PCN from LONDON PARKING SOLUTIONS

[Mollierose8]

God I love this site, helped me out a lot in the past.

 

I was on Jury Service

- their car park was full so I parked opposite in a huge practically empty carpark midweek (pub & 1/2 dozen shops)

 

put my disabled badge up and was gone for several hours.

 

Got out of the car at 9.35 (cos I looked at my watch) and got a ticket at 09.43!

 

The reason stated for fine is 'Left Site Not in Premises' pay £60 within 14 days or £100.

 

By reading these messages it seems the advice is to ignore it.

....I was so tempted to pay it to get it out of the way but I can't really afford it

- should I write to them and appeal it says 'all cases will be considered on their individual merits' .

 

.. Any advice would be good as I don't want to end up with a £100 fine.

[renegadeimp]

It is NOT a fine. At all. In any way.

[Mollierose8]

Well that's succinct! - so ignore it? if its not a fine what is it? . Thanks for replying - feeling better already.

[renegadeimp]

You could appeal it, so your back is covered.

 

What signs were in the parking area?

[Mollierose8]

When I came back - quite a few signs - and the disabled icon had a line through it - so it looks like I been caught bang to rights.

[renegadeimp]

What rights? There is no authority to charge on private land by a third party company.

 

Any road marking etc have no legal standings and a disabled badge has no legal standing on private land.

 

 

Put simply, you are falling for their tricks.

[Mollierose8]

OK then.....I'll ignore it.

[ploddertom]

Moved to Private Parking Forum

[Nev Met]

Whilst Blue Badges do not have any legal standing on private land the BPA Ltd CoP (version 3) places certain obligations on operators where concessions are made for disabled people

 

"16.5 If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people, if a vehicle displays a valid Blue Badge you must not issue it with parking charge notices".

 

So long as there was some indication of a concession (any concession) for disabled motorists then paragraph 16.5 kicks in.

 

My advice to you would be not to respond to the notice given at the time but to wait until the registered keeper gets a Notice through the post (courtesy of the DVLA)

 

Just as a final note,

the issue of the Notice at the time was only minutes after you'd parked up and the fact that it's for leaving the site

suggests that the parking attendant stood there and watched you leave.

 

If you can dig out the case of Ron Ibbotson V VCS the District Judge made it clear that landowners

and their agents have a duty to mitigate their losses and was extremely critical of the parking attendant

who did precisely the same as what appears to have happened in your case.

[dx100uk]

as the op says

it was not a disabled bay....

 

and there were signs with a disabled symbol with a line through ..

 

so again ...nothing to do with any disabled parking concessions.

[themagician]

Well that's succinct! - so ignore it? if its not a fine what is it? . Thanks for replying - feeling better already.

are you sure it says "FINE" as we only know them as speculative invoices ,commonly known as a parking charge.or is this your interpretation of the letter?.

[Nev Met]

as the op says

it was not a disabled bay....

 

and there were signs with a disabled symbol with a line through ..

 

so again ...nothing to do with any disabled parking concessions.

 

BPA Ltd CoP Version 3 (page 9)

 

16.1 The Equality Act 2010 says that providers of services to the public must make ‘reasonable adjustments’ to remove

barriers which may discriminate against disabled people.

 

16.2 ‘Reasonable adjustments’ to prevent discrimination are likely to include larger ‘disabled’ parking spaces near to the

entrance or amenities for disabled people whose mobility is impaired. It also could include lowered payment machines and other ways to pay if payment is required: for example, paying by phone. You and your staff also need to realise that some disabled people may take a long time to get to the payment machine.

 

16.3 Operators of off-street car parks do not have to recognise the Blue Badge scheme. But many choose to

do so to meet their obligations under the Equality Act. Although a Blue Badge is not issued to all disabled people

it is issued to those with mobility problems. So it is a good way for parking operators to identify people who

need special parking provision.

