Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • doesn't matter you've admitted about the DN and anyway where have you done that and to whom?   by assignment arrows are the creditor regardless to your acking of that fact or not.      
    • Just ignore the letter.   Block/bounce their emails or let them come through so you know what they're up to, and keep us posted.............   😎
    • Thanks DX,   I've already admitted that a default notice was served in 2010 by MBNA, so it seems I might be left hoping that they're unable to produce the original CCA.   I've never acknowledged Arrrow as the creditor and continue to pay MBNA.  Is that in my favour?   Cheers,   Richard.
    • For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]       please answer the following questions.       1 Date of the infringement  10/07/2019       2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]  12/07/19      3 Date received  13/07/19      4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?/    Yes      5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?  yes      6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]  yes  Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up  yes      7 Who is the parking company?  Civil enforcement      8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]    10B QUEENS ROAD, CONSETT, DH8 0BH       For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Yes    …………………..     This is what I sent to CE appeal in my own words   Reason For Appeal: Firstly I had an appointment at that time with the dentist. My last visit 2 years ago the car park was free and was not aware of the new parking system.   The sign at the front is very obscure especially turning right into the car park. Where I did park, the sign opposite was turned 90 degrees making it hard to see.   The door at the surgery was wedged open when I entered not realizing there was a sign relating to the new system . I cannot remember if there was any signs inside the surgery but once in I always pick up a magazine to read until the dentist is ready to see me.      My statement and evidence to POPLA. in response to CE evidence highlighting main arguments.   Par 18 . The image submitted from the Appellant of a sign slightly turned is still readable and is not obscured...….. Me Not from where I was parked. A photo from the bay shows a pole with the sign facing away.  Par 18 . Furthermore, it highlights that the Appellant was aware of the signage on the site and failed to comply with the terms and conditions regardless.......  Me I treat this paragraph with contempt. There is nothing to "highlight" here as I maintain I did not see any signage; Regardless ? I could have legally parked right outside the Surgery as there were spaces at the time but having "regard" for disabled and elderly, parked further away having to cross a busy road to the Surgery. Par 20....,. Furthermore, the Appellant failed to utilise the operator’s helpline phone number,,, (displayed at the bottom of signage) to report the occurrence, or to request advice on what further action could be taken.... Me How could I have done this ? I only realized there were signs there when the PCN arrived. Summary. I stand by statements and maintain that I did not see any signage entering or leaving the car park. The main sign at the entrance is too small and easily missed when you have to turn right though busy traffic and once through carefully avoid pedestrians, some walking their dogs. The main sign is blank at the back. When you leave the car park I would have noticed the private parking rules if the writing was on both sides. Roadworks signs close to the parking sign at the time did not help either. [see photo] CE evidence is flawed, illegal and contemptuous. Photos submitted are from months ago, Today I have driven into the car park and noticed the same signs turned 90 degrees including the one opposite my bay. CE have done nothing to rectify this disregarding my evidence and the maintenance of the car park. Showing number plates is a total disregard to patients privacy and I object to these photos being allowed as evidence on the grounds that they may be illegal.    POPLAS assessment and decision....unsuccessful   Assessor summary of operator case   The operator states that the appellant’s vehicle was parked on site without a permit. It has issued a parking charge notice (PCN) for £100 as a result. Assessor summary of your case   The appellant states that he parked on site to attend a dental appointment. He states that the terms of the site had changed since the last time he parked two years ago. He states that signage at the entrance to and throughout the site did not make the terms clear. The appellant has provided various photographs taken on and around the site. Assessor supporting rational for decision   The appellant accepts that he was the driver of the vehicle on the date in question. I will therefore consider his liability for the charge as the driver.   The operator has provided photographs of the appellant’s vehicle taken by its automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras. These photographs show the vehicle entering the site at 14:17 and leaving the site at 15:13. It is clear that the vehicle remained on site for a period of 56 minutes.   Both the appellant and operator have provided photographs of the signs installed on the site. The operator has also provided a site map showing where on site each sign is located.   Having reviewed all of the evidence, I am satisfied that signage at the entrance to the site clearly states: “Permit Holders Only … See car park signs for terms and conditions”.   Signs within the site itself clearly state: “DENTAL PRACTICE PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY … ALL PATIENTS AND VISITORS MUST REGISTER FOR A PERMIT AT THE PRACTICE RECEPTION ... IF YOU BREACH ANY OF THESE TERMS YOU WILL BE CHARGED £100.”   The signs make the terms of parking on the site clear, are placed in such a way that a motorist would see the signs when parking and are in line with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice.   The operator has provided evidence to show that a search for the appellant’s vehicle has been carried out against the list of vehicles for which a valid permit was held on the date in question. The appellant’s vehicle does not appear on this list.   The appellant states that he parked on site to attend a dental appointment . I accept that this may have been the case, however I do not accept that this entitled the appellant to park on site outside of the terms.   The appellant states that the terms of the site had changed since the last time he parked two years ago. The operator’s photographs of the signage on site are dated 27 March 2019.   It is clear based on these photographs that the terms had been in place for at least three months by the time the appellant parked, which I am satisfied was a reasonable period for any regular user of the site to adapt to any change to the terms.   The appellant states that signage at the entrance to and throughout the site did not make the terms clear. He has provided various photographs taken on and around the site.   As detailed above, I am satisfied based on the evidence as a whole that signage made the terms sufficiently clear. I am satisfied from the evidence that the terms of the site were made clear and that the appellant breached the terms by parking without registering for a permit.   I am therefore satisfied that the PCN was issued correctly and I must refuse this appeal.   docs1.pdf
  • Our picks

