HFC Collection Charge

[Figgydoody]

Hello all!

 

I was wondering whether I can reclaim a collection charge on the same basis as credit card penalty charges with interest in restitution?

 

It is on an old credit card that I had with the dreaded HFC.

 

They applied the charge, in the sum of around 2k, well just shy of that.

 

The charge was added in 2006.

 

The debt has been sold on as well.

 

The way I am looking at this is the collection charge never formed any part of an agreement with them,

added to the fact that the agreement is entirely unenforceable.

 

All advice appreciated!

 

Figgydoody.

[dx100uk]

very doubtful if outside 6yrs

 

was this a secured loan?

 

dx

[Figgydoody]

No, it was a credit card. Why would reclaiming the charge be doubtful if it's outside of 6yrs?

[dx100uk]

limitations act

 

no go sadly.

 

dx

[Figgydoody]

Why would the collection charge be subject to the Limitations Act, when people claim penalty charges on their credit cards pre-dating the 6yr period? This is a sum they added unilaterally without there even being any provision for it in their very questionable terms and conditions, so why would the issues of fraud, concealment or mistake not be relevant?

[ims21]

You wouldn't use fraud or concealment but you could use mistake which is the section which those claiming back old charges use.

 

To go back further than six years will involve court action (although they may settle before the actual hearing).

 

You may find this interesting.....

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/press_release_attachments/HFC-requirements.pdf

[Figgydoody]

I was just covering the different grounds of s.32, but I thought it would in all likelihood be mistake like the penalty charge issue. It's only slightly outside the 6yr period so maybe they would settle, but I'm fine with issuing a claim if needs be.

 

So, that leads me to my next question, what interest rate should I claim at, as I want to claim interest in restitution? I hate HFC with a passion so if 400% is possible that would be great!lol

 

I will have a look at the link-thank you.

 

Figgy.

[Figgydoody]

Thank you Ims for the link, that is extremely useful, and certainly something to which I will refer when I write to HFC! Some of their practices were (probably still are) absolutely outrageous, and the 'collection charge' was definitely a nice little earner for them, even though they had no legal basis for adding it in the first place!

[Figgydoody]

Hi Ims,

 

I have just done a quick calculation on the compound interest spreadsheet entering the date for the collection charge as 15/04/2006 claiming up to today's date. I input the sum £2000 (it's just shy of this) and put the interest rate at 29.9% as I've seen that as a rate to claim at on here for interest in restitution and it's come up with the sum £14, 313. I have just picked myself up off the floor, and wondered if that looks about right to you?

 

Thanks, Figgy.

[citizenB]

B>>>> Hell, I picked myself up as well.. I would suspect if you were to put a claim in for that, they would fight you tooth and nail. On top of which it is outside the small claim limit of £10,000 which would leave you vulnerable to costs if they should defend and win !!

 

I thought I had seen slick132 advise around 22-25% for interest, I will go and check.

[Figgydoody]

Hi CB,

 

The amount is actually around £1500 I have just checked the file, but nevertheless it would still be a considerable sum of money! Yes, I take your point re the Small Claims limit. It would be worth reducing the interest claimed to bring it within that 10k ceiling. The good thing is, I did a DPA request back in 2007, so I've got all the paperwork for the account, which includes numerous penalty charges as well!lol

 

Figgy.

[slick132]

Hi Figgy,

 

Using a figure of 24.9% for compound restitutionary interest is perhaps easier to justify.

 

I don't understand how you're talking about a one-off penalty charge of £2000. Normally, credit charge penalties tend to be between £12 and £40 each time.

 

Can you explain exactly what this £2000 is described as, on the paperwork that you have.

 

You also refer to "numerous penalty charges as well". Have you added these up or put them on a spreadsheet.

 

[Figgydoody]

Hi Slick,

 

The 'Collection Charge' was a special little parting gift that HFC would levy to defaulted credit card accounts, and it was calculated as a proportion of the balance. I am surprised you're not familiar with it. Think of it as one big penalty charge!lol They have been rebuked for levying such unlawful charges but this was common practice back in the day!

 

There are numerous penalty charges as well that they levied, so I plan to claim these also.

 

Figgy.

[slick132]

Hi Figgy,

 

I've not come across this but other Site Team know about it.

 

If you put the one-off charge on the compound int't spready at 24.9%, what are the figures.

 

Can you also confirm the figures for the other penalty charges when they're put onto the spreadsheet.

