my MBNA debt been through every DCA in the book - now link chasing

[ncm-000]

Having lurked here for some time and

 

I am currently discussing (by letter) an alleged debt with Arrow & Fredrickson

I am interested in precisely what they must supply to comply with a CCA request.

 

Do they have to supply statements going back to the beginning of the credit agreement?

If not how far back - is the last issued statement sufficient.

 

Must there be some documentary evidence of the last payment made?

Do they have to prove who made that payment.

( I have read that some unscrupulous DCAs make payments to keep alive debts that would otherwise be Statute Barred).

 

If the debt has been 'bought' do they have to provide anything other than a statement of fact.

I believe the actual transfer deed showing the price paid is confidential but must they supply a copy of it (wuth the appropriate parts redacted)

 

I hope this is not a too detailed request for a first post.

[mikeymack2002]

Welecome to CAG

 

A CCA request must include copies the agreement t&c's at the start the end and any adjustments,

You should have had a letter stating the a DCA is involved

 

Now for the nitty gritty part can you please post up more details please so we can help, like when was it taken out , the last payment any history regarding this debt thx

Then stay off the fone ok

 

mm

[ncm-000]

Thanks for the welcome.

 

Are you saying that when a DCA responds to a CCA the do NOT have to include any statements or the last recorded payment?

 

This is a generic request so far, so no specific details of the aledged debt I am discussing with Freds & Arrow.

[mikeymack2002]

This is the first thing they do is to be vague that way you will ring them ,

DONT.

 

Your statements come from a sar (subject access request) thats the next job,

 

1st of all see if ts enforceable

find the template here adjust it to your needs,

like your address ref number you will find it here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter.

 

Once filled in include a postal order for £1.00 and send off to the dca

they have to respond in 12+2 days.

 

Do this 1st and send it recorded delivery, keep all letters they send you as well then come back,

dont ring them at all thats a must if they ring you simly state you will only communicate in writing then hang up ok

 

By the way who is the DCA as they play differently to each other,

I am new on here too but the help is invaluable and if i say it rong someone will correct me anyways good luck

Edited March 19, 2013 by mikeymack2002

[ncm-000]

Hi, I have been at this 'game' quite a while and understand most of the 'rules'

I have been refusing Phone contact with these parasites for years and 'stole' a 'go away' letter from here last year.

 

In this case it is Freds & Arrow. for an MBNA account.

 

However, my request is generic about what must they supply to fulfill a CCA.

I thought a SAR was different and cost £10 not £1.

 

You say they have to respond in 12+2 days,

what if they do not or the reply is incomplete.

Have they comitted a criminal offence and can they be procecuted for that one offence

or is it just another nail in the coffin IF trading standards of OFT decide to do something ( which I understand they do not do very often).

[Bombaymix]

Cca request = £1 fee. 12+2 days to respond, after this time you can send them the failed CCA letter. All they need to supply is CCA with this, if you want statements and other information then it's...

 

SAR = £10 fee. 40 days to respond to this one.

 

Hope this clarifies a little

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

You will get a standard ''statement'' of the account with the CCA request.

 

They will not provide the date of the last payment or detailed statements.

[ncm-000]

You will get a standard ''statement'' of the account with the CCA request.

 

They will not provide the date of the last payment or detailed statements.

 

In this case assuming that the debt is old and the last payment MAY have been more than 6 years ago.

 

Is sending a letter to the DCA along the lines of the following worth anything.

 

" ... as you have failed to supply proof of the last payment I shall assume that it is statute barred and expect a letter from you forthwith advising me that you have abandoned this attempt at resurrecting this alleged debt"

 

Would it be sensible to include some phraseology regarding this is not an admission or acknowledgement of ownership of the debt, or heading the letter with Without Prejudice.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There are no ciminal offence connected with CCA request and havn't been for years, there is no harm in phoning and asking the original crerditor when the last payment was made.

 

There is no way that you will be provided with a copy of The Deed os Assignment and there is NO obligaion on a creditor to do so.

Or you can send The SAR to the OC.

 

I'm afraid the information you have is far far out of date.

 

The phrase ''without prejudice'' is not something that I would recommend using on any deocuments because should a matter go before a court ''wihout prejudice '' doccuments would be inadmissable.

 

The DCA will have NO data on the last payment date so as said ask the original creditor!!

 

For information: The OFT Guidance on Debt Collection 2003 updated Nov.2012 states that ''once a debtor has informed a creditor in writting that a debt is statute barred it is unfair to press for payment.

 

So you need to be sure of the date and you must inform the DCA that the debt is statute, they MUST prove it isn't.

[ncm-000]

@Brigadier2jcs thank you, most informative.

