A few questions about the interview notes for my ESA Appeal. - ** WON **

[sparky514]

thanks HB, won't do it again, but I was just replying, the poster had already mentioned the site.

[Teej75]

If I've sussed correctly; the decision under appeal was made on or after 28 January 13 following a work capability assessment, and completion of an ESA50 about three months earlier. A very basic summary of the criteria applicable to your appeal;

 

Yes, interviewed in Dec 2012 and got the decision in Apr '13.

 

The descriptors are the ones I've linked to in #13,

 

Thanks.

 

You can only score points from physical descriptors that arise from bodily disease or disablement and from mental descriptors that arise from mental illness or disablement.

Would a tribunal typically accept my testimony without supporting evidence? A friend told me today about a guy who failed a tribunal and was later diagnosed with a cyst on the brain so it seems to be a lot more difficult now.

 

Or you can be treated as having limited capability for work, if you can show that work would constitute a substantial risk to the health of you or someone else.

 

I've had to sure that this is the case and recently i put it to the test, now i am certain. I'm a lot worse than i realized but i haven't been out of my comfort zone for such a long time. I'm absolutely certain my issues aren't MH but physical i just don't know if i will be able to get anywhere with my GP.

 

Yes, you need to get supportive evidence from doctor/medical records, another professional who's involved in your care, a carer/flatmate, about how your conditions affect day to day life. Is the breathlessness that stops you walking round a supermarket consistent with your cardio problems? Dou you need a chaperone to the doctor to keep you safe if you have a panic attack?

 

I'm getting a support letter from someone whose known me for years and how the issues have prevented me from attending courses and starting up my own project in the past. The issues is chronic exhaustion that limits what i can do physically and it's cumulative and all the stuff i experience normally is made worse and i can take days to recover. Everything i do is based around my condition even where i live. The letter from my GP says it's caused by anxiety and the long term prognosis is unclear, i don't know if it will help or not.

 

Traditionally tribunal members have kept out of the Tatos debate but more recently there's been some barbed comments sent back to Jobcentreplus. The template submission in CAG's guide to appeals, is an ideal format for a submission to discredit that error strewn ESA85 and explain why you believe you should be awarded employment n support.

 

The CAB advisor is going to write the appeal but i thought about submitting my own account of what i've experienced over the years, it took 3 years and about 10 GPs to get a referral for my sinuses and i was diagnosed with chronic sinusitis. I think something similar is happening now so i feel like it's pointless but i have no choice. I though the errors in the form would be enough with my account of things

 

Hopefully, what I've written will help you to make an informed decision about whether to try for a postponement. If you're knocked back you've nothing to lose by preparing as best you can for your scheduled hearing. Are you taking a friend/partner for moral support? S/he won't be allowed to speak for you but they may be asked if they've any comments to add to your oral evidence.

 

Definitely and I am. I have to see a GP to be referred for a second opinion and my appointment is the day after the tribunal. It gives more time to build the appeal and look at my medical records anyway but i think you're right about preparing,at least if i take it further i've done everything i can. Thankyou again, your help has been invaluable. Best,

 

Teej75

[Teej75]

My CAB advisor asked for an adjournment but it was refused. All i have is the GPs letter and four support letters and i've written the descriptors out. I'm just wondering if there's anything else i should do. The letters do support what i'm appealing but i really don't know what to expect. Cheers.

 

Teej75

[**Margaret**]

:Teej75:

 

'I've written the descriptors out.' Are Citizens Advice still writing up your appeal submission from your paragraphs? If not, use :honeybee13:'s template to do the best job you can, even if it's only sentences about where Atos got it wrong and why you meet the applicable descriptors. With some examples of the adjustments you have to make, day to day, for your limitations. It doesn't have to be a copperplate submission. Having thought about how your diagnosed conditions affect you will help you to answer the panel's questions.

 

One the day, arrive in very good time and take three copies of your evidence with you. Tribunal venues vary in the amount of photocopying they're prepared to do and panel members have more time to read if they're not waiting for photocopies or sharing.

 

During the hearing, don't try to shoehorn your answers into a nearest match tick box format or the legal technicalities. Most tribunal panels are well used to flustered go-it-alone appellants, so just be yourself and explain how it is for you. And whilst there's exceptions to every rule the video below is typical of the tribunals I've been to as moral support. #23 of;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?386694-resuming-esa-after-atos-assesment

 

Margaret.

Edited November 20, 2013 by **Margaret**

[Teej75]

Hi Margaret,

 

I've been advised to ask for an adjournment, my advisor went off sick and i didn't see another till two weeks ago so she needs more time to write the appeal and gather evidence. All i can do is take what i've got but i can't do 3 copies of all the documents in time so i'll just take what i've got and hope they adjourn to add the evidence.

 

The advisor also mentioned that the DWP should have requested info from my GP during the reconsideration when they called me which they don't do, do you know anything about that?

 

Thanks for the video, it's not as scary as what i had in my mind.

[**Margaret**]

:Teej75:

 

Fraid I'm not going to be much use here.

 

Cos of the pressure on the Tribunals Service my guess (but it's only a guess, I've no professional experience) is that problems with representation will only be grounds for adjournment if the judge decides that to hear the case on Thursday isn't fair play. Tribunal panels have an over riding objective to deal fairly and justly with an appeal. And speaking as I've personally found, most of them do.

