Change to working days.

[Shazza50]

Sorry in advance as this could be a long one . I currently work on the shop counter in a pharmacy 32hrs a week, Mon Tues Wed Fri. Another lady works 25.5hrs, Wed-Fri. We also do alternate Saturdays for 3hrs, of which we have to take the time off for that during the week, usually an early finish.

There used to be four of us, one lady sadly passed away in June and is not being replaced, and we had a Sat girl who left hence why we now do the Saturdays.

If either of us were on holiday, the girls that work in the dispensary had to cover the shop i.e. for me that would be Mon/Tues as the other lady isn't in, and Thurs for her as I am not in.

Now the company have decided that the dispensary is over staffed and have moved one member of staff to another branch, and we now have another having an op today which will keep her off for approx. 3mths.

So, the pharmacist/manager has decided to change our shop days thinking it will help. I know all about 'needs of the business' but this is how it panned out and why I was so annoyed :mad2:He wanted me to take 2 afternoons off, Mon/Tues, the other lady to work 5 afternoons. Now, I was ok' ish with this and said so, but the other lady wasn't, I don't blame her as she has done her hours for 10yrs. He left it with us, then this other lady came in to see him on her day off, but she didn't say why.

So, he has a meeting with us again this week and states "this is what you are doing and because you couldn't agree, its final". He gave the other lady Mon/Tues morning working and 3 afternoons, and told me I had to do Mon/Tues afternoons and 3 full days. To say I was fuming is an understatement, I told him that I was ok with his first suggestion, but he said we didn't both agree, well I don't agree with this one but apparently it was tough. So now she is ok'ish with her hours and I feel as though I've been dumped on from a great height . Basically, I felt as though I had been shafted to suit this other woman.

I told him I didn't want late starts and he said well the other one is doing 3, yes, but her other 2 days are just mornings and mine are full days!!!I said I would compromise and do one morning off and one afternoon off, but he came back to me and said no, it wouldn't work.

The top and bottom of it is, we are short staffed, though the company disagree. It doesn't matter how he changes our days, as there are only 2 of us, he will always need someone from the dispensary to cover our holidays, so instead of covering one full day, it will now be 2 half days at least!!!

Well after another meeting, I said why cant I have 2 afternoons off when the other one is in, Wed/Thurs, up to now he seems to think it will work, but I am worried that he might change his mind come Mon.

[Offkey81]

Hi Shazza,

 

How long have you been working for your employer? this would effect your 'rights' somewhat and maybe how you move forward on this.

Are these contracted hours and what does your contract say about hours (if you have one)?

Are there any reasons why working different hours is difficult? e.g. care responsibilities etc.

 

I would suggest trying to arrange mutually convenient days with your colleague. If this is a no-go, normally the first step is to discuss your issues with management, if this does not work you could then raise a grievance (a simple letter to your employer headed grievance) outlining your issues. However, depending on your answers to the first three questions raising a grievance could be dangerous (it shouldn't be but can be especially if your employer is not very nice).

[renegadeimp]

The key here is what your contract says, as you may well be on flexible hours or as you said, hours to suit the business. The only way you could stick to your old hours would be if you had a pro rata contract or if you worked the same shifts forva good while, it would be seen as an implied term in your contact.

[Emmzzi]

The only way you could stick to your old hours would be if you had a pro rata contract

 

Pro rate generally refers to rates of pay not hours of work

 

Custom and practice may be difficult to argue. Renegade is right, we need to know what your contract says about flexiblity on hours worked.

[renegadeimp]

My bad emm. In my work we refer to hours or shifts as pro rata. Easy mistake to make.

[Emmzzi]

My bad emm. In my work we refer to hours or shifts as pro rata. Easy mistake to make.

 

technically it just means "in proportion", but it's used all kinds of ways

[Shazza50]

Hi, I have worked for the company for just over 3yrs and my contract says Weekly hours of work 32hrs, your working pattern will be advised to you by your manager and may be subject to reasonable change from time to time to support the needs of the business.

My issue is with him changing my one full day off to having to work 2 half days in the afternoon, and also because he originally said to work 2 mornings, which I was ok with, but I know he has changed it to suit the other lady. I have an elderly father who lives in the next town, who I usually go to see on my day off, starting work later means I won't be able to spend as much time with him. Also, when I work the Saturday morning I have to take the time off during the week and again the only way for me to take it is by starting later one day.

 

Not much chance of changing anything with the other lady, although she's not happy to change from 3 full days to 5 half days, she's ok now she is doing the 2 mornings that I originally was offered.

Hopefully, he wont have changed his mind on Monday, but I want to be prepared if he does.

