Halifax sold account whilst in agreed payment plan now with Lowell

[Kayyak]

I've been searching and searching and found a couple similar to mine below. One comment stated this type is an application form, another thread stated it is enforceable, so I am really confused.

 

The credit limit states "they will decide the credit limit and tell me what it is" not sure if this is acceptable, as I did read that this could be ok. There is no lenders signature, and the General T&C are missing, not sure how important that is.

 

 

[vint1954]

I am afraid that I think this one is enforcable.

[Kayyak]

Thanks Vint, thought as much.

 

Halifax agreed an informal arrangement, of which I kept to.

 

They received payments on 2 Feb and 2 March (I actually paid a little more than £25).

Then on 11 March they terminated the account.

 

It's now with iQor (not sure if purchased debt as I am awaiting SAR details)

 

I really feel that I need to respond to iQor, but not really sure how to go about it.

 

Am I right in thinking I should keep the above info to myself until they go down the court route and then I can use it as a defence?

A solicitor is now chasing me on their behalf so I want to put things back in their court,

 

any suggestions?

 

Just for my information,

the DN was dated Wed 9 Dec 2009 to rectify by 30 Dec.

Did I have 14 clear days?

 

At first I thought I had but bearing in mind Christmas holidays were strange last year.

Christmas Day was Fri and I think Monday was bank holiday?

I didn't keep the envelope as I only recently found this excellent site.

 

 

[vint1954]

Their DN is actually complient, even if sent second class, assuming that they have not asked for the full ballance in the notice.

 

You realy need to go back to the solicitors and halifax, reminding them of their agreement to reduced payments for 3 months and the action they have taken in between.

[Kayyak]

Tomorrow I will be sending a letter to Halifax outlining the above.

[Kayyak]

Since my last posting,

 

I wrote to Halifax and informed them that they had confirmed an informal agreement for 3 months of which they terminated within the first 6 weeks.

 

I accepted their termination of the contract and unlawful termination of the 3 month temporary agreement and pointed out the doctrine of promissory estoppel.

 

I also requested compensation for this which would effectively clear the debt.

 

I have now received their reply.

 

They admitted that they 'had made a mistake'.

They will remove the original default placed on my Credit file,

issue a correct one and

return the account to their recovery section.

 

I can avoid a new DN by paying the minimum of 1% per month and for the privalege will now be charged with interest again at my previous rate.

ie they want to re-open the account AFTER THEY HAVE TERMINATED IT (and passed onto DCAs)

and set everything back to the first original agreement.

 

They have totally ignored the fact that I was in an informal arrangement with them.

 

They state will not award compensation unless I can demonstrate I have been impacted financially by their mistake.

 

I have been reading and reading and can't quite find the answers I need.

I know they cannot re-open the account as it has been terminated

and I have proof of this

and as such there is no live account to default.

 

I would be grateful for any other suggestions as to how I should respond also to the temporary 3 month contract (promissory estoppel).

 

They seem to have ignored this bit.

[gh2008]

TBH, I'm not sure there will be much you can do

 

An enforceable agreement, a valid DN and terminated after DN expired = they are entitled to full balance

 

There may be an argument for unfair agreement with their behaviour surrounding the informal agreement, however a Court would agree that what they are doing to rectify is adequate

 

jmho

good luck

[Pumpkinhead]

Kayak

 

it would be interesting to see a copy of your DN if you could post this up, together with any termination letter you received.

 

Did you remedy the breach in the original DN (i.e. pay outstanding arrears)?

 

I suspect they may say at some stage that it is standard practice to terminate an account when someone advises they are in financial difficulties

- not that this makes it OK to terminate, if you follow me.

 

Can't help on the estoppel bit, but hopefully another Cagger can.

[The Mould]

Hello again Kayyak

 

Yes I see that your case has comparators with 'wish me well's' case and you know the end result of that said case don't you.

 

So Halifax think they have a legal right to unilateral reinstatement of the contract,

they need your express consent to the reinstatement,

 

keep a close eye on your credit files (hopefully you will have printed off the evidence of the closed account, if that info has been entered there by Halifax),

 

all three credit files that is, Kayyak.

 

Write them a very short letter regarding your non-consent to reinstatement of an agreed extinguished contract.

 

Perhaps it might be a good idea to refesh your memory on WMW's case with the Halifax and see if you can add anything from that case into your letter.

