appealing a DLA decision- high mobility...NO care!

[kahlo]

Hi there, after a home visit medical I was awarded high mobility and NO care.

I cannot understand how they have decided that I have not been awarded care component.

I am thinking i should appeal, but i have several questions.

 

the letter says that i can write or phone within 1 month of date of letter. (I have about 10 days left) and that if since receiving this letter we have sent you a written statement of reasons for our decision you have at least an extra 14 days to make your appeal.

How do you get a written statement of reasons? ..

In the award letter it does say having considered all the information i have decided the following ( and incorrectly lists not needing help to prepare a meal, lists day attention areas not needed. and not needing night attention more than once or for 20 mins or more a night).... is this the statement of reasons?

 

How do you get to see what was written in the EMP report as i cannot see how the difficulties i stated ( i recorded the medical for my own memory) would result in a NO care award.

 

when I appealed my ESA , i didnt request a review and went straight to asking for an appeal ( as the review is done automatically)... and I waited for the tribunal pack before preparing a submission

is the same for DLA?

 

I will probably have some more questions , but right now i need to know how to proceed .

many thanks in advance

[Nystagmite]

You have to phone and ask for the statement of reasons. The number is the same as the one on the letter you received.

[kahlo]

thank you.. if i ask for the statement of reasons, will i get the EMP report aswell?

i have considerable cognitive difficulties and wouldnt want to get in to a conversation about the why i think the decision is incorrect at this point.

I need to get help to write it down rather than try to communicate it verbally at this stage

[Nystagmite]

You may have to request the EMP report separately.

[**Margaret**]

:Hello kahlo:

 

The appeals procedure against a disability living decision is exactly the same as the one you used for employment n support.

 

'...... I have decided the following ......' sounds like the computer generated walls of text that accompany a negative disability living decision. It's not the personalised written statement of reasons that needs to be requested via phone, or in writing, within one month of the decision.

 

The examining medical practitioner's report is available on request via phone, or in writing. (Same as an ESA85/85A.) Separate requests for the doctor's report and the statement of reasons usually get a better response. Otherwise, one or the other usually gets overlooked.

 

A phone request for either doctor's report or statement of reasons shouldn't trigger a discussion of the decision, but if it does, explain that you can't cope with/get confused by/often forget phone calls, so please can you have a written response.

 

Most people don't find them very useful, but if you do ask for a written statement of reasons make sure Disability n Carers get your appeal by the date stated. They tend to be less forgiving than Jobcentreplus.

 

Keep a diary of the care you need, as and when it happens, for a week. As a starting point for a possible appeal.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[kahlo]

I have been waiting for the statement of reasons and the EMP report...but it has not yet arrived and i need to send back my GL24 today.

 

Before i do i have a couple of questions i would be grateful for some help with.

 

1)I remember sending a covering letter for my ESA appeal which said something like " There may be additional grounds on which I wish to appeal once I have seen the papers.

 

Please do not ask me to give further details of my grounds for appeal at this stage as I will not be able to do so until I have been provided with more information about how the decision was reached and had the opportunity to get further independent advice and support.

If you wish to contact me about this matter please do so in writing.

I do not wish to receive any telephone calls as I have significant cognitive difficulties which have been medically assessed that make it difficult for me to concentrate and consider welfare benefits too complex to be discussed over the phone.

Under no circumstances will I withdraw my appeal verbally; any suggestion that I have done so will be mistaken.

I will submit any further evidence as soon as it becomes available."

I was hoping to have a bit more info from the paperwork i requested ,but have not received before i sent the GL24 back...should i send a similar covering letter and on the GL24 form be brief about appealing decision that i do not have any care needs,without explaining in any detail the needs i do have?

 

I also wanted to know how securely i got the high mobility, but having not received the EMP report yet i dont have any clues about that.

