Birth Certificate question??

[McCaw]

To cut a really long story short, the facts are:

- my gf is pregnant

- the father was a one night stand from the other side of the country,

she doesn't even remember his name, he's not in the picture

 

- we've been friends for a very long time before we started dating

 

- I want equal parental responsibility, she wants the same.

That the end goal however we go about it.

I wanted some legal advice and have a friends dad who does that he told me:

 

If you want to come see me professionally i'll tell you how it is totally illegal to put your name on the birth certificate,

the best thing I can advise is getting married and then applying to adopt.

However if you want to come and ask me what I think as Cam's dad then i'd say to you:

[my gf] was in a bad place around that time and she was sleeping with quite a few guys, [true] y

ou and her had been very very good friends for a long time [also true]

and maybe one night around the time of conception you went further than that

and slept together [not true]

and then maybe now you both take a punt that your the father and that's what you put on the certificate.

Which kind of got me thinking

- its not that far fetched, it could of happened, it didn't, but it could of.

 

Is there any real potential harm from putting my name if its what we both want?

We have no intention of lying to our son about it,

but adoption is lengthy, expensive, complicated.

 

I'd be a good dad, i'd defend this kid with my last breath - how can that be wrong?

but we would be knowingly putting wrong information on a legal document

so I guess my question is,

how does the law sit.....is this like serious fraud or what?

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

My instant reaction is that you need to be careful about this, but I'll move your thread to the General Legal issues forum and see if anyone knows more about this.

 

I'll leave a short term redirect from this forum for you to follow to the new one.

 

My best, HB

[McCaw]

Ahh cheers - you've got a lot of categories, I got a bit confused!

[honeybee13]

No problem, you've found your way to the new forum.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

you will not be able to register the baby unless you are going to lie and say you are partners.

 

Where parents are unmarried and not living together,

the mother only may register the child and has to put 'father unknown' or 'not recorded'

unless the father is present at the registration to confirm that he accepts that he is the father.

 

you REALLY need to think about the future passport issues too.

 

http://www.circleofmoms.com/single-moms/should-i-put-my-sons-father-on-the-birth-certificate-496463

[McCaw]

you will not be able to register the baby unless you are going to lie and say you are partners.

We are together we're just not married

 

Where parents are unmarried and not living together,

the mother only may register the child and has to put 'father unknown' or 'not recorded'

unless the father is present at the registration to confirm that he accepts that he is the father.

That's not an issue,we are living together, just not married but it's would be no problem for me to be present at the registration

 

you REALLY need to think about the future passport issues too.

http://www.circleofmoms.com/single-moms/should-i-put-my-sons-father-on-the-birth-certificate-496463

Right, intresting, I didn't know any of that.

So basically if I'm on the BC then We'd need mine and my gf's signiture to get our lad a passport, and if she was to go abroad with him and without me she'd need a letter from me?

That would be fine, I'd want him to have a passport. It wouldn't come to DNA or anything, right?

[dx100uk]

the passport issue would only arise if 'someone else' was named as the father

that could 'object'.

 

my PERS VIEW, is leave it unknown or not recorded.

 

not being funny, but you cannot see into the future here

you two could split etc etc then that might create and issue if you were named father.

 

it can all be explain when the child is old enough.

 

I know a family where 2 of 6 were from an affair though the old man signed the certs

even though he was not the father

 

that caused no end of legal issues when they [adult kids] came of age.

 

they at a later stage can get things changed on the cert anyway.

 

dx

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi McCaw and welcome to CAG!

 

It's great that you are being so supportive to your girlfriend and obviously it would be nice for the baby if your name is on the birth certificate. However, you do need to think very carefully about this. You have already spoken to your friend's father about the situation. How many other people already know the real facts?

 

Looking further into the future: What would happen if you and the mother split up? Would you be willing to pay maintenance for this child forever? If your name is on the birth certificate it would be difficult to say at that stage that you had lied about it.

 

If you are convinced that your girlfriend is the love of your life and you will be together forever then you might go ahead and put your name on the birth certificate I suppose, but if you are good friends, rather than being madly in love, then things may change further down the line if one of you meets someone else and I think you should both think about that.

 

You would be knowingly falsifying a legal document and I wouldn't want this to come back and bite you later.

 

DD

[McCaw]

Hi McCaw and welcome to CAG!

Thanks

 

It's great that you are being so supportive to your girlfriend and obviously it would be nice for the baby if your name is on the birth certificate. However, you do need to think very carefully about this. You have already spoken to your friend's father about the situation. How many other people already know the

real facts?

