VT'd car through welcome, they claimed damage, lowells claim form !!**TOMLIN**

[swt61]

Hi All,

I am sending my car back under the V.T rules to welcome Finance

 

today I had a guy come to do an inspection from the RAC on behalf of the finance company his findings were:-

 

Stone chips to Front Bumper

stone chips to Bonnet

 

Scratch to nsr wing( This scratch was on the car when I originally purchased the car)

 

I bought the car 2 yaers ago with 96,000 Miles on the clock it has now done 113,000 MIles and the car is in better condition now that when I bought it.

 

I have Full Audi service history wirth the car & surely a car with this mileage on it is expected to have this type of stone chip damage as i accepted it at 96,000 Miles with stone chip damage.

 

The RAC man asked me to sign for the damage which i refused to do so as I would be agreeing to paying the £500 to rectify the damage he quoted.

 

They are having a laugh surely,

 

Simon

[ReasonableRon]

Hi Simon,

 

I probably can't post the link on here, but look up the BVRLA Fair Wear & Tear guide on t'internet. This is the voluntary code published by The British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association and allows everyone to know what to expect when returning a leased vehicle.

 

Although I doubt Welcome subscribe to this code, it does set out the degree of expectation in respect of what 'reasonable condition' should amount to.

 

For example, light scratches of no more than 25mm in length and not down to bare metal should be regarded as acceptable.

 

If they are expecting you to pay for conditions outside of this then IMO they are being unreasonable/unfair, and you may well have grounds to challenge it.

 

Hope that helps.

[swt61]

Hi Simon,

 

I probably can't post the link on here, but look up the BVRLA Fair Wear & Tear guide on t'internet. This is the voluntary code published by The British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association and allows everyone to know what to expect when returning a leased vehicle.

 

Although I doubt Welcome subscribe to this code, it does set out the degree of expectation in respect of what 'reasonable condition' should amount to.

 

For example, light scratches of no more than 25mm in length and not down to bare metal should be regarded as acceptable.

 

If they are expecting you to pay for conditions outside of this then IMO they are being unreasonable/unfair, and you may well have grounds to challenge it.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks Ron,

 

I have just had a quick look the bad scratch on my rear wing was on the car when I bought it & so were quite a few stone chips then it states stone chips are acceptable but it does not say how many

The car has been on the motorway all of its life & every garage I have spoken to has said that any vehicle with this kind of mileagwe will obviously have stone chip damage.

 

I will fight this all the way,

 

Simon

Edited December 15, 2008 by swt61

[swt61]

They are trying to shaft me big time here I just took some high res images of the supposed stone chips unbelievable I can hardly see them.

 

I could possibly shaft them back as when I requested a copy of my credit agreement from them they sent me mine and someone elses agreement with all their personal details on it:eek:

 

I did call them weeks ago to tell them this and the guy went very silent on the phone & then said oh thanks for bringing it to our attention please post it back to us & we will refund your postage cost, I said yeah right oh I will lol:p

 

I still have this copy which is not mine.

 

Shaft them back deeper & hatrder I think comes to mind lol:D

 

Any suggestions anyone ?

 

Simon

[swt61]

I took the car to a local Bodyshop today to ask their advice they looked at my car and said that there was nothing wrong with it & they felt that the RAC were taking the p**s. They are putting there findings in writing for me nothing is on the car that is not normal wear and tear,

 

Simon

[ReasonableRon]

I took the car to a local Bodyshop today to ask their advice they looked at my car and said that there was nothing wrong with it & they felt that the RAC were taking the p**s. They are putting there findings in writing for me nothing is on the car that is not normal wear and tear,

 

Simon

Sounds like you have got balance of opinion on your side.

 

You now need to write back to them and advise them that you do not agree with the findings of the RAC report (stating your reasons). You should supply a copy of your own report and also mention the industry standard for vehicle conditoins (as I mentioned before).

 

Remind them of the mileage the vehicle has covered, and that the vehicle's condition can take this into account.

 

Tell them what you are prepared to pay, assuming that there is still a sum outstanding in relation to your VT obligation, and then advise them that will be it.

 

If they have got any sense they will accept this position and realise that they on a sticky wicket. They have no grounds to refuse your request to terminate, and you can them leave the vehicle at their nearest branch.