 

[Figgydoody]

Hi Slick,

 

I have put the collection charge into the compound interest spreadsheet, the charge was levied in 2006. so using 24.9% as the interest rate it brings the total sum to £8426.81, (as it was nearer the £1500 sum not £2000 as originally stated).

 

So, if I write to them today, I gather I include these sums in the form of the spreadsheet to accompany my covering letter and see what happens?

 

I am still going through all the statements/paperwork re the penalty charges but there seems to be quite a few! They are in the £20, £25 range, although the cheeky so and so's added £40 as a default fee!

 

Thanks, Figgy.

[dx100uk]

yep go for it.

 

theres nothing to stop you including the PENALTY charges in the same sheet BTW.

 

they are all PENALTIES, so can be one claim.

 

as you can see from my bit left

I hate HFC with zest

and wonder with amazement at how they ever got away with it all.

 

dx

[Figgydoody]

Hi DX,

 

I would have put them all in one spreadsheet, however given that I am going for interest in restitution on both the collection charge and penalty charges, it would take the claim over the Small Claims Limit, and I like the idea of giving them more work to do!lol

 

HFC have to be one of the worst companies I have ever encountered, I can't really go into all the detail of things they got up to, but let's just say they have a very peculiar relationship with the truth!

 

So is that it as far as what I need to send them today, the covering letter, and the spreadsheet with the brief details on it?

 

Figgy.

[dx100uk]

yes ofcourse silly me

that's already been mentioned above..doh!

 

yep SOC + covering letter.

 

theres always PM if you have insider knowledge shall we say.

 

could be added to what I already have on them.

 

dx

[slick132]

Before you send them any reclaim letter, include the smaller penalty chgs on the spready and let us know what figures you get.

 

If the figure comes out above the £10K Small Claims ceiling, see what the spready shows with an int't rate of 19.9%.

 

[Figgydoody]

Hi DX and Slick,

 

Yes, will be happy to pass on info in due course, just have some things to do first!

 

What is the rationale behind putting all the charges (collection and penalty) on one spreadsheet and adding a lower interest rate if it comes to more than 10k? Why would I want to claim a smaller sum from them, given that they made my life hell?!

 

Figgy.

[slick132]

I'm just looking at all options.

 

Reclaiming charges is not as straightforward with some banks as it is with others.

 

See here where Womble lost a case against Halifax - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?388144-Halifax-Credit-Card-Unfair-Treatment-amp-BCOBS&p=4372075&viewfull=1#post4372075

 

Womble lost a case against Santander a few days earlier.

 

If the charges are all penalties, it makes sense that you'd reclaim them all in one go. However, that may put the claim onto Fast Track where the exposure to costs can be far greater.

 

[Figgydoody]

Hi Slick,

 

Yes, I take your point that it is wise to look at all options. I know these situations have to be approached with a cool head, but to say I'm seething about what HFC has done is an understatement!lol But of course I can't let my anger be a substitute for logicality in finding the best way to deal with this.

 

What is the situation with reclaiming from HFC, do you have any info?

 

I will have a look a Womble's case, thanks for the link.

 

Figgy.

[dx100uk]

HFC certainly cough on PPI nicely with little trouble

 

as for historic charges outside of 6yrs

I don't think anyone has done that

nor taken them to court to try.

 

there have been PENALTY charges linked to a PPI claim refunded I think.

but as those were directly linked to the fact that had the PPI not been there,

they would of not have been levied, so that's why they coughed on them being outside of 6yrs.

 

this will be interesting!!

 

dx

[Figgydoody]

Hi DX,

 

I think it is going to be interesting because HFC didn't like me very much, they thought I was something of a trouble maker!lol And no doubt they are thinking I have gone away, what a lovely little surprise it will be in the next few days for them when they get my letter!lol

 

Figgy.

[dx100uk]

yes same here

 

I got them on 5 or 6 PPI reclaims dating back to the 1980's some of them!

 

so did IMS21

 

4 of 6 they refunded with a little wriggling at the start.

 

2 went to the FOS

 

one of those [the biggest one] was upheld

and that really upset them to the tune of many £1000's

took them months to actually do it

and I them got them on the extra 8% int

as they thought they could get away with just paying the 8% from the first date of the claim

some 18mts before

 

sad they got nailed on that too.

 

that left 1 claim with the FOS.

 

it was only very small and dated to a time they claimed they were not covered by GISC or anything

 

so eventually I let it ride.

 

dx