Thank you. Yeah well my family, some friends. We haven't been lying about it, but I haven't been correcting the people we know who assume its mine.

I guess that's the thing, like I wouldn't intend to lie to our son about it, I don't think - I don't believe its being a biological parent that makes a you a dad anyway, its about being there, putting in the hours because you want to and he'll know that.

But then I dunno, I guess if we do this then we need to start presenting the scenario my friends dad put across as the truth to the wider world. I guess its not like most people you come into contact with are ever going to know if your the biological parent ot not and if your on the birth certificate or not....I figure we'd probably just let people assume.

 

Looking further into the future: What would happen if you and the mother split up? Would you be willing to pay maintenance for this child forever? If your name is on the birth certificate it would be difficult to say at that stage that you had lied about it.

Of course, i'd be happy to pay, he would be 100% my son and I would do what any dad worth his salt would do for his son.

I don't see us splitting up, I really don't, although I appreciate I guess who does but me and her grew up together, I know her faults, she knows mine, I love her anyway.

But taking the situation as a hypothetical and saying a year down the line she walked away and id put my name on the certificate. Id be devastated and angry, it would be awful of course. But I wouldn't feel conned - that boy would be my son in all but blood and I would try my hardest to be the best dad I could to him.

To then weight that against the reverse hypothetical...

A year from now she walks, but I have no legal responsibility or rights to that lad.

Id raised him totally as my own, in my heart he were my son in all but blood but in the eyes of the law I had no right to ever see him again - I would just be heartbroken, completely shattered and id be fighting mad as well.

I mean these are completely hypothetical - knowing my gf as well as I do, walking away just isn't her not at all, and removing a parent from a kid is definitely not her cause she knows first hand how much that sucks. But if we are talking hypotheticals obviously id be devastated in either scenario but undoubtedly to me, and maybe differently to other guys, but to me the second one hurts more!

 

If you are convinced that your girlfriend is the love of your life and you will be together forever then you might go ahead and put your name on the birth certificate I suppose, but if you are good friends, rather than being madly in love, then things may change further down the line if one of you meets someone else and I think you should both think about that.

To be with her, have a family with her - that's everything I've wanted since I was 15.

She takes hoursss to get ready, she re-organises all my stuff, she constantly asks questions the entire wary through any movie! But I am hook, line and sinker crazy about her...and to be honest - she always looks drop dead, the way she organises stuff makes more sense and I have a soft spot for her 'who's that?', 'why did he give that to her', 'is that a bomb then?'

 

You would be knowingly falsifying a legal document and I wouldn't want this to come back and bite you later. DD

Yeah quite - neither would I!

[McCaw]

the passport issue would only arise if 'someone else' was named as the father

that could 'object'.

Right, so if someone came and objected and said he was the father?

We're confident In that not happening

 

not being funny, but you cannot see into the future here

you two could split etc etc then that might create and issue if you were named father.

Yeah see im trying to look at all possible eventualities, like I was saying above when looking at the hypothetical that we could split up - in that situation it would be having no legal rights to the kid that I think scares me the most.

 

I know a family where 2 of 6 were from an affair though the old man signed the certs

even though he was not the father

that caused no end of legal issues when they [adult kids] came of age.

Oh really?

You don't have to if im asking too much but just generally in what kind of way? Im trying to get an idea of if we could hit problems in the future what kind of thing they would be.

 

Thanks again!

[Desperate Daniella]

You sound like such a lovely guy. They are both lucky to have you and I wish you all the luck and happiness in the world.

 

Ultimately it's your decision. I was playing devil's advocate. (And reminding you of the legal situation!)

 

And I totally agree with you that you don't have to be a biological parent to be a really great parent.

 

Just another thought: If you do decide not to put your name on the birth certificate and to adopt, you can do this a couple of years down the line. As you would then have an established, loving relationship with your little boy it should be no more than a formality. (You don't have to go through the complete adoption with panel, or anything like that.) The birth certificate would then show you as his parent.

[McCaw]

You sound like such a lovely guy. They are both lucky to have you and I wish you all the luck and happiness in the world.

Aww thank you

 

 

Just another thought: If you do decide not to put your name on the birth certificate and to adopt, you can do this a couple of years down the line. As you would then have an established, loving relationship with your little boy it should be no more than a formality. (You don't have to go through the complete adoption with panel, or anything like that.) The birth certificate would then show you as his parent.

