20 metre limit for PIP has been agreed!

[bedofweeds]

At last, the government have now finally decided on the distance that will be used to measure Enhanced mobility for PIP - it is agreed at 20 metres.

 

This will once and for all weed out those that can walk the width of a football field yet are deemed so disabled that their mobility is seriously compromised and were awarded the highest rate of DLA mobility element.

 

We are now going to see that only those that are truly the most disabled and vulnerable in society, mobility wise, being handed a free car.

 

I can't wait to hear the screams and shouts from those part time walking stick owners and crutch wobblers that you hardly ever see the bottom of the stick/crutch touching the floor. Those that appear to be on their last leg one minute and yet are able to run around with their children the next. What fun we are going to have.

 

As I have said before I will be the first in the queue to have my HRM & MRC taken off me when PIP goes national provided that the 10's of thousands of others do the same so that the money available in the PIP pot is directed only at those with the most serious of care needs and mobility issues.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...t-response.pdf

[45002]

At last, the government have now finally decided on the distance that will be used to measure Enhanced mobility for PIP - it is agreed at 20 metres.

 

This will once and for all weed out those that can walk the width of a football field yet are deemed so disabled that their mobility is seriously compromised and were awarded the highest rate of DLA mobility element.

 

We are now going to see that only those that are truly the most disabled and vulnerable in society, mobility wise, being handed a free car.

 

I can't wait to hear the screams and shouts from those part time walking stick owners and crutch wobblers that you hardly ever see the bottom of the stick/crutch touching the floor. Those that appear to be on their last leg one minute and yet are able to run around with their children the next. What fun we are going to have.

 

As I have said before I will be the first in the queue to have my HRM & MRC taken off me when PIP goes national provided that the 10's of thousands of others do the same so that the money available in the PIP pot is directed only at those with the most serious of care needs and mobility issues.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...t-response.pdf

They should have stuck with the old Mobility allowance scheme,No decision was made until you had been to see a doctor or a doctor had visited you at home....

 

It's the Tories fault for change the system in 1992 from MA to DLA and self certification,when Labour got into power they never really did anything about it...

 

So both main parties are to blame for the mess DLA has become.

Edited October 22, 2013 by 45002

[bedofweeds]

They should have stuck with the old Mobility allowance scheme,No decision was made until you had been to see a doctor or a doctor had visited you at home....

 

It's the Tories fault for change the system in 1992 from MA to DLA and self certification,when Labour got into power they never really did anything about it...

 

So both main parties are to blame for the mess DLA has become.

 

I couldn't agree with you more - both parties as well as the general public who saw it as a means to get more money and increase their income whilst on the sick!

 

I had a friend back in 1975 who was claiming under the old Mobility Allowance. Due to medication his mother took whilst pregnant, he was born with no limbs, just little stumps. He had to undergo regular medical assessments (presumably his limbs might have grown!) by a Doctor. He was tested from top to toe and was awarded the benefit. I remember him getting his first disability car, a Mark 2 Escort.

 

I could never understand why that system was ever changed, it became a free for all with self certification and an award for life. It worked well pre 1992.

[antone]

My view is that the only valid benefits are mine. Everyone else is a scrounger suckling at the public teat.

[osdset]

As I have said before I will be the first in the queue to have my HRM & MRC taken off me when PIP goes national provided that the 10's of thousands of others do the same

Just like pop stars and their dressing room demands, you had to insist on a rider.

[Consumer dude]

My view is that the only valid benefits are mine. Everyone else is a scrounger suckling at the public teat.

 

Are you an MP ?

[antone]

Are you an MP ?

 

No, but I'd be really good at it don't you think?

[45002]

My view is that the only valid benefits are mine. Everyone else is a scrounger suckling at the public teat.

 

Are you an MP ?

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Where would CAG be without Consumer dude

 

No, but I'd be really good at it don't you think?

 

http://www.omrlp.com/

 

Edited October 22, 2013 by 45002

[bedofweeds]

Just like pop stars and their dressing room demands, you had to insist on a rider.

 

Fairs fair though. How disabled is disabled to your way of thinking?

[worried33]

I cant see whats so good about having it as low as 20 metres.

