Ashbourne Management Services - Cancellation problems

[Carol12]

Hi, I am also having awful time fighting with Ashbourne management services.

 

I enrolled my 4 year old son in a karate class and AMSL deal with the 'memberships'. The case is (in a nutshell) that my son's GP has signed him off from the class as he's due to have an operation in his left thumb.

 

Despite sending two letters explaining the situation and enclosing originals of the doctor's letters they are refusing to cancel my son's classes. I've spoken to them on the phone after receiving the first replied from them and they are absolutely absurd.

 

When I sent the first letter they only agreed to freeze my son's enrolment for two months rather than cancel it, then I sent another letter from the doctor to them explaining why he's been advice not to take part int his activity and that I do not wish to freeze the 'membership' but to cancel it and they replied refusing to cancel it.

 

They are now calling me and sending me texts saying I need to pay x amount of money.

 

The other issue I have with them is that when I first enrolled my son I signed the contract based on the facilities and location when we first tried the class. Few weeks later they moved to another location, facilities are no longer the same, e.g no longer parking facilities, no longer waiting area for the parents, really small studio with no much light compared to the previous one and very inconvenient location for us.

 

I have contacted the trading standard and they have advised to send another letter and call them again if they still refuse to cancel the membership.

 

This has been a complete nightmare and unpleasant situation. Do you have any advice? What else can I do apart from contacting the trading standard?

 

Thanks,

Edited October 21, 2013 by slick132
used paragraphs so your post can be read easily

[slick132]

Hi Carol and welcome to CAG

 

I've spaced your post above using paragraphs so it's easier to read.

 

Your post has also been moved into your own thread that you can use from now on.

 

I'll reply fully to your post shortly.

 

[slick132]

Hi Carol,

 

If you haven't already done so, I suggest you cancel the DD mandate to stop further payments. I think AMSL have no right to refuse to cancel the m/ship if your GP has said YS must stop the classes.

 

1. Please confirm roughly what the GP's letter said about YS needing to stop the classes.

 

2. Please let us know what you said to AMSL when you wrote about YS's thumb and your need to stop him attending further. Just tell us the main points, not every word.

 

3. If AMSL replied to you in writing when they refused to cancel, please let us know what they said in each letter.

 

I can draft you a letter to send to AMSL.

 

I doubt you need to rely on the change of location, but we'll include brief details about the change of facilities, parking and viewing area.

 

[Carol12]

Hi Slick, thanks for your reply.

 

Yes I have cancelled the DD but by the time I cancelled it they had already charged £70 - they started to charge two months before my son started the first class.

 

1. Gp's letter says: Xxxx has a left trigger thumb, which is painful, and he is due to have surgical intervention for flexor sheath release. Due to Xxxxxx's thumb problem it is recommended that he does not take part in this activity.

 

2. First letter sent to AMS with Gp's letter enclosed said: First, he has been signed off by his doctor as he is due to have an operation in his hand, therefore, any activity such as martial arts must stop immediately. Document from the GP enclosed. Second, the academy has changed their location without informing me whatsoever. The current studio is lot smaller, much more uncomfortable waiting area for the parents and it is located in a very inconvenient area for me. The current location has not parking and the area is restricted for parking. The academy has also failed in providing the correct size for my son's uniform making us again very uncomfortable with this class. I am really disappointed and unhappy with all these changes and challenges this class is presenting, making it inconvenient for us to continue going in the future and definitively not the facilities and convenience when I first signed up the contract. The previous location had free parking facilities and the studio was big, bright and with comfortable waiting areas for parents.

 

2A. Second letter sent to AMS with second Gp's letter enclosed: A case has been filed with the local trading standard, which assessed the case as breach of contract by Ashbourne Management Services under reference number xxxxx. In order to put things right, we require immediate cancelation of this contract and a refund of £70 which was deducted from my account incorrectly. The Trading standards also advised me to allow you 5 days to respond to this letter; otherwise further actions will be taken against Ashbourne Management Services.

 

3. First replied from AMS said: we are happy yo freeze your membership for a period of 2 months. We will be looking for your next payment on 1st dec 13

3A. Second replied from AMS said: we are unable to cancel this membership based on the medical letter provided. We can confirm he is a member of 'little dragons' which has no contact whatsoever so his condition should not affect him attending the class.

 

That's basically what's happened so far. Their latest replied is so absurd, of course they have contact, they do punches and arm work. I can't understand how can they be so rigid and inflexible, this a kids class not a gym. The owner of the academy has also been very unreasonable and does not want to get involved in this, she has always directed me to contact AMS like she has nothing to do with the class. She was very enthusiastic when selling the class but then turns her back and all she says is contact AMS, which is miles and miles away from us and the actual academy.