 

I shall keep a look out for you on this case, don't be worrying too much about Halifax.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[Kayyak]

Thanks, yes WMW has helped me in getting this far.

 

Should I mention anything regarding their "informal arrangement"?

 

This is where I am getting confused, as to contract law which may over-ride the CCA.

 

I've received a statement today, so they've now re-instated the account,

 

and in capitals they state if I do not pay they will take the money from any current or savings account I have with them.

 

Just found out that some Natwest (RBS) accounts are being sold to Santander which would affect me as I have accounts with both.

 

Luckily for me my account is excluded.

[Kayyak]

Just had second thoughts,

 

Natwest does come under Halifax.

 

I've been paying them the minimum.

 

I think I may stop payments so they default and terminate me.

 

That way they cannot increase my overdraft with them.

[gh2008]

NatWest is part of the RBS Group

Halifax is part of the HBOS Group so, no, they are not linked

 

Just bear in mind that IF they have served a valid DN, then by refusing to re-instate the account, the balance will be payable on demand, rather than as per the agreement.

 

As you did not rectify the original DN, again as long as it is valid, they do not have to issue a new one.

 

jmho

[Kayyak]

Thanks for all your replies and clearing up the RBS/HBOS bit - they sound so similar (both Bank of Scotland?).

 

I have said the DN is valid based upon dates,

but the amount of arrears would have included charges although these were minimal.

 

I guess that could be classed as de-minus.

 

I only had approx 3 months of penalty charges. I could argue either way, valid (on dates) or invalid based on the amounts.

 

Their letter states

"I can see that we have failed to provide you with a full Notice of Default before referring your account to our Recovery Agents.

... I am willing to remove the default marker".

 

I cannot see anything on my SAR notes confirming a DN was sent

- so they think they have acted unlawfully by terminating with no DN.

 

Once the account has been set up, if there is no payment made by myself, they will be issuing me with a DN.

 

The full balance has already been requested by them and further by a DCA.

 

If I accept them re-instating it, I will be worse off as they will then start to charge interest

and the whole process of DN and termination would happen again.

 

My SAR also states their "promise" (the informal arrangement) with an end date of May,

but they terminated the account in March.

 

Surely this plays a big part in their error and is favourable to my case?

[The Mould]

Kayyak

 

For the duration of that temporary agreement their strict rights were suspended,

however,

they went back on their word and excercised their strict rights,

they terminated,

you accepted the ending of the agreement,

the two parties were in agreement to the same thing (the ending of the contract),

the two parties also need to agree to the same thing now,

 

the reinstatement of the contract.

 

You need to contact the credit referrence agencies and state that you have not given your express consent to reinstatement of this contract/agreement

and therefore you insist that the credit referrence agencies cease accepting any further data

from Halifax in relation to this extinguished agreement/contract as Halifax do not have your express consent

to process/disclose your personal subject data to any third party, organization or individual.

 

State to them that this account/agreement/contract was terminated/cancelled by way of mutual agreement between you and Halifax on xxxxxxxx date.

 

Send Halifax a very firm (but polite) letter stating the facts of this matter and that your express consent is required to reinstate the contract,

 

Halifax repudiated the agreement at a time when the two parties were in agreement under that said temporary contract

which is evidenced in writing and at that said time their strict rights were suspended and therefore their actions were inequitable,

 

you will pay any arrears that were due before they repudiated, but you will not pay a penny more,

 

if they want to commence with litigation against you they are at liberty to do so,

but you will defend any action brought by them vigorously, you have documentation to substantiate your defence and you can rely on the common law of contract.

 

I will add further to this shortly.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

PS. I did receive pm but my pm facility is still not working properly.

[Kayyak]

Hello The Mould,

 

Thank you so much for replying, you have given me some good foundations to work on. I have been thinking of negotiating some sort of offer to settle this and if they were to re-consider compensation I may be able to bring this to an end. I have requested reports from CRA to be sent via the post, printer was down.

 

Kayyak

[Kayyak]

Thanks for pm and words of encouragement, we are thinking long the same lines.

[Kayyak]

Received response today from customer services (legal team no longer involved). They defended all my claims, ignored the temporary contract and will be referring the account back to the DCA.

[The Mould]

Received response today from customer services (legal team no longer involved). They defended all my claims, ignored the temporary contract and will be referring the account back to the DCA.

 

Hello Kayyak

 

Firstly, the fact that they have removed the account from the legal department says it all.