 

so someone only able to walk 40metres isnt disabled? sorry thats a load of tripe.

 

The problem with how DLA got rewarded was not the walking distance used but the way they determined if people were virtually unable to walk, they over relied on diagnosis. Not many may agree with me but I think ESA/IB is a fairer assessment than DLA as they rely more on the medical than diagnosis which I do think is right, that doesnt mean I think its right they ignore evidence from other doctors but rather they dont see a diagnosis and just tick a box because of it like on DLA.

 

The width of a football pitch isnt that far either.

 

Also is things like the speed of walking still taken into account.

 

Is someone walking at 1 meter a minute deemed as able to walk as someone doing 30 metres a minute? So someone able to do a width of a football pitch in 50 minutes fails?

[RaeUK]

... being handed a free car. ...

Nobody gets a free car or ever have done.

[Sparks_]

Many people are going to become isolated in their homes due to this change, they will no longer qualify for HR mob so lose their car, yes there was a percentage milking the system but many more are now being penalised and going to become housebound!

[Nystagmite]

But at least those who can mobilise more than 20 meters will get something. Under DLA, I seem to remember you didn't if you could walk more than whatever the distance was. Unless you meet the LRM criteria.

[dyfed]

@bedofweeds are you some kind of DWP plant or just self centred and short sighted?

 

Many people like myself maybe able to walk a mile or more one day but the next can hardly get out of bed. To relish in others suffering is just wrong, its sick. So to judge people and wish them the torture of having there independence taken from them, the car, is down right disgusting.

 

If I could thumbs down your comments I would.

[bedofweeds]

@bedofweeds are you some kind of DWP plant or just self centred and short sighted?

 

Many people like myself maybe able to walk a mile or more one day but the next can hardly get out of bed. To relish in others suffering is just wrong, its sick. So to judge people and wish them the torture of having there independence taken from them, the car, is down right disgusting.

 

If I could thumbs down your comments I would.

 

Hang on, I too have been awarded HRM & MRC indefinitely, so you can't say that I'm not in the same boat as you! I tend to look at the bigger picture, not just my own misfortunes. The bigger picture is that the DLA criteria has over the past 21 years has gained more holes than the Titanic had.

 

It is right that the government go right back to the days pre 1992 when only the most severely and vulnerable were awarded a similar benefit - Mobility Allowance. Now you have kids with goodness knows what - ADHD etc - enabling mum and dad to get DLA for them. Then we have the arthritis claimants that are supposed to need 24 hour care and can't put one foot in front of another making claims. Then the ME - CFS claimants - what is all that about. None of those conditions or the effects of them would have seen the light of day pre 1992. There was one woman recently on he JK show who had a stick and appeared to need it to move 1 metre. She was described by JK as being severely disabled. Yet she managed to get up and out of her chair 5 times unaided and the stick went from the left hand to the right hand and back again unsure as to which side of her body needed assistance!

 

Why also have these claimants all of a sudden become so dependent on a car being provided for them when most people in this country have to buy their own and run it themselves. I don't have a mobility car. Independence means looking after and taking control of your own life, and not expecting the state to nanny you.

 

What do you think people did pre 1992 who couldn't afford a car? What do you think that people that work now full time on NMW if they can't afford a car?

 

Sorry, but you need to take a reality check. You may have had a 'soft' life for years, but unfortunately the time is now to realise how hard life can be.

 

I don't get any sick enjoyment in what I say. I look at the cold facts no matter how uncomfortable they are. There is a serious shortage of money in this country - life on benefits has been far too easy in the past.

 

Of course I may get PIP I may not. But I don't bleat about it being unfair. If we lose over £262 a week from our benefits DLA + Premiums so be it. I've lived through a hard life and had extremely hard times in the past, going back doesn't worry me just as long as those that are the most severely disabled and vulnerable receive help, I would willingly give up our £262 a week. I've been homeless, and poor in the past through alcohol. I've begged for money - so don't tell me that people will suffer if they lose their DLA.

Edited October 22, 2013 by bedofweeds

[bedofweeds]

Many people are going to become isolated in their homes due to this change, they will no longer qualify for HR mob so lose their car, yes there was a percentage milking the system but many more are now being penalised and going to become housebound!