AMS has also started to send me texts and phone calls demanding money.

 

I really appreciate your advice and input in this.

Regards

C

[slick132]

I'll come back on this shortly but I'm glad to see you have cancelled the DD mandate.

 

That'll stop them taking any more, at least.

 

Gotta go in for me tea now but I'll be back out soon, if I'm allowed.

 

[slick132]

Hi Carol,

 

For starters, no more phone calls to AMSL. The calls will get you nothing, except frustrated !

 

Trading Standards opinion is not really going to help in your case. TS will do nothing themselves about this.

 

The GP's note is adequate to justify a cancellation and AMSL cannot over-rule the GP's opinion as to what YS should, or should not, do.

 

The change of facility location is also grounds for you to cancel given the differences re parking and parents' waiting/viewing area.

 

So, we can help you in getting AMSL to cancel the agreement and desist from making further demands which I'm sure they'll continue to make.

 

I don't know if you'll be able to demand a refund of the fees paid so far and, to enable me to consider this further, please let me know :-

 

1. When you signed for the lessons.

 

2. When YS was due to start his lessons.

 

3. What is the monthly fee.

 

[Carol12]

Hi Slick, sorry just seen this as I didn't get notification I had a replied. Anyway, I signed for the lessons on 26/6/2013. My son was due to start on the second week of September. Monthly fee is £35 but they also charge £100 for enrolment.

 

I have prepared a letter and wonder if you can take a look before I send it?

 

Thanks so much

[slick132]

Hi Carol,

 

Post up your letter, no probs.

 

Who charged the £100 Enrolement Fee, the Karate Instructor or AMSL ?

 

Also, I'm interested that they took 2 monthly fees before the classes even started. You've paid out £170 in fess and YS hasn't even had the chance to throw an opponent to the ground !!

 

I'm now wondering if you should seek any refund.

 

To enable me to consider the matter better, i'd like to see the agreement you signed with AMSL and please see my PM to you.

 

[Carol12]

Hi Slick

 

Just emailed you with contract, T&C's and letter I draft.

 

AMS have taken £70 via direct debit but I did not pay for the £100 as I agreed with the karate instructor (owner of the academy) that I would pay the £100 on the first day of the class which was in September 2013. The £100 was due to pay directly to the karate instructor (owner of SMA)

 

Regards and thanks so much

 

Carol

[slick132]

Thanks Carol and I'll look at the agreement when I go to my basement PC in a while.

 

[slick132]

Hi Carol and I've now had a good look at the m/ship agreement.

 

The agreement said payments would start from 1st August even though the classes weren't due to start until September.

 

The agreement also said your first payment was to be £135 payable by card on 26th June which included the £100 Enrolment Fee. Are you certain you didn't pay the £100 by card in June.

 

Re the draft letter you sent me, it can be shortened. Firstly though, I'm not sure you can ask for a refund of the £70 fees as you signed agreeing to start payments in August. Can you say why you tell AMSL that the Karate Instructor he confirmed the first payment was due in September.

 

I will then redraft the letter to send to AMSL.

 

[Carol12]

Hi Slick, after signing the contract on 26/6, I changed my mind and called the owner of SMAA the very the same day to say that I wanted to cancel because I realized It would not be a good activity for my son to do because of his hand. She said it was too late and I could not cancel now. After arguing with her for couple of days I realized there was no point to talk to her. The only thing she agreed was to 'freeze' it until September and confirmed to me on a text message that nothing was going to be charged until Sep. In any case there were no classes in August.

I left the issue like that until September when I took my son to the only class he did when I then decided to talk to our GP.

 

Thanks so much

C

[slick132]

Hi Carol and your last sentence above has helped me decide how I think you should proceed.

 

You may not have wanted to start paying before the classes started but that's what you agreed to when you signed the agreement in June. Also, the fact that YS attended one class weakens your case to seek any refund.

 

I suggest you write to AMSL as follows:-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

SMAA Martial Arts classes for [son's name]

 

Further to my letter of 15th October, I write about my cancellation of the membership agreement signed on 26th June 2013. The matter is already under investigation by Trading Standards under their reference 13/00836/COMPLT.

 

You already have the letter from my son's GP confirming that he should not attend any further sessions due to the medical condition affecting his hand. The GP's advice is that he is to have surgery and cannot attend classes for the foreseeable future.

 

That is why I will not agree to your suggestion that the membership is suspended.

 

Although the GP's advice is sufficient grounds for me to cancel, I also have complaints about the relocation of the classes. Since I signed the agreement in June, the classes were relocated to a less preferable venue. There is no parking at the venue itself and parking nearby is difficult. The studio is smaller and the waiting area for parents is nowhere near as nice as the previous venue.

