduct... etc. The truth will out and the courts will see how unneccesary getting the police involved was from the start and I was just a guy trying to make things right, but unreasonable people and straws and camels backs...

 

 

let the courts work it all out..

 

 

resisting arrest etc is childs play and if theres nothing further other than conjecture other things may be involved

it'll all comeout in the wash.

 

 

dont let your attitude ruin that outcome


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Your attempts to troll me are nothing but a waste of your own time. I might not be able to block you, but I don't have to read anything you write.

 

I don't think it presents a very good image of the site to new people who come here and find a long standing member attempting to wind someone up who is going through a rough time and comes here asking for advice.

 

If noone has any information regarding the specific question about deadlines for submission of witness statements then can some from admin close this thread, or better still delete it.

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Your attempts to troll me are nothing but a waste of your own time.

 

Providing relevant advice is hardly trolling

 

I don't think it presents a very good image of the site to new people who come here and find a long standing member attempting to wind someone up who is going through a rough time and comes here asking for advice.

 

The problem is that every time advice is given its been refused or called trolling

 

can some from adminicon close this thread

 

Please do until the next time you've verbally abused someone while drunk


Please note:

 

  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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Not sure this is necessarily a consumer issue but it's certainly a data protection issue.

 

I was fined by the (so called) Scottish Justice System last year and I'm paying it off in installments. (is there a minimum I have to pay, because they said 20)

 

This month I couldn't make it to an office so I decided to pay online. Terrible, insecure online method of paying!

 

The page I was directed to (can't remember the web address) was basic, and it didn't ask the name of account holder or what credit card I was using.

 

I was then directed to a window which popped up that alerted me to the fact I was about to send my bank details across an insecure network and they could be intercepted by third parties; so at that point I declined and decided to pay by phone instead.

 

When I then went through the automated voice steps the system then alerted me to the fact my balance was £20 less in arrears, which meant the payment had in fact gone through when I thought I had cancelled it!

 

I emailed them and they verified the payment had in fact gone through, before I went ahead and paid twice.

 

How unprofessional? And they are not only expecting me to pay this ridiculous fine but it appears also expecting me to compromise my bank details on some dodgy online payment mechanism.

 

Not good enough. I have complained.

 

Just wondered what anyone thought of this, and more importantly if there is any remote chance I can spin this in my favour and use it to get this fine dropped (wishful thinking) doesn't appear my solicitor cares much about defending me or appealing

 

. I am going to write to the EU Court of Human Rights about the whole thing (big old long story there about nightmare new neighbours and bent coppers)

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Bad system I agree but you'll get nowhere at the EU court of human rights.

Its not a human right to be able to make a safe and secure payment!

 

The DPA or ICO might be a better avenue

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I'm not applying to the EU human rights court for that, it would be for all the other stuff.

 

I guess I've got more or less zero chance of anyone there giving a stuff either though eh? I'm still doing it anyway as a protest.

 

The human rights abuse extends a little further than the courts.

The police and the justice system did everything in their power to turn a minor dispute between neighbours into a full blown storm.

 

I could have resolved the matter between myself and these idiots who got it into their heads i was a threat and started wasting police time, but then they slapped bail conditions on my head. It's more complicated and I'm not getting in to that here.

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I would Say its not minor if the Scottish justice system fined you.

By you using that terminology in going to assume its a criminal matter.

 

If a court found you guilty there is a LOT more to this story than your letting on but you dont have to explain.

All I will say is there is always two sides to a story and you got fined.

Read between my lines.

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