 

If There are no criminal offense connected with CCA request what is the point of saying

they have to respond in 12+2 days?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The account can be placed in dispute meaning that the creditor / Dca cannot seek to enforce the debt in court!

I cannot remember a successful criminal proceeding in regard to this before the penalties were repealed.

[ncm-000]

I cannot remember a successful criminal proceeding in regard to this before the penalties were repealed.

What about since they were repealed?

 

With regard to contacting the OC with a SAR, is this tantamount to an acknowledgement of the debt (which would reset the clock)

 

Would it be OK to challenge the DCA to prove it was not statute barred by providing proof of the past payment.

 

IS it reasonable to demand proof of who made the last payment, on the grounds that there is documentary evidence that some unscrupulous DCAs have made fraudulant payments in an attempt to keep a SB'd debt alive.

 

I hope this is not too many questions for one post!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The OC no longer owns the account, a SAR is a lawful request for informatio made under the Data Protection Act 1998 and so is not admission of liability.

The information you require will be available with the SAR, however there is certainly no harm in asking the OC for the date of the last payment.

If a DCA claims that a ''mystery'' payment was made then ask for ''unequivocal proof'' of how, when and by whom such payment was made.

 

The question od ''fraudulent'' payments most often in my experience these have turned out to be statutory fees for SARs and/or CCA requests wrongly applied to the account.

[ncm-000]

however there is certainly no harm in asking the OC for the date of the last payment.

 

Is it reasonable to ask the DCA for the date of the last payment, or MUST I go through a SAR to the OC. (trying to save the £10 fee)

 

BTW, I tried to give you another star but the system says I must give it to others first, why, no one else has been anywhere near as helpful as you have been!

[daverules]

The DCA will most likely not have the date of last payment but you can certainly ring the original creditor and ask them.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Is it reasonable to ask the DCA for the date of the last payment, or MUST I go through a SAR to the OC. (trying to save the £10 fee)

 

BTW, I tried to give you another star but the system says I must give it to others first, why, no one else has been anywhere near as helpful as you have been!

 

Thank you your comments are very much appreciated!!!

 

The account will have been ''sold'' as a part of a huge portfolio of debts so the DCA will be very unlikely to have any payment data at all, as said no harm in a quick call to the OC is all that is needed.

 

If you want a '' tailor made '' stat barred letter when you get the info pls let me know.

[ncm-000]

I have been dredging through a ton of paperwork going back to 'DOT'

and have found an original statement that tells me my last payment was April 08.

 

I am a real horder of paperwork and it looks as though it has paid off.

 

However, I have found another anomaly that may be a 'get out of jail free card'

When I sent a previous DCA (working fro Arrow) a 'prove it letter', I was sent a photostat of a document I thought was proof.

 

I am now not so sure having read another few hundred posts on here.

 

The document is titled MBNA Mastercard Application form.

 

Now I am certain this is the only document I signed, it is dated Sept '94.

 

I think they are in trouble because the agreement is unenforceable if this is all they have - am I correct?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok MBNA is well known for having ''dual purpose'' app/agreement forms that did comply with the then current regs and legislation, this account is so old I would like if possible to see a suitably redacted copy of this app form please.,

[ncm-000]

I will organize that tomorrow, are there any 'gotchas' I need to be aware of when trying to post an attachment on this forum.

 

Size, type, location etc.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

PDF is best see any post by dx100uk for easy instructions on this.

[ncm-000]

system will not allow attachments as I have insufficent posts.

 

DUMMY POST to increase my count

[ncm-000]

Redacted credit agreement as requested

 

 

Notes.

 

1. removed last 12 digits of card number, note this is in same handwriting as the word Arrow.

 

2. removed handwritten 8 digit number

 

3. removed 6 printed digits after N30

 

4. removed 2 digit number (in thick felt pen?)

 

5. removed 6 digit number (in thick felt pen?)

 

6 removed 7 printed digits after 01

 

7. removed 9 printed digits after M

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok that is the usual MBNA dual purpose app/agreement form and as such satisfies a section 77/78 request CCA '74.

[ncm-000]

I notice that the only tie in between the agreement and the account is the 16 digit number hand written on the top.

It appears to be in the same hand writing as the word arrow, therefore I assume it to be contemporaneous with the sale to arrow last year.

 

Is there any point in challenging someone to prove the agreement refers to the account by requiring production of a document contemporaneous with the setup of the agreement / account.

Amd if so challenge who, Arrow or MBNA? Is there a boilerplate letter for such a challenge?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I suspect that if the 16 digit number starts with same 4 digits (which identify the issuer) and the other 12 digits are different then this is not your agreement'

(eg Barclaycards are all 4929).