 

That was the worst thing that the Tories did in 1992 was to provide cars. Now people have become far too reliant on the 'Motability car'.

 

Very few would be housebound if the car was taken off tem - they would survive and find a way around the problem - maybe buy their own like everybody else does?

[estellyn]

The question that needs to be asked is what are we trying to achieve by having a mobility benefit? Is it to enable people with mobility problems to get out and about? If so, what is a sensible limit to set of walking ability? What distance of walking determines that someone is severely disadvantaged by their poor mobility or not?

 

In my opinion, 20 metres does not really address the issue. OK so you can walk 30 metres - what is the distance to the nearest bus stop or convenience store? If you can't walk to a bus stop then you are reliant on lifts or paying for taxis, which puts you at a disadvantage. Obviously it is too costly and silly to take into account individual circumstances , so a reasonable distance needs to be set. 50 metres seems reasonable as a maximum of what someone can reliably and repeatedly walk the majority of the time as the distance to qualify for enhanced mobility - and I would have the standard rate set at 100 metres - people who can only walk 100 metres are still significantly disadvantaged. I would also have a mobility component of Attendance Allowance, as it shouldn't matter what age you are if you are disadvantaged by a mobility problem.

 

Ironically, I had to give up my motability car because I couldn't walk far enough - because parking is terrible where I live, and I couldn't even walk to where I'd parked the car 20 metres away on most days, so it just sit there, while we were paying for taxis.

 

Sadly welfare has become so bound up with morality that the purpose has been forgotten. Everyone is so concerned with materialism and seeing the 'spoils' of their work - the money, the prestige, the power - as some sort of indication of their worth and value in society, and by extension everyone else's worth in society. It is considered 'moral' to be working or to have worked (the longer, the more moral and worthy you are perceived to be). It used to be that those born with or who developed barriers to being able to take care of themselves financially were looked upon with compassion, with a 'there but the grace of god go I' attitude. Now these people are looked at with a 'it would never be me, I'm better than that' attitude. I've heard people referring to someone physically disabled and suffering PTSD after their accident and agreeing together that they would be 'pulling themselves together and getting a job and not sponging'. I feel sickened by the attitude that seems more and more prevalent in this country - a return to Victorian values where assistance would be given to the poor but only if they jump through hoops to prove they are one of the 'deserving' poor. Sadly we're getting to the point in this country where certain types of people will be considered underserving of life - well if they do not have food or shelter how are they expected to survive.

 

Compassion is going the way of the dodo - people are now valued on how much money they contribute to society or need from society - even being a public sector worker is now seen as 'lesser' as they take from the public purse. What sort of society do we live in????

 

Yesterday, on the way to a hospital appointment I lied to a taxi driver and said, when asked, that I worked. To say otherwise is now nearly as unacceptable as saying you have a criminal record.

[RaeUK]

... maybe buy their own like everybody else does?

I know, I know, I know. I shouldn't respond to bedoftrolls but some innocent person might fall for the disinformation. After all, repeat a lie often enough ...

How somebody awarded HRM chooses to allocate that funding is entirely up to them. Some choose to use it to fund a loan to pay for a car that becomes their property. Others decide to use the Motability scheme as a means of leasing a vehicle that they may never own but at least offers to minimise the risk of motoring. Others choose to use the funding to subsidise taxis etc.

Whatever they choose to do, however they choose to do it, they are paying for their own vehicle, the use of a vehicle or to hire a vehicle with their own money. Nobody has bought them a car.

*sigh*

[antone]

Hang on, I too have been awarded HRM & MRC indefinitely, so you can't say that I'm not in the same boat as you! I tend to look at the bigger picture, not just my own misfortunes. The bigger picture is that the DLA criteria has over the past 21 years has gained more holes than the Titanic had.