gh2008

Friend needs help MCOL claim received***Claim Dismissed***

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2061 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Long time since I have been on here - hope you can help a friend of mine in need, I have never come across anything like this so am out of my depth :(

 

MIf0LGg.jpg

 

This MCOL POC has been received by a friend. As with all of these types of disputes it is rather sad & very, very messy.

 

In a nutshell (I hope)

 

The claimant's family owned a pub, the defendant lived there with the claimant's sister.

In 2008, The claimant's family bought a 12mx6m 'marquee'/party tent for the pub. This was used for various beer festival summer party events and those type of things.

 

In 2009 the pub went bust, the marquee was removed and stored at claimant's premises prior to the receivers attending.

Summer 2010 Claimant's sister declares bankruptcy

 

Summer 2010 marquee used at a football tournament by claimant

Autumn 2010 sister & defendant became civil partners and marquee was used together with a new identical one (owned by someone else) for the reception at the stables where claimant's sister worked.

Pictures from the reception show many missing parts to pub's marquee & held together with ratchet straps & cable ties.

 

Both marquees then left at stables in an open sided barn.

 

Summer 2011 the new marquee was taken from stables by claimant's sister, used by claimant and then removed to defendant's garage by sister (at this point defendant & sister were not at a good stage in their relationship & Police were involved).

 

Claimant's sister sacked for gross misconduct (violence towards staff & customers) at stables

Xmas 2011 claimant's sister imprisoned (on remand, refused bail) for criminal offences against defendant

Claimant (& other family members) warned by Police re harassment of defendant.

New marquee i.e. not the ex-pub's one removed from garage returned to stables by owner to make space for the sister's belongings to be removed from house ready for collection by third party.

 

Spring 2012 claimant's sister imprisoned again for repeatedly breaching injunctions against defendant

 

Claimant collects (his) marquee from stables

Writes to defendant, saying badly stored, damaged & incomplete then issues an invoice to defendant for double the price of a new replacement. (Claim is for £900+ new they are £450)

 

During the letter ping-pong, the Defendant questioned ownership, denies any liability for safekeeping/storage (down to sister/claimant), disputes invoice, urges claimant to seek proper legal advice.