Yeah totally - that is our other option, I want to legally be his dad its just a case of doing it one way or another. I don't pretend to be an expert on adoption, i'm not but I think your right if we get married then because there's not other father on the scene adopting should be fairly straight forward I would think, I would hope.

[Desperate Daniella]

Honestly, if you do take the adoption route I think it will just be a formality. Yes, you'll have to see a social worker and go to the Family Court, but if you have an established family relationship and you've been his father since birth I'm sure it will be a straightforward process, especially with an unknown father. You won't go to Court until all the paperwork has been approved and the judge usually congratulates everyone and will allow pictures if you want them. It's very much treated as a celebration.

 

If you google 'Adoption by Step-parent' you'll see the course this usually follows, though all local authorities are a little different of course. BAAF can also give independent advice.

 

At least you wouldn't have to worry about falsifying the birth certificate!

[McCaw]

At least you wouldn't have to worry about falsifying the birth certificate!

That is a big big positive definitely!!

 

With the adoption thing, as I understand it, you don't necessarily have to be married but you have to have been living together for, I think they recommend a minimum of 2 years. We've only been for a few months because I've been building a house.

Plus you have to be over 21 and I'm not 21 till March so whatever we're looking at a the very least a good year+ before they'll consider us. Which isn't really a problem, I don't mind waiting, its not like either of us are going anywhere, we're solid.

 

I guess theres only really 2 issues with the adoption side, one being my girlfriend not being keen on social workers being involved in our life (I don't know how involved they'd be), she grew up in care see, battled the system the whole way I think. But if it is literally just a couple of visits im sure we can work with that.

And then I guess 2 is people in my life have been so concerned with telling me I need to make it legal at some point that they've gone and put ideas in my head, like what if she falls over gets amnesia and forgets who I am...do I lose everything? I know it sounds ridiculous, and most of the time stuff like that happens to other people on the news but I cant help but have a little nag at the back of my head like what if it happens to us, y'know, I just I would feel more comfortable if my relationship with my son was legal.

I don't know - Im a firefighter, I guess its in my job description to look at the situation from every angle, evaluate the worst case scenario, maybe I just need to chill and trust that it'll work out for us.

[Desperate Daniella]

You mentioned your friend's father saying that if you saw him in a professional capacity ..... Is he a solicitor? I wondered if you might be able to organize something in a Will made by your girlfriend stating that to all extents and purposes you are the child's father and if anything happened to her you would have parental responsibility. I don't know enough about this so I think you should talk to a solicitor about it. If your girlfriend grew up in care I guess there is no immediate family on her side who would want to take the baby instead?

 

You don't have to get married but in the very unlikely event that something happened to her I think your application to adopt the baby on your own would be much stronger. Again, I think you should get legal advice on this.

 

Once the adoption has been finalized you would have no need of further visits from social workers. They would visit to make sure the baby was thriving and to see how you all get on together. If everything is going well and is stable they will approve you and tell you how to apply to the Court. Adoptive families only get social workers' involvement after the finalized adoption in complicated cases where help is needed/wanted because of problems with the child, not in straightforward adoptions like yours.

 

And you're a firefighter, so as well as being a lovely guy you are a brave one too!

Edited October 16, 2013 by Desperate Daniella

[steampowered]

Apart from the issues already mentioned, would you or the girlfriend ever want to claim maintenance payments from the father? This would be difficult if your name is on the birth certificate.

 

There is no need to do an adoption. There is already statutory provision for step-parents to get PR. You can ask that the court grants you PR by making what is known as a section 8 application under the Children Act 1989. Please review http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=50 and https://www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/apply-for-parental-responsibility.

 

There will be a court fee but it won't be a huge amount, and probably no need to use a solicitor if the mother agrees. I can't imagine this would be too expensive or difficult.

[Desperate Daniella]

That is very helpful advice.

 

McCaw, as you say, doesn't need to formally adopt, but I think he wants to be on the birth certificate which means stating from the start that he is the father on the birth certificate or adopting later.

[Old Cogger]

If you are sure then get your name on the certificate, lot less hasstle in the future believe you me, also the child will not have to know the truth and let it be, it does affect some children if they find out later that nothing on certificate, i adopted 3 and the system is long and hard, also those interfering Social workers get stuck in god help you!

[Desperate Daniella]

The adoption process can be long and hard, as you rightly say, but it's not the same for step-parent adoption. It's really much easier.

