FCC - Caution Received on wrong use of PhotoCard Season Ticket !

[bsat]

Hi There

 

Caught up in an unfortunate situation and need advise on next steps.

 

Issue :

 

I and my wife are good, hard working, law abiding, tax paying citizens.

 

On 29-Sep, it was a stressful day after bad arguments at home.

We both were not in a good state of mind.

I have taken the car away to a Friends place, while wife decided to visit Luton Mall with my son so would have an peace of mind.

We usually go to Luton from Leagrave by our Car, but as I was away, she thought to take train (FCC is the TOC in this case).

 

When approached Leagrave station, she didnt spot anyone in counter and the train was already due, so we have rushed to the train, as I already had my monthly seasons travel card.

 

She never realised its incorrect to use my travel card, until She and my son (4 yrs) was stopped by the RPO officer in Luton Station.

She is not used to monthly seasons ticket and its terms and conditions, as She works locally in Luton in Hospital.

 

Only I commute to London for work.

Also whenever we travel to Luton or London, we used to go by Car.

So she never realised the mistake of use of travel card, until she was stopped and told so RPO.

 

Then he interviewed her, taken details, address etc and cautioned her, explaining that we'll receive the letter for prosecution in 2 weeks time.

 

It was completely an error in judgement, she completely understand the mistake now, as well the loss of revenue to FCC.

She never intended to evade tickets, but its lack of understading of the rules and regulations of my seasons ticket.

She called me only when she has got held and signed-off forms with RPO. We certainly have some lessons learnt.

 

Apart of loss of 15 days worth of travel card confisticated (which is worth £230), we are also worried on the prosecution or any other criminal records this would cause.

My wife is in medical profession and will signigicantly impact on her career.

We both are very worried for the past week for this unfornuate sitation.

 

We are happy to compensate all loss of revenue and any adminstrative cost in this regard for FCC and sure have our lessons learnt, behing first time.

But I'm really loss of next steps here.

 

Should we need to wait for the letter from Prosecution Section of FCC, or shall we proactively call them,

explain this and seek out of court settlement.

 

We wish to resolve the issue amicably without an criminal records.

 

Kindly advise on how to proceed.

 

Thank you again for your assistance.

 

Answers she provided for the Questions in the Form :

 

Do you have a valid ticket or authority to travel for your rail journey at this time : No

Where did you commence your rail journey today : Leagrave

Where are you travelling to by rail today : Luton

Do you have the means now to pay for your rail journey today : Yes, got cash

Was it your intention to avoid your rail fare today :

Not really. Usualy I used to go to Luton to visit Luton Mall with my husband in car. Since my husband is away and I wanted to visit, I have taken rail. And no one in counter, in leagrave and I have just rushed to take the train.

[dx100uk]

await the letter

 

then state [without the waffling] what happened.

 

it was a one off mistake.

offer [as you've obv read elsewhere here]

to pay all reasonable admin costs and likely fines

 

I very much doubt this will lead to court nor a criminal record.

 

however, it is likely to cost +£400.

 

dx

[firstclassx]

await the letter

 

then state [without the waffling] what happened.

 

it was a one off mistake.

offer [as you've obv read elsewhere here]

to pay all reasonable admin costs and likely fines

 

I very much doubt this will lead to court nor a criminal record.

BUT ONLY IF THEY ACCEPT (AND PAY) FOR AN OUT OF COURT SETTLEMENT

 

however, it is likely to cost +£400.

 

dx

 

 

 

Whilst the bottom line is (in this case at least) - an out of court settlement will be accepted, that will be of an amount that reflects the offence(s), administrative costs of processing and a punitive element. It is likely to be (financially) less than what a court would sentence, and obviously doesn't come with a criminal record, so it is mutually beneficial to both parties.

 

If, however, an out of court settlement doesn't get offered, or accepted by the offender(s), then it is highly likely, (I'd say somewhere between 75% and 90% likely), that this WOULD go to court, and, in this instance, FCC would be almost certain to win if using the Railway Byelaw offence(s), and I suspect would have a good case for a Regulation of Railways Act offence.