 

Fingers crossed, Margaret.

 

(Jobcentreplus should have requested info from your doctor? Don't think we know. Currently, for claimants with mental health problems, the issue's in the Court of Appeal.)

[sparky514]

my son has had a few appeals, 5 I think up to now and he has won 4, the best thing you can do is answer honestly and as fully as you can, try not to answer just yes or no to any questions, and remember they only want to know how you where when you filled in the ESA form, it wouldn't matter if you'd had a major operation 3 weeks before, good luck x

[Teej75]

:Teej75:

 

Fraid I'm not going to be much use here.

 

Cos of the pressure on the Tribunals Service my guess (but it's only a guess, I've no professional experience) is that problems with representation will only be grounds for adjournment if the judge decides that to hear the case on Thursday isn't fair play. Tribunal panels have an over riding objective to deal fairly and justly with an appeal. And speaking as I've personally found, most of them do.

 

Fingers crossed, Margaret.

 

(Jobcentreplus should have requested info from your doctor? Don't think we know. Currently, for claimants with mental health problems, the issue's in the Court of Appeal.)

Yeah i really don't know what to expect so i'll try and be prepared. I'm hoping they will be fair cause the WCA is not. As long as they are really independent they should see the reality of my situation. The support letters outline what i'm appealing against anyway. Thanks.

[Teej75]

my son has had a few appeals, 5 I think up to now and he has won 4, the best thing you can do is answer honestly and as fully as you can, try not to answer just yes or no to any questions, and remember they only want to know how you where when you filled in the ESA form, it wouldn't matter if you'd had a major operation 3 weeks before, good luck x

Thanks i will. My CAB advisor thinks i should be in support group and that's from the one time she met me! I do feel unprepared though but i just want to get it out the way and if i lose appeal or make a new claim. I don't want to go through xmas with this hanging over my head, the stress just makes things worse.

[Teej75]

I won and it thanks in large part to the help i got here. I'm absolutely shattered but relieved, it will take a couple of days to sink in. They ruled not to be reassessed for 24 months which i didn't expect. Big thanks to you all for the help.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

That's great, well done. I'll amend your thread title. Thank you for letting us know.

 

HB

[sparky514]

great stuff, well done, must be a relief for you x

[Teej75]

Hello again.

 

That's great, well done. I'll amend your thread title. Thank you for letting us know.

 

HB

 

NP!

[Teej75]

great stuff, well done, must be a relief for you x

You could say that. I'll update tomorrow, just wanted to say a big thanks to Starryeyes52, i wouldn't have done it on my own without the help i got here. I used legal aid last time so was totally in the dark with this and at one point thought i didn't have a chance cause of how the WCA went.

[**Margaret**]

:Teej75:

 

It's really hard to be told, after n years on incapacity benefit, that you're fit for work and there's little professional help for an appeal. Happened to a close friend of mine. Which led us to CAG. So pleased we could help you land your entitlement.

 

Hopefully, without the distraction of an appeal, you'll now be able to concentrate on that second opinion for a diagnosis and appropriate treatment. Or at least some support to manage your problems for the best day to day life you can have.

 

Take care, Margaret.

[Teej75]

Thanks Margaret. I expected it after what i read from others, i knew i'd get 0 points no matter what i wrote.

 

So i wanted to be sure that my issues prevented me from working cause people who know me thought i wouldn't have a chance on physical grounds and i'd rather work than be going through this every few months. Then i got conflicting advice from CAB just before the tribunal and then they refused the postponement the day before.

 

So yeah it really helped. I did what i could from the help i got here and i'm sure it made the difference. I'm just enjoying the peace now. I don't know what WRAG entails and i'm not sure if i should be in support group so i my have more to go before it's over.

 

My advice to anyone is stick to your guns and get an advocate or welfare rights advisor straight away when you get the ESA50.

[Teej75]

I meant to ask couple of things. Should it take 8 weeks to get the ESA instated and how long would i have to appeal to be put into support group? Thanks.

[**Margaret**]

:Teej75:

 

For you, initial work related activity will involve work focused interviews with an adviser at the Jobcentre to discuss what you can do to prepare for work. Updating your curriculum vitae, training, voluntary work, but you can't be mandated to apply for a job or undertake work experience. Neither, with a twenty four months prognosis (whenever it dates from) can you be mandated to the work programme.

 

Unless you're 110% sure you meet one of the descriptors for the support component I'd forget it. First tier tribunal decisions can only be appealed to the upper tribunal if the decision or the reasons for it contain a legal error. Usually needs professional representation, takes for ever and there's no assessment rate employment n support pending the outcome. There's some info about the statement of reasons, which it's worth getting anyway, and errors of law at;

 

http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/appealing-upper-tribunal-against-first-tier-tribunal-decision

 

Should your condition(s) worsen or you find you can't cope with work related activity, an easier and safer option is to ask Jobcentreplus for a new decision about your capability for work related activity.

 

A few upheld tribunal decisions are processed within six weeks, most take far longer. If you feel you've waited too long, it's worth checking Jobcentreplus haven't lost their copy of the decision.

 

Margaret.

Edited November 27, 2013 by **Margaret**