[McCaw]

You mentioned your friend's father saying that if you saw him in a professional capacity ..... Is he a solicitor? I wondered if you might be able to organize something in a Will made by your girlfriend stating that to all extents and purposes you are the child's father and if anything happened to her you would have parental responsibility. I don't know enough about this so I think you should talk to a solicitor about it.

Yeah well he's a lawyer...ive only spoke to him the once and that's when he was saying basically "off record Andrew its easier to just sign your name on the BC" but it may be worth me getting him to have a look at what he could recommend on record as well.

 

If your girlfriend grew up in care I guess there is no immediate family on her side who would want to take the baby instead?

that's right, she has no family so no one would contest me having parental rights or adopting or anything.

 

You don't have to get married but in the very unlikely event that something happened to her I think your application to adopt the baby on your own would be much stronger. Again, I think you should get legal advice on this.

sure, its not that I don't want to get married - I do at one point I just don't/didn't want to rush into it, more for my gf than anything - she didn't always have the best Christmases or birthdays and I just wanted to give her a really proper wedding not to just do it real quick so were married on paper and can get through some of this legal red tape.

 

Once the adoption has been finalized you would have no need of further visits from social workers. They would visit to make sure the baby was thriving and to see how you all get on together. If everything is going well and is stable they will approve you and tell you how to apply to the Court. Adoptive families only get social workers' involvement after the finalized adoption in complicated cases where help is needed/wanted because of problems with the child, not in straightforward adoptions like yours.

right I see, so we wouldn't need weekly visits like some people do, cause my gf would freak right out about that.

 

And you're a firefighter, so as well as being a lovely guy you are a brave one too!

haha aww sheesh you'll make me blush!

[Desperate Daniella]

I don't think you should rush into marriage. I thought it might help a bit on the parental rights issue but maybe it's not necessary. I think it's great that you want your wedding day to be fabulous for your girlfriend. I saw an online ad today for Barnardo's and the girl in it is saying how amazing it was to be given a birthday party by her foster parents because her own mother didn't bother. I just cannot imagine that, even though I know that so many children lead very bleak lives. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

 

I cannot imagine why any post-adoption visits by social workers would be required here. It's nothing like an adoption where someone applies to adopt and then goes through the process and is then able to look at/be considered for adoptable children. You want and will love this baby and will be a great father. They'll come and meet you, prepare a report and once it's been finalized by the Court (rubber stamped in fact) then it's bye-bye social workers.

 

You and your girlfriend will have to show that you are happy, stable, coping with the baby and committed to the baby and each other.

 

You have nothing to blush about.

[McCaw]

Apart from the issues already mentioned, would you or the girlfriend ever want to claim maintenance payments from the father? This would be difficult if your name is on the birth certificate.

No no not at all. She doesn't know who he is A and B i'll be his dad, no one else, if she or the lad needs money it'll be mine.

 

There is no need to do an adoption. There is already statutory provision for step-parents to get PR. You can ask that the court grants you PR by making what is known as a section 8 application under the Children Act 1989. Please review http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=50 and https://www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/apply-for-parental-responsibility.

There will be a court fee but it won't be a huge amount, and probably no need to use a solicitor if the mother agrees. I can't imagine this would be too expensive or difficult.

So id need to be a step parent for that, yeah?? So we'd have to get married before we could apply?

 

That is very helpful advice.

McCaw, as you say, doesn't need to formally adopt, but I think he wants to be on the birth certificate which means stating from the start that he is the father on the birth certificate or adopting later.

Yeah ideally I would like to be, I don't have to be it won't stop me being a dad, but I would like it to be official

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

This is from the government website about stepparents adopting. You need to be a spouse or a partner if I read this right.

 

https://www.gov.uk/child-adoption/adopting-a-stepchild

 

HB

[Old Cogger]

If you are sure then get your name on the certificate, lot less hasstle in the future believe you me, also the child will not have to know the truth and let it be, it does affect some children if they find out later that nothing on certificate, i adopted 3 and the system is long and hard, also those interfering Social workers get stuck in god help you!

 

 

Mine was for step parent me (Stepfather) for all 3 of one family, hence why I commented above. and the problem with the real father releasing his authority. they tend to be obtrusive for quite a while.

[McCaw]

If you are sure then get your name on the certificate, lot less hasstle in the future believe you me, also the child will not have to know the truth and let it be, it does affect some children if they find out later that nothing on certificate, i adopted 3 and the system is long and hard, also those interfering Social workers get stuck in god help you!

 

Its definetly less hassle I just want to avoid caring more hassle for me or him in the long run for any reason