 

It is right that the government go right back to the days pre 1992 when only the most severely and vulnerable were awarded a similar benefit - Mobility Allowance. Now you have kids with goodness knows what - ADHD etc - enabling mum and dad to get DLA for them. Then we have the arthritis claimants that are supposed to need 24 hour care and can't put one foot in front of another making claims. Then the ME - CFS claimants - what is all that about. None of those conditions or the effects of them would have seen the light of day pre 1992. There was one woman recently on he JK show who had a stick and appeared to need it to move 1 metre. She was described by JK as being severely disabled. Yet she managed to get up and out of her chair 5 times unaided and the stick went from the left hand to the right hand and back again unsure as to which side of her body needed assistance!

 

Why also have these claimants all of a sudden become so dependent on a car being provided for them when most people in this country have to buy their own and run it themselves. I don't have a mobility car. Independence means looking after and taking control of your own life, and not expecting the state to nanny you.

 

What do you think people did pre 1992 who couldn't afford a car? What do you think that people that work now full time on NMW if they can't afford a car?

 

Sorry, but you need to take a reality check. You may have had a 'soft' life for years, but unfortunately the time is now to realise how hard life can be.

 

I don't get any sick enjoyment in what I say. I look at the cold facts no matter how uncomfortable they are. There is a serious shortage of money in this country - life on benefits has been far too easy in the past.

 

Of course I may get PIP I may not. But I don't bleat about it being unfair. If we lose over £262 a week from our benefits DLA + Premiums so be it. I've lived through a hard life and had extremely hard times in the past, going back doesn't worry me just as long as those that are the most severely disabled and vulnerable receive help, I would willingly give up our £262 a week. I've been homeless, and poor in the past through alcohol. I've begged for money - so don't tell me that people will suffer if they lose their DLA.

 

I think I already said this:

 

My view is that the only valid benefits are mine. Everyone else is a scrounger suckling at the public teat.

 

I should add that I am not currently in receipt of any benefits, so I am not personally guilty of suckling at the public teat. My wife supports us for now. So I guess I'm guilty of suckling at...you know, it really is as much fun as it sounds.

 

I was about to apologise for lowering the tone of this thread, but actually, I don't think I did.

[sillygirl1]

My nephew cannot walk that far unaided without crutches, even hanging onto furniture, he has had a load of assessments and treatment at Stoke Mandeville and even they are flummoxed (lovely word that!) by some of the bizarre reasoning ATOS come up with in their assessments.

 

I can fortunately walk but if I am carrying a bag of shopping I have to keep stopping - but at least I am not claiming PIP yet - have to go to the local assessment flat next week to see what 'aids' they can give me - If I have to buy any I can't afford anything over £5 for the forseeable future.

[Invalidation]

Just remember the words:

 

Repeatedly, Reliably or Safely

[bedofweeds]

Just remember the words:

 

Repeatedly, Reliably or Safely

 

I agree, but then if you take those three words literally everybody is going to have their own interpretation. Are they defined in law? If not why not?

 

The day they put those words into the PIP regs totally devalued what PIP stands for.

 

No doubt there will be countless Tribunal hearings in the future as people try to define those three words in the context of their own circumstances.

 

My way of looking at it should be 'you can or you can't'. Can you walk 20 metres Yes/No.

[Invalidation]

I agree, but then if you take those three words literally everybody is going to have their own interpretation. Are they defined in law? If not why not?

 

The day they put those words into the PIP regs totally devalued what PIP stands for.

 

No doubt there will be countless Tribunal hearings in the future as people try to define those three words in the context of their own circumstances.

 

My way of looking at it should be 'you can or you can't'. Can you walk 20 metres Yes/No.

 

But many people can walk 20 metres at some time of the day but not another.

I certainly can, but couldnt do it twice as I'd simply keel over in pain. So where does that leave me Oh wise sage?

[Nystagmite]

Then it's reasonable to say no. It's something you must be able to repeat without pain, etc.

[bedofweeds]

But many people can walk 20 metres at some time of the day but not another.

I certainly can, but couldnt do it twice as I'd simply keel over in pain. So where does that leave me Oh wise sage?

 

In the first place you would have to prove that you couldn't do it twice a day with medical evidence.

Take you back to the origins of DLA and PIP - Mobility Allowance. Given what you say - you wouldn't qualify as under those regulations you had to show that walking 20 metres would be impossible at any time.