 

2) can I withdraw an appeal if i want to later ?

many thanks

[**Margaret**]

:kahlo:

 

Very quickly, cos I'm on our co-ordinator's computer (or at least, as quick as I can think n type)

 

For part 8 of the GL24; as many bullet points as you can think of as to why you need care; help to get out of bed, shower n dress, continence issues? Easier to get it sent off now than come up with reasons for a late appeal. Supporting arguments/evidence can be sent later.

 

Yes, you can withdraw an appeal at any time before a hearing without giving a reason.

 

I'll get back to you later or tomorrow about the non receipt of report n statement of reasons.

 

Margaret.

[kahlo]

Thankyou Margaret xx

[**Margaret**]

:Hello kahlo:

 

Concerning that statement of reasons, I've not had cause to ask for a disability living one recently but those who have are waiting longer and longer. In theory you could've waited for it before submission of the GL24 but it would have delayed your appeal, for praps very little extra info, and possibly led to a dispute about a late appeal unless you sent an written request via recorded delivery.

 

There's no reason for Disability n Carers not to have sent a copy of the doctor's report cept their inexplicable reluctance to provide them and workload. Dependent on how much patience you've got, you can chase for the report or hit them with a subject access request sent to the address on your award letter.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-request-for-personal-information

 

So what can you expect to receive first? Doctor's report, statement of reasons or appeal bumf? No idea, but it makes a mockery of them asking us to provide evidence soon as poss. For the mo, you're in the same position as with your employment n support appeal in that you don't know what you're arguing against. While you wait; there's nothing to be lost by sending in a diary of care, which is often persuasive evidence for a disability living appeal, and a statement from your carer. Together with anything you can get about care needs from a specialist nurse for your condition if you've got one. The link below outlines the basic criteria for disability living and explains some of the terminology.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/CarersDirect/moneyandlegal/Disabilitybenefits/Pages/disabilitylivingallowance.aspx

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited November 8, 2013 by **Margaret**

[kahlo]

hi there, my dla appeal was adjourned.

 

quick summary..I was awarded high mobility and NO care .- I appealed the care component

sent a submission , which provided additional evidence and highlighted many omissions and inaccuracies in the EMP medial report the EMP disregarded one of my main disabling conditions (spinal problem ) and only focused on Multiple sclerosis... ) -

 

The EMP reported that i have full lumbar function and stated that I was able to do certain movements on examination ( when I refused to do them as what he was asking me to do I know to cause me excruciating pain which I highlighted

 

I sent the submission recorded signed for -6 days before the hearing (unfortunately the bank holiday lost me a day)

 

I was in an acute episode and was bed ridden /unable to get into the car to attend the hearing, so despite the lower success rate I requested a paper hearing.( I am totally exhausted by the whole thing)

I received decision notice stating that "appeal adjourned for an oral hearing with a time of 2 slots- because the Tribunal were presented on the day with the submission ...no alternative but to adjourn the case, by which tie the Tribunal will have had the opportunity to read the additional information. The appellant is strongly recommended to attend on the net occasion)

 

Admittedly there were quite a few pages . ( it is such a pain that we are not able to sent them directly to the Court rather than them having to be sent half way round the country to then come back to the local court)

 

My questions are..

1)the noted judge and members from the original tribunal are not excluded from further involvement in the appeal . Three people one i assume being a judge, one titled as a DR and one other?? . Who would they be and will they likely be the same people next time? If there are three..would one of those be from the DWP?

 

2)"appeal adjourned for an oral hearing with a time of 2 slots"

If I am able to physically get there, I am severely limited in the amount of time I am able to sit/be vertical/concentrate due to pain and extreme MS fatigue.

what kind of duration is a 2 slot likely to involve?

 

3) I mention in my submission the omissions and inconsistencies with the EMP medical exam report...Do they do physical examinations at a tribunal?

 

4) I am concerned that the inaccuracies/omissions in the EMP report that I highlighted in my submission will trigger the tribunal to review the Mobility component - I remember reading somewhere that if the tribunal go on to review the awarded mobility component as well as the appealed care component then I will be informed of this...will i be told of this in advance or at the hearing?

 

5) unfortuantely the electronic copy of the submission I sent has been corrupted

will I be sent a new bundle of documents ( including the submission) prior to the new hearing?