[bsat]

Hi

 

Further to my post above, we had received the 'notice of intention to prosecute' in the last week of October, for which we have responded within 21 days explaining the circumstances as explained above.

 

Due to holiday season or so, but we have received court summons in the first week of Jan-14. But within the same week we have also received an another letter from the prosecution team that they have received our letter (sent by 21 days) and considered our circumstances, and requesting us to get in touch at the earliest convenience.

 

The Summons were quoting that they will prosecute against Railway byelaw 21(2) and 18(1).

 

On back of the letter, spoke to the prosecution team and explained that circumstances and that mistake. The officer was happy to settle the issue out of court if we are happy to pay the charges incurred - £140 for prosecution and £1.90 for fare, by writing a letter. Also mentioned that we don't need to respond the summons. On back if this discussion, We have sent them letter saying so.

 

They have acknowledged within a week that they have considered and happy to settle the matters by paying necessary cost, as well have given the numbers to call and pay. We have called them the next day and paid by card. Within couple of days we have received the receipt, with no further action. Thus the meter settled 2 weeks back.

 

I still have coupe of queries, which I'm sure this forum can help.

 

For an immigration requirement renewal, we have to provide the details if any cautions, warning or out of court disposal in the application.

 

Does the original witness statement by RPI saying my wife is being cautioned is same as police caution ? Will it be in the police database ? is this simple caution ? Note that my wife was not told anything like - ' Don't say anything that'll affect you court.. Etc..'. But she was asked and shown an ID proof / bank card. As some reference say that byelaw has strict liability, yet won't reflect in CRB checks etc, if under Railway bye law ? So bit confused on what's right.

 

Does the out of court disposal will be reflected in police record or caution, saying the issue is closed, as we have received summons and it 'll still have some reference.

 

Sorry for the long mail, but some explanation would really help. Thanks for the support.

[BazzaS]

 

 

They have acknowledged within a week that they have considered and happy to settle the matters by paying necessary cost, as well have given the numbers to call and pay. We have called them the next day and paid by card. Within couple of days we have received the receipt, with no further action. Thus the meter settled 2 weeks back.

 

I still have coupe of queries, which I'm sure this forum can help.

 

For an immigration requirement renewal, we have to provide the details if any cautions, warning or out of court disposal in the application.

 

Does the original witness statement by RPI saying my wife is being cautioned is same as police caution ? Will it be in the police database ? is this simple caution ? Note that my wife was not told anything like - ' Don't say anything that'll affect you court.. Etc..'. But she was asked and shown an ID proof / bank card. As some reference say that byelaw has strict liability, yet won't reflect in CRB checks etc, if under Railway bye law ? So bit confused on what's right.

 

Does the out of court disposal will be reflected in police record or caution, saying the issue is closed, as we have received summons and it 'll still have some reference.

 

Sorry for the long mail, but some explanation would really help. Thanks for the support.

 

 

"Does the original witness statement by RPI saying my wife is being cautioned is same as police caution ? Will it be in the police database ? is this simple caution ? Note that my wife was not told anything like - ' Don't say anything that'll affect you court.. Etc.."

 

It is open to confusion that "caution" has at least 2 distinct meanings :

1) A formal caution where an offender accepts their guilt of an offence and accepts being given a caution (at a police station, and usually by an officer of rank of inspector or above). This is the type of caution that has to be declared for e.g. Immigration or enhanced DBS, but is not the same as:

 

2) A PACE 1984 caution prior to interview, of the sort made famous by TV police shows "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something that you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence".

This is to allow the persons answers to be given in evidence.

 

The first requires agreement of both parties, as it is an acceptance of guilt.

 

The second doesn't require agreement of both parties ( although they'll usually ask if the person being cautioned understands. Of course, understanding isn't the same as agreeing!.

 

So no, I don't think you need to declare being given a PACE caution, not the administrative settlement, provided:

 

"Does the out of court disposal will be reflected in police record or caution, saying the issue is closed, as we have received summons and it 'll still have some reference. "

 

I'd suggest you contact the court and ask for written confirmation that the summons has been withdrawn.

[dx100uk]

yes well done

 

as said you MUST contact the court,