 

Claimant confirms ownership as being bought personally by sister (never owned by pub??), then transferred to claimant as part payment of a debt owed to him

 

Claimant also claims lost income as well (subsequently dropped in claim)

 

Defendant requested details of original purchase, date of transfer (as sister went bankrupt on or around the same time so either property not declared or debt not declared at time of bankruptcy). Copies of his accounting records showing the value of the marquee when brought into his business, depreciation etc etc & recording showing historic income generated by the marquee

 

Defendant retracts loss of income & now denies running any business, but stands by issuing the invoice and demands payment

 

LBA received but no copies of documents. Mediation offered at cost to defendant

Reply to LBA again requesting documents and adding that photographs of the marquee in 2010 may be used in any defense. Paying for mediation refused but will accept court appointed mediation.

 

 

So, as I said one real mess. The problems I see in writing a defence are

1. He should be claiming damages not an unpaid invoice then could defend on denying liability etc

2. An incomplete (in 2010 before any involvement of the defendant), commercially used, 7yr old party tent is not worth anything anyway! He is claiming double the price of a new one! Attempted unjust enrichment or what!

3. the POC is err, not sure how to describe it

 

Unfortunately 'the family' want to have a go at the defendant because the sister got booted out of the marital home with nothing except the clothes on her back and several injunctions & restraining orders together with an order to pay the defendant's legal costs of >£24,000 (which obviously she will never get back)

 

So, what is my friend's best course of action.

  • Simple denial defence and let it go to court (if it is not struck out at the court's own will)
  • Full detailed defence to all possibilities
  • Apply for a proper POC
  • Apply for a Summary Judgement / strike out
  • Something else?

 

Hope you can help


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those are terrible POC's. Even worse than most DCA's. It's more like a story than a legal claim POC.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, throughout the whole sorry mess we have urged him to seek proper legal advice (I think his 'strings' are being pulled by others. But, him & his family know best!!

 

Problem is as they are not really a POC at all it makes it difficult to know what is best action to take, there is nothing to really to get started with.

The defendant doesn't have money to go to a solicitor (her parents raised the previous £24k :( )


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, unless he submits additional information, then you could put forward a defence saying you have no idea of the claim as the POC's are minimal at best.

 

Im not the best to ask about court claims, but i think im right when i say that so far, you have nothing to defend without further info.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing 'Devil's Advocate', the problem I see with that is because of the letter ping-pong, it is clear the defendant knows exactly what the claim is about.

In one letter the claimant was told he should not be issuing an invoice and suing for non-payment but suing for damages and that he needs to work out the damages & show the defendant's liability, having first proved it was even his. (At this point we realised that he was not going to stop so were hoping for a proper POC)

 

My experience of small claims is that almost anything goes on the day if it gets to court, especially when it is between 2 LiPs


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not saying he doesnt know about the claim, im saying that the POC's are insufficent unless he adds further points. There is no mention of money etc, or anything really. It's pretty much a rambling story and not a descriptive or short POC.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, misunderstood your post :oops:

 

back to this then

 

 

So, what is my friend's best course of action.

  • Simple denial defence and let it go to court (if it is not struck out at the court's own will)
  • Full detailed defence to all possibilities
  • Apply for a proper POC
  • Apply for a Summary Judgement / strike out
  • Something else?

 

I am not sure of the best course of action especially as it is between 2 LiPs


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any chance you could scan the full page N1 gh and the right way up...Im getting a crick in my neck and cant really make it out.Is it a money claim or a PT8 claim?

 

Regards

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for looking in Andy

I will get it scanned in properly and emailed to me tonight and I will post it up.


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jGRVUH2.jpg Edited by gh2008
removed password & barcode

If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could use CPR part 18 to ask what parts are supposed to be missing.

 

Or simply ask for proper PoC ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I would be inclinded to file a defence clearly setting out the reasons why the claim is disputed and let the claim proceed through the court system.

 

The POC is not well written but I think the nature of the claim is clear. The Claimant is claiming that the Defendant is refusing to return the missing parts for a marquee. For this reason I don't think you would get an order that the POC should be rewritten and I'm not sure what this would achieve. The POC has no suggestion of a claim for bad storage and the Defence should not pre-empt this: just focus on the simple allegation in the POC.