[ericsbrother]

The reason you were ticketed was "left site". This has already been proven at a court that this doesnt matter and therefore the issuing of the ticket cannot properly be taken further. You canwrite to the company and appeal, saying that the conditions of parking do not exclude going elsewhere (dont say that you wre ONLY elsewhere) and that this has been subject to a court decision and therefore you are not obliged to pay a fee for parking as you did.

[Mollierose8]

It was a parking ticket in the little yellow bag - shall I appeal? it says in the small print should my appeal be rejected 'you will be provided details of how to refer the matter to an independent appeals service. Parking on Private Land appeals (POPLA).

 

no that's just my wording its a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) in a little yellow bag.

 

Ah...thanks for that.

[renegadeimp]

Ahh. So you can appeal to popla. Should be straightforward enough. Sit tight and youll get some good info and a good reason to appeal.

[Mollierose8]

Right so I am going to appeal with the wording suggested by ericsbrother above ......I'll let you know the outcome once its all sorted ... don't hold out much hope though, just delaying the inevitable!

[Nev Met]

The reason you were ticketed was "left site". This has already been proven at a court that this doesnt matter and therefore the issuing of the ticket cannot properly be taken further. You canwrite to the company and appeal, saying that the conditions of parking do not exclude going elsewhere (dont say that you wre ONLY elsewhere) and that this has been subject to a court decision and therefore you are not obliged to pay a fee for parking as you did.

 

I strongly advise against this because it requires you to identify the driver and therefore you surrender in one fell swoop the defences afforded to the registered keeper under PoFA.

 

Keep your powder dry, follow my advice and wait for the NtK (courtesy of the DVLA)

[esmerobbo]

Don't appeal on the screen ticket wait for the notice to owner/keeper, then appeal as the keeper but make no reference to you being the driver.

[Mollierose8]

Thank you for helping out....I'll probably have to come back to you for the wording once I get the owner/keeper letter if that's OK with you.

 

Still holding my breath......no notification in the post yet ......

[ericsbrother]

they are now timed out for the Notice to Keeper so safe to ignore any further demands. They now have to prove who was the driver if they want to go further

[Nev Met]

I thought the NtD was placed on the vehicle at the time (20th October 2013) therefore LPS cannot apply for RK data (Under PoFA) until 28 days after the 20th October and then they have a window to serve a NtK which doesn't close until a further 28 days (making 56 days in total) after the date of the original contravention.

 

Have I missed something here?

[ericsbrother]

no, it is me getting things the wrong way round.

[Mollierose8]

I've got a letter from London Parking Solutions dated Dec 17th saying I must now pay £100 and have 28 days to appeal or else a debt collection agency will be involved.....I went on Street View to look at Thames Road London (The Princess Alice Pub) and although you can see disabled parking bays I was not in one (the disable badge was on the dash board I also note they have cameras on the car park. Presumably that's how they know I left the car park.

 

Now I ignored the original PCN....but it does say on the back of this letter I can appeal via email to them but "if my appeal is rejected you will be provided with details of how to refer the matter to an Independent Appeals Service ("IAS), along with a unique reference number. Any appeal you make to the IAS will be rejected unless you have first followed our own appeals service. Please note, if you DO appeal to the IAS and your appeal is rejected, you will lose the option to pay the reduced amount".

 

Please help me with what you would reply or the wording for my appeal. This just adds to the stress, but I kept my powder dry! God I hope you all can help me.....

Edited December 22, 2013 by Mollierose8
add a bit more

[ericsbrother]

How was the letter addressed to you? As driver or RK of the vehicle? Did they invite you to name the driver at the time and do they mention pursuing the RK if the driver is not identified.

As for leaving the car park, that reason for ticketing was blown out of the water ages ago.

Appeal on the grounds of no loss caused by your action and that £100 is a penalty, not an estimate of loss. they will reject this but give you the all-important POPLA ref no.

[ericsbrother]

As a point of interest you could ask them as RK how are you supposed to know about the ticket discount period if the driver doesnt tell you about the ticket. Dont mention the defence for leaving car park as at this stage they havent identified the driver and are not chasing you are the driver but keeper of the vehicle. Make them do the work and hopefully the mistakes.