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Stopped in a bay and no clear evidence


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I am a courier on my own and I'm writing because my situation with the fines are clearly damaging my work. The last fine that was received in the category Parking Ticket issued by Civil Enforcement Officer AND SENT BY POST .

In Camden Town Council I was sitting inside my van stopped in a bay of "Resident Permit Parking Only" waiting for a customer to deliver some beds when in a while a traffic warden approached and started to pass me a ticket.

I wasn't doing anything (loading/unloading) at the moment

I thought the officer would never pass me a ticket in this circumstances as I was inside the van and I could move it straight in any moment.

Well I thought wrong because after a few minutes she had the ticket in hand ready to give me but when she confronted me with this situation I moved my van out of the place not even giving her chance to take the evidence pictures or giving me in hand the sheet.

After one month of this event happened I get the PCN to pay 130 pounds and 4 evidences photos which is not clear that my van appears.

 

Contravention description - Parked in a residents` or shared use parking place or zone without either clearly displaying a valid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place, or without payment of the parking charge - shared use bay

 

 

What can I do in this situation ?

 

Thanks in advance

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Well I would lie

 

And it would achieve nothing. By lying, you would be foregoing any other defence, such as loading/unloading etc , since apparently you weren't there in the first place. If you maintained the lie as far as adjudication, the first question the adjudicator is going to ask is whether you were there. For all we know the CEO may have made a note of the tax disc or a description of the driver.

 

Outright lying invariably comes back to bite you. It's not good advice.

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It's not polite to criticise other posters bluntly but the recommendation to deny the event must be the most stupid and reprehensible comment on a forum ever - apart from being an incitement to criminal conduct. To have then tried to justify it makes it only worse. It is a criminal offence to make a false statement to a parking adjudicator, maximum fine £5000.

 

It seems that the 'victim' of the PCN had only himself to blame and is unaware that driving away in attempt to evade a PCN since March 2008 is foolish and ineffective as it will result in just such a PCN.

 

If this 'victim' does seriously intend to challenge the PCN he should initially ask the council for copies of all photographs taken (will get better pictures than already provided) and ask for a copy of the CEO's notebook entry relating to the issuing of his PCN.

 

If it ends up being this victim's word against that of the CEO then the CEO could and should win the argument.

 

There is action in progress elsewhere right now where it is proven that a dishonest CEO has falsified the contravention evidence and will probably be deservedly in line for dismissal. Something to cheer about. No-one on this forum should be in the same mould as that.

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......and you are on the moderation team!!

 

 

:jaw:

 

Is that supposed to make me some kind of saint or something.

 

If I was to walk into the centre of the pitch at Wembley on cup final day and assault the referee in front of a 100k crowd, I would plead not guilty and let them find me guilty.

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It would be silly to deny being there - they have your vehicle make and registration, the CEO notes and possibly photos. One false statement like that and you can forget any chance of winning an appeal.

 

Better to put forward mitigating circumstances and hope for a reasonable decision. At the end of the day, you did the deed, so it might be that the charge stands - that's the way it goes.

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Is that supposed to make me some kind of saint or something.

 

If I was to walk into the centre of the pitch at Wembley on cup final day and assault the referee in front of a 100k crowd, I would plead not guilty and let them find me guilty.

 

There is a difference in between pleading not guilty and lying!! You could be not guilty for many reasons lying but saying you were not at the location when you clearly were is blatantly a lie and if you did that in Court you would be guilty of perjury. Lying in representations is a criminal offence so as a member of the 'site team' is it really a good idea to be seen to be encouraging someone looking for advice to commit a criminal offence??

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And the wardens, mid-management and top monkey's of various LAs scrub up whiter than white......

 

If a ticket has been issued fraudulently then there would be grounds for appeal, that is what the forum is here to advise on. Its not here to encourage those that where given valid tickets to pervert the course of justice!!

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I will concede on this one, of course, a ticket has been received by post so they know who you are, that bit didn't sink in as you also say 'they can't identify the van'. That was the bit in my mind.

 

If they have sent you a ticket, then they must have identified the van and the reg or you wouldn't have got a ticket.

 

As for mitigating circumstances, how can there be any, if you were there legitimately you wouldn't have driven off when approached.

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As for mitigating circumstances, how can there be any, if you were there legitimately you wouldn't have driven off when approached.

 

Not necessarily. Mitigating circumstances would include the need to stop somewhere to carry out business, without blocking traffic flow. It doesn't mean the contravention did not occur, just that there are circumstances which could be taken into account. It's not a particularly strong case, but the option is there to appeal.

 

He can explain driving off of course - to avoid the unnecessary issue of a PCN. The fact that he drove away could even go in his favour, as he was apparently complying with the CEO's point of view.

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Not necessarily. Mitigating circumstances would include the need to stop somewhere to carry out business, without blocking traffic flow. It doesn't mean the contravention did not occur, just that there are circumstances which could be taken into account. It's not a particularly strong case, but the option is there to appeal.

 

He can explain driving off of course - to avoid the unnecessary issue of a PCN. The fact that he drove away could even go in his favour, as he was apparently complying with the CEO's point of view.

 

I want to thank everyone for sharing your opinions regarding this threat :clap2:

 

It seems fair enough do the challenge on that point of view. I was aware of the risks that could happen to me but at the same time I think that the CEO did not act in good faith because I was inside the van and could leave at any time.

In these situations I consider that I am stopped and not parked as I often have the engine on

 

In this case I had things to unloading, but I didn't do anything but If I was unloading my van should I had a best chance to justify the fine? to be honest when I face areas where is completely impossible to unload I know I always run the risk of getting a ticket and I will always have to make this thing of cat and mouse game

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I wouldn't advise that you put these things in your appeal. If you write and say the CEO was not acting in good faith, that won't look good. And if you claim you were unloading, they won't believe it.

 

I think you should just tell them the story of what happened, and ask them if they will cancel the PCN on this occasion. Explain that you had to stop and that was the safest place - they might let you off.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I wouldn't advise that you put these things in your appeal. If you write and say the CEO was not acting in good faith, that won't look good. And if you claim you were unloading, they won't believe it.

 

I think you should just tell them the story of what happened, and ask them if they will cancel the PCN on this occasion. Explain that you had to stop and that was the safest place - they might let you off.

 

 

I appealed in the ground of mitigating circumstances and they have replied me with this email

 

"You have disputed this Penalty Charge Notice on the grounds that you were loading/unloading from your vehicle. There is an exemption for loading/unloading, but this should be necessary and relatively continuous. In this case the Civil Enforcement Officer saw no such activity occurring and you have not supplied any evidence of the loading/unloading you state was taking place at the time."

 

This response makes no sense but that means that I basically lost this case right?

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The o/p did state in the first instance 'van stopped in a bay of "Resident Permit Parking Only" waiting for a customer to deliver some beds'. Can you get some corroborating correspondence from them as it would swing things in your favour. It would be worth getting the full address of delivery on a docket with signature as then you have proof of third party involvement as well.

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It might help, but I don't think it resolves the main issue, which is that while there, the vehicle was not being loaded. The council have drawn attention to this by pointing out that loading should be "relatively continuous" and that the CEO didn't see any take place. I'm doubtful this can be won with proof that goods were being delivered.

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