 

I don't think you could get a strike-out or summary judgment. For these the claim generally needs to be hopeless based only on the documents ... while your description makes the claim sound hopeless these are evidential issues which the court could only decide at a hearing. You would also have to come up with the court fee.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Personally I would be inclinded to file a defence clearly setting out the reasons why the claim is disputed and let the claim proceed through the court system.

 

Thank you for your advice. AFAIK, the missing parts have been missing since it was used in 2010. It is only now, in the POC that he is saying the parts exist and that the defendant is not returning them (which is untrue). Until now (and in the LBA) he was saying that the defendant had not stored it properly and that it had been damaged.

 

In the defence, should it be a short and concise? One just denying the allegations in the PoC? i.e. ownership, that it was ever stored with the defendant's agreement, that it was moved etc

should it also cover the fact that the claim is for an unpaid invoice (rather than what it should be)?

should it cover the fact that a new replacement is £450? or not go there and confuse things

 

Thanks again for everyone's help - way forward is getting clearer now


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Defence does not need to be very detailed, but it should raise any points which you might wish to raise in court. I would certainly cover all the main points you mention - ownership of the marquee, denial of being responsible for the missing parts, denial of possessing the missing parts, cost of the replacement being around 450 (and putting Claimant to proof as to the cost of a replacement). It is best to put each point in its own short, numbered sentence or paragraph.

 

The point about the invoice can be mentioned, but legally I don't think it matters a great deal whether this is treated as a claim for an invoice or a claim for damages.

 

Happy to look at a draft Defence if it would make you feel more comfortable.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to update the thread with the outcome - my friend won (easily)

 

It did actually go all the way to trial !!

 

I assisted my friend as a McKenzie (sp?) friend. The Judge was very good. Explained the Law carefully re bailment

 

Basically and ignoring any of the disputed facts over ownership, whether it was ever in my friend's care or even its value, as the alleged bailment was for the sole benefit of the bailor (the Claimant), then the Claimant had to prove 'gross negligence' in the care of the property in order to be able to make any claim.

 

The Judge carefully explained this at the beginning of the trial. I made a big thumbs up to my friend under the desk :-D

 

BTW the Claimant had COMPLETELY changed the 'story' between the LBA and the WS presented to Court!!

The carefully drawn up list of questions to ask the Claimant on the day where he had contradicted himself was swiftly reduced to a single question which just highlighted his complete lack of any proof of anything.

My friend did not need to add anything on the day to her defence/ws and the Claimant didn't know how to react to that and didn't ask any questions either

 

So, case dismissed & some more Law learnt :whoo:

 

Thank you to those who assisted on here.


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats.

 

I hope you asked for some costs, you should of prepared a Summary Assesment of Costs before hand and sent them to court and other side using the £18ph LiP rate and the tried to argue that the Judge award costs as the claim was vexatious and had no prospect of success and he didnt comply with the Pre-Action CPR, etc.. no doubt the Judge would of stuck to the small track rules and awarded no costs except for court fees and money for time off work, did you/your friend ask for/get these ?

 

Its worth mentioning the Summary Judgement/Strike Out process, this can be used to dismiss meritless/useless cases and as its pre-allocation you can claim costs, but there is a costs risks should the other side 'win' or pursuede a Judge that it should go to trial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had spoken about costs and the Judge did prompt my friend BUT my friend cannot put a price on having nothing ever to do with this family again. and for the sake of £80 or so ...

 

So best just left ...

 

 

just fo rinfo - the costs aspect was included in the WS and the Judge dealt with it with the Law in his opening address saying as it was 2 LiPs then the only costs he would allow would be the 'normal' SCT ones


If you find my advice helpful - please click on my scales

<<<<<< - they're over there!

Well, it's a funny black star now ...

The small print - any advice I give is freely given on the understanding that I am a layman and am not legally qualified in anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough..its always worth asking for costs you are entitled to..Court Fees (which as defendant you prob didnt have) and time off work (upto £90) :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice one gh...thread title amended to reflect the result.

 

Regards

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent news :)


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...