Phew! I was able to access my copy after all.

Edited July 2, 2014 by citizenB
amended as requested

[Nystagmite]

The other person has experience of disability. I had my DLA tribunal at the start of the year and I believe the other person worked with people in some capacity with similar issues as myself.

 

The tribunal look at the whole award. This doesn't mean they're going to take away your mobility.

[abc123def]

1) The third person is a person who has personal experience of living with a disability. They along with the judge who leads discussion and applies the law and the Doctor make up the panel. They may be the same people next time, or some or all of them may be different. The DWP are invited to be present but rarely attend. If they do attend they are not part of the panel, they sit on your side of the table and are asked questions by the panel and provide answers just as you do. The DWP attended my last DLA Tribunal and the judge gave the DWP man short shrift imo! Whereas I was treated kindly and with understanding.

 

2) I think one time slot is 30 minutes at a guess from my own experience. You are able to move around in the waiting area if needed and are only sat at the table with the panel for fairly short periods. You go out to the waiting area while they deliberate and go back on for the answer usually on the day itself.

 

3) Only the Dr is medically qualified and I have never heard of any medical examination done at a tribunal.

 

4) It is normal to get the results on the day. Occasionally they say you will hear by post, or if they require further evidence before deciding.

 

5) Phone the Tribunal service and ask for another copy to be sent to you.

 

HTH

[id6052]

single slots are usually 20 minutes - so a double slot would normally be 40 minutes

[kahlo]

My DLA tribunal has been adjourned (for the 2nd time)

 

and I am trying to get my head round the possible outcomes and the Tribunals powers .

 

I believe that the tribunal has a responsibility to look into both components , care and mobility if something is apparent in the case.

 

i wont go into the detail but i have two conditions... and on the basis of an appalling :-xATOS medical i was awarded high care and I was appealing no award for care

 

The EMP report ( it has many omissions, inaccuracies and states things that do not in any way reflect the examination, which i addressed in my submission) only gives detailed information on one of my disabling conditions and the report seems to reject one of my long standing conditions and several others , the one that causes me most of my mobility problems and care needs have discounted .

I assume the EMP's justification for this was the documenting of no problems in the physical examination of this particular area ( despite there not actually being physically examined- I state this in my submission)

 

I have sent medical reports from my consultants and specialist nurses with my original claim and in my submission . The tribunal has now requested a GP printout of electronic records and any reports or letters on file.

saying that my neurologist report contradicts the EMP report .

 

 

what I am trying to get my head round is that, I imagine that the ATOS report is now under doubt by the Tribunal , due to these many omissions, inaccuracies that i have highlighted .

The EMP's justification for high mobility was on the wrong thing..something that does cause me diffculties with mobility but in combination with the other condition that he has incorrectly failed to report on ( and showed a reluctance to listen to during the appointment).

The problems i have with the other condition alone meets the criteria for high component.. but it is arguable that the symptom of the other condition that the EMP has put forward would justify the high mobility award.( of course i never experience this symptom in isolation.

 

Obviously this impacts on the appeal of non award of care!

Which looks a bit precarious on the basis of the EMP report ,unless the condition that the EMP ruled out is ruled back together with other symptoms that the EMP has omitted to document correctly.

 

 

what could happen?

 

1. Does the tribunal have the power to keep the award of high mobility, but award it on having taken into consideration the condition that the EMP has (incorrecty/falsely) ruled out ?

 

2.Can the tribunal lower the award that has already been awarded without it going back to the DWP?

 

3.Does the appeal panel give more credence to consultants/gp and specialist rather than ATOS emp reports?

 

4. is it possible they are needing more information to over throw the EMP report?

 

[honeybee13]

Hello kahlo.

 

I've merged your new thread with a previous one which ends with your prospective tribunal, to keep the information together.

 

HB

[Nystagmite]

The tribunal can lower the award, remove it or keep it as it is. I went to tribunal appealing the care side of things. I mentioned in my submission about my mobility needs.