 

Accordingly, I require that you accept my cancellation.

 

I have no idea why DD payments commenced before the classes started but the £70 already paid covers the one session attended and a months notice to cancel.

 

Please confirm that you accept the money already paid in full settlement of all sums due from me under the agreement.

 

If you make any further demands in this matter, I will make a formal complaint to The OFT.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[Carol12]

Thank you so much Slick, the letter is very good. The only thing i'm a bit reluctant is giving up the £70 just like that. In previous letters I have asked them firmly for a refund, which I think I am entitle to, so I shouldn't really give them a month notice? I understand the fact that because my son went to one class we should pay for the month but also that was the day I realized they were relocated and new facilities were not convenient/below expectations. I will use your letter anyway as it is more direct/clearer.

 

Thanks again!

[slick132]

Hi Carol,

 

I appreciate what you are saying but I see no reason for you to expect the £70 to be refunded.

 

It is of course your prerogative to write the AMSL as you wish. I am just saying would I think is the right course of action for your case.

 

In the past, I have been quite happy to suggest seeking a refund and, indeed, helped a CAGger take direct court action against AMSL. He won.

 

But, in your case, I am more interested in getting you released from the remainder of the payments and I think what you have paid so far will help you get the cancellation.

 

The choice is yours and keep us informed.

 

[Carol12]

Thank you Slick, I sent the letter yesterday, I kept consistent with asking for the refund although I know it won't take me anywhere as you said. I'm expecting a negative answer from them but I will take this to the end and I am prepare to take them to court specially because I think the owner of the academy has also acted very wrongly on this.

What sort of help did you give the other CAGger when he took AMSL to court?

Do you think I should wait for the trading standards's help or should I just take them to court straight away?

They of course keep sending letters, phone calls and text messages demanding money.

 

Regards

[slick132]

Hi Carol,

 

Trading Standards may have offered you their opinion but I very much doubt they can help you in any way with direct action against AMSL.

 

The case I helped with where the user took AMSL to court and they backed down - it was probably 5 years ago and a lot has changed since then.

 

If AMSL are contacting you every day or too often, you should send them a Harassment Letter from the Collection section of the Library - see the Green Button at the top of the forum.

 

[Carol12]

Hi Slick, thanks for your last reply. I just spoken to the Trading Standards and they have advised me to send AMSL a letter saying something like this: As far as I am concern this membership is now canceled as I am following your terms and conditions, I have done everything to try to resolve this and I have provided evidence that my son has been signed off from this class. The only way they will get money from me is in front of a judge and so If they want to pursue they'll have to take me to court. Also mention that if they continue to send letters, text messages and calling me I would consider it harassment and will also take action against that.

 

I was wondering if you have a template that would help say that in a better more direct/strong way?

 

Many thanks

C

[slick132]

Hi Carol,

 

There's no such template but, if needed, I can put that into a draft for you.

 

However, I suggest we wait for them to respond to the letter you referred to in post #16 above.

 

So we can see what you said to them, can you please post up a copy of that letter.

 

[Carol12]

Hi Slick, I just emailed you the letter I sent to them last week. I think they are not going to reply as I received today one of their letters asking for the money and threatening to take action if I don't pay in the next 7 days. So I think they are just going to ignore it. That's why I called the office of trading standards today because they are just ignoring everything and they are going to be sending those letters demanding money, phone calls and text messages.

 

Let me know what you think

 

Thanks

C

[slick132]

Hi Carol,

 

Give them time to respond to your letter.

 

They are entitled to write to you asking for payments but you can certainly demand that they stop calling you or sending text msgs. Adapt the Harassment by Phone letter in the Collections section of the Library if you need to send this.

 

Please keep a log of all phone calls and text msgs.

 

[Carol12]

Thank you Slick. Would you help me anyway in putting a draft together with what the trading standards told me yesterday?:

 

Carol12

Edited November 5, 2013 by slick132

[slick132]

Yes Carol,

 

I'll do this later when I have more time.

 

[slick132]

Hi Carol,

 

I've unapproved the attachment in post #20 as it referred to YS by name and included the m/ship reference number. No need to re-post it for now.

 

I've just been back through what Trading Standards said to you yesterday and the rest of the thread. I see no point at all in writing another letter to AMSL so soon after the first.

 

Wait for them to reply to it and we'll deal with their response as necessary. If they fail to respond within 14 days or they make repeated demands, let us know.

 

[Carol12]

Thank you Slick. I'm pretty sure that they won't reply as with the previous letters they replied immediately. They are sending me daily text messages and a letter or two a week. That's why I want to have my letter ready to send because I know I will have to send it eventually.

Let me know if you could help me with the draft.

Kind regards

C