[Offkey81]

Hi Shazza,

 

Your contracts a bit of a stinker I am afraid, covers the employer pretty well it seems. The question is an objective one, is it a reasonable change? that depends but they seem to be in a strong position. As Emmzi states, Customs and practice is difficult especially now we know there is an express term in the contract allowing a 'reasonable' change. At this stage, I would probably say its best to arrange a informal meeting with the boss and explain your concerns especially in relation to any duties you have towards your father, this is not a legal thing where you can force them but it would hopefully pull on his heart strings (if he has one) and may influence whether the change is a 'reasonable' one in their view. I would suggest this should be about persuasion.

 

If you are an employee (and with your length of service) you have some protection if you wanted to raise a grievance about it as they couldn't just bin you off without a potential claim for unfair dismissal but if your employer is not nice they can make things, shall I say, more uncomfortable for you there, although they shouldn't. The only other option I could see is a flexible working request but that is simply a request to change your hours that they must consider, but they can always reject and can take 12 weeks or so to go through properly.....so could be a huge waste of time, but at least it gets them thinking about your issues and it and can be less likly to get a hostile response from the employer.

 

Happy to answer any questions you have on the above.

 

However, are you stating that you work 7 days a week? half days or not? as you may be able to use the working time regs to influence them

Edited October 13, 2013 by Offkey81
re-read and posed a question

[Offkey81]

No wonder there are not more people 'trying' to help others in here because if you do (and others dont agree with your approach 100%) it gets a bit weird - All my questions were valid and gives a better picture of the circumstances than just saying (its all about the contract) as my answer above shows. relax, I am only trying to contribute and not take your places........

[Shazza50]

I do realise they have things covered in my contract, its just the fact that he offered me 2 afternoons off and then made it out that because 'we', myself and the other lady, couldn't agree, when I did and she didn't, that he changed it to suit her.

When I first started there were 3 of us working on the counter side, this company had taken over 12mths before (previously a family business). My 32 hours were over 4 days, and we were expected to do 1 in 3 Saturdays above the 32hrs, for 3hrs, we got 4hrs time owing for it, which we could accumulate to give extra time off, it was something that they 'just did from when the previous owner had it' I was told. After me being there 6mths the company said we could no longer have 4hrs back, just the 3hrs and we couldn't accumulate them either. Couple of months later, they gave the Saturday hours to a young girl from another branch, as the one she worked at stopped opening on a Sat. Great, no more Saturdays. Until, earlier this year she left, and now we are down to 2 staff and we now have to cover Saturdays again .

The top and bottom of it is, we haven't enough hours between the two of us to cover the shop hours when it comes to days off, holidays and sickness and the manager hasn't any spare staff now in the dispensary to step in but someone sat in an office is saying we are overstaffed overall. The change to our days doesn't help whatsoever, if I take holidays, he still needs someone to work the days that I would be in and the other lady not in, and vice versa.

Just out of interest, how much notice should I expect for them to change my days?

[Offkey81]

Hi shazza,

 

Do you work 7 days a week? sorry if you answered it I just cant see it.

 

Whilst I understand what your saying these situations are usually best resolved through negotiation (I know that sounds weak but hey ho). If you can put these points to them and get reasoned responses it may help. Someone else may have a better option or idea.

 

As for notice, if its not stated in your contract its usually whats 'reasonable' in most cases I think, I may be wrong on that (because in cases where the change is not permitted by contract - seemingly unlike your case - it would usually be your statutory/contractual notice period but I am a getting a tad confused on this) - I know that doesn't really answer it so apologies. Again someone else may have a better idea than I on this

 

Maybe I should jut add that we, as yet, dont now the contractual position of your colleague, her contract may be different to yours and may be why they are trying to please her more, she might even have some reasonable adjustments in place due to disability, hidden or otherwise that they canot discuss with you.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Offkey81

[Shazza50]

I work 32hrs over 4 days one week, 5 days another week because we now work alternate Sat.

[Offkey81]

Im all out of option now I am afraid, hopefully the others currently viewing the thread will get back to you on the stuff I have confused myself on eg. notice. Good luck

[Shazza50]

Thanks for your help anyway. Like I have said before, changing our days is not of any benefit whatsoever as which ever way you look at it, we are still doing the same amount of hours between us and because we are not both in together every day, at some point he will still need his dispensary staff to cover when we have holidays etc. Lets just say, he is of a culture where women are not allowed to have a say and he likes to be in control!!!

[Emmzzi]

Shazza,

 

they need to give "reasonable" notice - sadly this is not tightly defined. The only way to check if it is reasonable is to let a court decide, and that would seem like a needlessly painful exercise.

[Shazza50]

Well nothing has been said today, so looks like he is letting me have 2 afternoons off, starting next week, however, he has now thrown another spanner in the works , so I will start a new thread on that one.

[Emmzzi]

it's fine to keep it on one thread, the background can be useful