[swt61]

Thanks Ron,

 

Simon

[swt61]

Hi all, I received a copuy of my CCA from Welcome Finance but also under seperate envelope I got someone elses CCA it was addressed to me I called Welcome to explain what had happened & they went very quiete on the phone & said thanks for bringing it to our attention please post it back & we will refund you the postage. Yeah Damn Right i will ( NOT) I have an issue currently with Welcome as I am V.T ing my car I owe them £453.00 to end the agreement plus they want to try and shaft me for stone chips on the car that has done 113k

 

If a copy breaches ther DATA protection act how much could it cost them financially?

 

I may have the upper hand here,

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[42man]

Simon....send it to the Information Commissioners Office..and also send it to the person named on the agreement stating that it was sent to you....

[swt61]

Simon....send it to the Information Commissioners Office..and also send it to the person named on the agreement stating that it was sent to you....

 

 

o.k will do

 

thanks:p

[swt61]

Hi Everyone,

 

Well as you can see from the dates that this now has been going on for a Year nearly

 

The car went back eventually spoke to welcome about not paying for the damage

and they eventually agreed so I started paying them £30 a month off the Deb.

 

Then out of the Blue about 4 months ago a really snotty girl rang me to say that she wanted the debt ckleared

including the amount for the damages to the car as far as she was concerned it had not been written off

 

I told her I was not paying it so i stopped the payments.

 

I did tell her that when I asked for a copy of my cca they sent me someone elses in error

 

she went very silent and asked could I post it back

 

I said no way

 

she then stated that I was breaking the law by keeping it & she could call around and collect it I still said no way I will keep it safe for the Court.

 

I requested that she send me mine and a full statement of account which has never arrived.

 

The next thing I get is a letter then a phone call from Lewis Debt recovery I told them the situation in no uncertain terms on the phone & they said oh please take it back up with Welcome.

 

I have now today received a Court threat letter from Howard Cohen solicitors asking for the full amount what can i do ?

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[swt61]

Hi, in 2008 I used my right to terminate my hire purchase agreement with welcome finance as I had paid half to total amount payable, I received a letter stating that they would send the rac around to inspect the car. The rac guy arrived and guess what he decided to list damages lol.

 

Stone chips to front of bonnet £120

Front Bumper chips £120

scratch to rear wing £120

oil top up £10

Labour £ 279.20

total inc vat of £746.58.

 

I refused to sign for these damages as the car had 113,516miles and these were age related marks, I bought the car with over 90k miles on it & they never insisited before they loaned me an inspection. I immediately took the car to a body shop who confirmed in writing these were more tan acceptable for this mileage and the scratch was there originallythere when I bought it.

 

I battled with them for ages even after they had collected the car that these charges were not acceptable, but it kept going on and on for ages, I requested a copy of my CCA and they sent me someone else's credit agreement in full lol, I contacted and they panicked and said please send it back! I never did as I was sure one day they may try to go to court, eventually they stopped contacting me last letter was Feb 2009. I have never received an annual statement since Nov 2008 showing any sums owed.

 

Now they have sold the so called debt on which now has crept up to £1565.26

 

Lowell have issued me a CCj form now for this debt. I rang Lowell/BW legal yesterday and asked them what they knew about this so called debt the lady said you owe money on a finance agreement but when I explained the background of it she said I will have to speak to my client now and get back to you asap. I called welcome finance and asked them why I had not received any letters or statements from them if I still owed them money the lady at welcome said we don't have to send you any but I cannot discuss further as your debt has been sold on

 

I have screen shots of my credit file showing the welcome finance loan and it was never marked as defaulted but it clearly shows that in 2012 this account has been satisfactorly closed.

 

What can I do ? I cannot sleep worrying that they will get away with this.

I can send someone screen dumps of my credit file if you wish to see to advise,

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

Edited October 23, 2013 by swt61

[citizenB]

So Lowells have issued a claim against an assigned debt that you have been disputing with Welcome.

 

Did they advise the account had been assigned and did you make them aware there was a dispute with Welcome ?

 

How come this debt has doubled ? Were there interest and charges being added.

 

Can you let me know the following.

 

Date of issue of the claim - top right hand corner of the form

 

and..

 

Why they say they have issued the claim ..

 

[swt61]

Hi,

the date of the issue is 14th Oct 2013

 

they claim form states :-

the claimants claim is for the amount of £1565.26

being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a credit agreement

regulated by the CCA 1974 between the defendant

and welcome financial services under account number *******

and assigned to the claimant on the 30/08/2012 notice was given to the defendant.