 

Who is the DCA, is it their 'in-house' B, O & S Ltd?

 

Write a short letter to all three credit reference agencies informing them that you are not in any relationship with Halifax

and that there is no contract/credit agreement between you and Halifax,

 

go on to state that, Halifax do not have your express consent under any agreement/contract

and therefore the processing of your personal subject data [is] unlawful,

 

inform the credit reference agencies that they are not entitled to allow any further information from the Halifax to be recorded on your files

and insist that they cease to enter any further communications from Halifax in relation to your personal subject data,

 

repeat, there is no relationship, no contract, no agreement, no account in legal existence between you and Halifax,

the information that they are permitting to be entered is incorrect and unlawful.

 

Give them 14 days to correct the information to show the factual status of the account, that is, terminated, closed cancelled and the figure is £xxx (the arrears figure Kayyak).

 

Forget entertaining Halifax and their 'in-house' DCA, remain firm, show them your resolute position in this matter, if they instruct a third party dca, then post up and let me know.

 

Halifax you are a load of B*****KS! And you know it!!!

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[Kayyak]

Thanks Mouldy. The DCA is an external one, just waiting to hear from them in the near future. CRA files show an 'end date' of March with the Halifax . Will get those letters off this week. Just have concerns now with their informal contract side of things?

[Kayyak]

Halifax replied stating they have deal with complaint and I can complain to FOS (thought this might be waste of time though so haven't done this).

 

They stated the debt is being passed back to Capquest.

 

However, I now have had letters from another DCA!

I have thought of some options but not really sure which route to take:

 

1. send prove it letter

2. Send letter stating unfair trading that 2 DCAs collecting (although not heard from Capquest)

3. Tell them it's in dispute (and poss send FOS letter)

[diddydicky]

as far as i can see you have a compliant agreement |(the copy sent to you does not need to include sigs or sig boxes and as an application form is valid if it (although blanked out) contained your signature and all of the prescribed terms

 

the DN dates are valid (don't know about the rest of it)

 

 

so all in all i'd say that in court you dont have a leg to stand on

 

the "termination" of an agreement to make repayments is of no significance IMO

 

you need to come to a mutually agreeable settlement of the matter (IMO)

[tony3x]

I have just received a copy similar to the one posted although my request was sent in November 09. I will post up in my own thread later.

 

One question - neither mine or the original posters agreement seem to have been signed by the Halifax, I thought this was necessary for it to be fully executed.

 

May be someone can shed some light.

[Kayyak]

This is now active again.

 

A quick summary (as title does not reflect issue).

 

I had an formal written agreement with Halifax to make £x per month for 3 months,

but after 6 weeks, although I kept to dates and amounts, they terminated the agreement and passed the account onto IQor.

 

It's been to various DCAs and they've returned to Halifax at my request.

 

I then made Halifax a full and final offer quoting estoppel and this was declined.

Just recently, this has been sold to Lowell.

 

I would like to deal with this to get rid of it once and for all and would appreciate caggers thoughts on whether I should make a F&F offer to Lowells to settle this.

 

They have sent me various letters which I have been ignoring and they note that they are aware of no known issues.

 

I know I could request that they send this back to Halifax, but I got no-where with Halifax so believe this is pointless.

 

Any thoughts on how I stand with Lowells?

[Kayyak]

I was in a 3 month payment plan with the Halifax and

they informed me it would be reviewed after that time and nothing would happen if I kept to my payments.

 

However, I kept up my payments as agreed, but

 

after 6 weeks out of the blue they terminated the account and sold it on to a DCA.

 

I did contact the Halifax but had no response and also wrote to their legal department but they dismissed it.

 

It's been to a couple of DCAs since and has recently been sold to Lowell.

 

From reading on here I am concerned I may get a SD or CCJ.

 

I have ignored Lowells letters so far thinking that if I got court papers I could use estoppel and it might be in my favour.

 

However, I am now thinking I should deal with this before it goes legal

and would appreciate some thoughts on how I should proceed.

 

Should I be revealling all my information to Lowell and be upfront?

Or keep some things to myself?

 

I am thinking of making a full and final offer just to get rid of them, and the debt,

or should I tell them to return it to Halifax?

 

It might be better if I had a different DCA as I know Lowell are difficult.

[dx100uk]

tell us the history of the debt please

 

and is it on your cra file?

 

dx