 

The defendant failed to maintain a contractual payment under the terms of the agreement

and a default notice has been served and not complied with.

 

The claim also includes statutory interest at a rate of 8.0% per annum from the date of the assignment of the agreement

to the date of issue 14/10/2013 being an amount of 119.19.

 

My credit file shows no default registered for the account

and I have not received one from welcome either.

 

In Dec 2009 lewis group tried to chase for the same thing

and after telling them it was not part of my finance agreement o

nly welcome trying it on for so called damages ther response was this :-

 

"

Dear Mr ****************

 

With regards to your recent email.

 

We have noted the account with your comments.

 

However, we feel that your email should be dealt with by Welcome Finance.

 

We have today returned this account to Welcome Finance, please contact them with further queries.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Lewis Debt Recovery"

 

Si

[dx100uk]

I have merged your old thread here for the history on this.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

did you ever send welcome an sar?

 

dx

[swt61]

I have merged your old thread here for the history on this.

 

dx

 

that's brilliant thanks mate I did not know how to do it

 

Regards,

 

Simon

[swt61]

did you ever send welcome an sar?

 

dx

 

No I never did ask for an SAR only my cca when they sent me some other poor sole's full agreement

[swt61]

This is off my credit file :-

[dx100uk]

you'll need to PDF those attachments for us to see them properly

 

dx

[swt61]

you'll need to PDF those attachments for us to see them properly

 

dx

 

 

Sorry here are the screenshots of my credit file

[swt61]

I just had an interesting chat with BW Legal,

I just called her back as yesterday she said that she would go back to her client she said it could take sometime.

 

I said well I don't have time do I? as you have filed for a CCJ!

 

she said to go ahead and file a defence anyway which I will,

 

I then asked her

can you send me a copy of my CCA or any information that you hold for me regarding this so called debt.

 

The reply was we never had any documents for this they will still be with Welcome,

 

If we need them we will ask for them.

 

I said well surely if they sold the debt to you then you should hold my CCA etc

she said no I have nothing here for you.

 

What's the views on this ?

 

regards,

 

Si

[dx100uk]

oh the judge will be pleased!!

 

issuing a speculative court claim whilst holding no documents nice!

[citizenB]

I then asked her

can you send me a copy of my CCA or any information that you hold for me regarding this so called debt.

The reply was we never had any documents for this they will still be with Welcome,

If we need them we will ask for them.

Hmm, rather disingenuous, if they have issued the claim, then they need the paperwork to back it up !!

Ok,

Issue date 14th October + 5 for service = 19 October + 14 days to acknowledge = 2nd November + 14 days to submit defence = 16 November.

 

 

 

 

IMHO, your defence should be along the line of - this is not a debt owed via the original agreement. Having VT'd the vehicle, Welcome have attempted to obtain money by saying there was damage to the vehicle when it fact the wear and tear is acceptable according to BVRLA Fair Wear & Tear guide on t'internet. [This is the voluntary code published by The British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association and allows everyone to know what to expect when returning a leased vehicle.]

 

When you asked for the copy of your agreement back in 2008/2009 (and they sent you someone else's) did you make that request via a proper CCA request that included the £1.00 statutory fee ?

 

You can mention that Welcome not only failed to comply with your s78 request, but sent you someone else's agreement (with their personal details on it).

 

You really must stay off the telephone. I doubt very much they will do anything about retrieving your Agreement until you make a proper request. I have linked you to the CPR 31.14 request that you need to send to the Solicitors.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387484-LEGAL-CPR-31.14-Request-Request-for-information-when-a-Claim-has-been-issued.

 

It needs reading carefully and amended where required. You need to send it Recorded delivery.

 

You can only ask for the following documents as these are mentioned in their claim.

 

1: the agreement

2: the default notice

3: the notice of assignment

4: statement of account showing how the balance claimed has accrued.

 

Do you have a copy of the RAC report and the photographs of the stone chip damage ? ?

[swt61]

oh the judge will be pleased!!

 

issuing a speculative court claim whilst holding no documents nice!

 

Am I correct in recalling somewhere it stated that if a debt has been sold on

or assigned to another dca they MUST have full documents regarding my account before taking legal action.

 

if they do not hold anything they are not allowed to then contact the original lender for these documents

as they should have been given at the time of assigning the debt to them ??

 

Thanks,

 

Simon