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    • I'm trying to understand it all but I certainly tend to agree with my colleague @dx100uk that it looks as if you may have been taken for a ride. You found an advertisement for a bag on an online sales site. Instead of going through the established procedure of that site, which presumably allows them to recover a commission from the seller you started dealing directly with the seller who is an unknown person to you and of course that allowed the seller to avoid paying the commission. At whose suggestion was it that you went off-site? You then pay by PayPal but instead of logging it with PayPal as a payment for a purchased item, you tell PayPal that it was actually simply a gift or transaction between friends and family. This also allowed the seller to avoid paying a PayPal fee on the money. At whose suggestion was it that you paid in this way?       I don't say that you definitely have been scammed, but it doesn't look very good. This is how it might have happened: after you agreed to take the transaction off-site, so you lost the protection of the established system – and the seller avoided the commission and also avoided the sales site knowing that they had sold their item, you then agreed to pay the seller some money – but not for a purchase – simply as a gift. This has two consequences. Firstly, the seller avoids a PayPal fee and secondly, because PayPal has been misled as to the purpose of the payment, you lose the protection of PayPal if it turns out that you've been scammed or there is some other problem with the transaction. The seller then apparently sent you the parcel and they sent you pictures of a package with your address on it. Separately they sent you a Hermes tracking number – but there is no evidence that the package was actually posted to your address. The seller might simply have taken a picture with your address and sent that to you by way of reassurance – and then changed the label and posted the parcel to themselves but sent you a tracking number which is inaccessible to you and in respect of which you will be prevented from getting any information. All you've seen is a parcel with your address on it. All you've been given is a tracking number which satisfied you for a while until the parcel did not arrive and then when you started to make enquiries, you found that you were unable to access any details referring to the tracking number. Of course the tracking number says that the item was delivered – because maybe it was – but in that case it was delivered to the address on the parcel which might have been the seller's own address – or the address of a friend. I don't want to say that this is definitely how it happened, but it is a plausible scenario. Of course Hermes is an awful lot of parcels – but on the other hand I expect that most of the parcel is that going to Hermes hands are delivered successfully. We only get the bad stories on this forum. I can imagine that Hermes rate of successful deliveries is better than 97% because otherwise people wouldn't simply just hate them, they would go out of business.   We can help you bring a complaint against Hermes if you want. However, on the basis of what you say, the odds are stacked against you but it would be useful to try and find out the address which was associated with tracking number. As far as your apparent willingness to travel hundred and 50 miles to ask for your money back, don't bother. If you did actually go there, are you sure that the seller actually lives at the address that you have been given? What evidence do you have that? Of course if you found that the seller didn't reside at that address then it is slamdunk that you have been scammed. But then what are you going to do? You can try to inform the police but of course it won't get you anywhere. You can inform the sales website – but they will say that you brought it on yourself because you agreed to go off-site. You can inform PayPal – that they will say that because you sent the money which was calculated to avoid their fees, you have lost the protection. If you travelled the 150 miles and found that the seller did reside at that address, do you really think that they are going to hand your money over to you? If they are acting dishonestly then they will simply say that it is nothing to do with them, that they addressed it all correctly and they don't understand what has happened and that this is simply Hermes up to their old tricks. What are you going to do? You simply risk getting into a very nasty argument and depending on how bad it went, you might even find that the police are called and I'm afraid that they would be looking at you – not the seller. Maybe you can answer the questions that I've post above as to who it is who initiated the various ways of doing business.    
    • The legal campaign's going well then. The recount in Wisconsin gave Trump more votes but Biden even more, at a cost of $3m. And a donor to the organisation bringing the failed cases is suing to get his $2.5m back.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/joe-biden-gains-votes-in-wisconsin-county-after-trump-ordered-recount
    • Yes Unicorn feed tax again, can't sue the keeper for more than the Original Charge, so any additional Debt Collection fees aka the £60 they add is abuse,iof process as per HHJ Harvey at Lewes county Court What lookedinfroinfo is indicating is that the main signage on entry and dotted around is merely an " Invitation to Treat", not the offer, the Offer and Acceptance occurs at the payment machine, so wording there is key.
    • Hello and welcome to CAG.   People will be along later to advise you, please bear with us until they're able to get here.   In the meantime, I suggest you edit your attachment because you've left your name on it. Please check it carefully and remove anything that can identify you.   HB
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I have a debt for council tax outstanding from last year for £750 and

 

I have an arrangement with the bailiff to pay £150 per month.

 

I have made the first three payments,

but I will be a week late in making payment this month and

the bailiff's office has told me to contact the bailiff directly.

 

Are they normally ok with this or are they likely to attempt enforcement?

 

Many thanks for any advice.

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I have a debt for council tax outstanding from last year for £750 and I have an arrangement with the bailiff to pay £150 per month.

 

I have made the first three payments, but I will be a week late in making payment this month and the bailiff's office has told me to contact the bailiff directly.

 

Are they normally ok with this or are they likely to attempt enforcement?

 

Many thanks for any advice.

 

Why are you even paying the bailiff? Pay the Council directly using their online payment system.

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do they have a levy on your goods

 

they wont be happy and will attempt enforcement and want you to pay in full

 

you should get in touch with your council don't let them fob you off its their debt and they can instruct the bailiffs to accept your payment a week late without charging you an attendance to remove fee (if they have a levy on your goods)

 

If your council wont play ball get in touch with your councillor and MP

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Outstanding c/tax from last year is £750 plus charges £200, less £450 paid.

 

Estimated auction value of goods levied before auctioneers fees is around £250.

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Looks like bailiffs have done levy just to gain fees

You need a breakdown of the fees bailiffs have added to the account

 

As the bailiffs have been in your property they can NOT force entry at this point

They will possibly turn up in a van whether you in or not and add another £180 to the account

 

Bailiffs have a liability order nothing else no locksmith no nothing deal with the council

If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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When I speak to the council, they say they can't help and I have to deal with the bailiffs.

 

That is what they always say they are incorrect

 

There is no law that stats you must deal with the bailiffs deal with council directly

Remember bailiffs lie

only special powers they have is keep a clean shirt with the amount of dribble they come out with

If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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What have they actually levied on - exactly as described on the Notice of Seizure? Have you had a proper breakdown of the fees they are charging? Is the money you were alleged to owe confirmed with the Council or is it what the Bailiff says you owe?

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Sorry Tom, I don't have the figures to hand. Levy is on a 20 year old leather three piece suite, which I would pay someone to take and a six year old 40" LED tv, plus DVB player - same age as the tv and £30 when new.

 

Is there a way to get the council to take back the old debt?

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Sorry Tom, I don't have the figures to hand. Levy is on a 20 year old leather three piece suite, which I would pay someone to take and a six year old 40" LED tv, plus DVB player - same age as the tv and £30 when new.

 

Is there a way to get the council to take back the old debt?

 

Looking at what you have described about the levy I would hazard a guess that there are no safety labels left on the 3 piece, also if it were to be removed for sale would you have sufficient seating left for each member of the household? The DVD has no value and the TV would be of little value at that age. I would argue the Bailiff has only made a levy to gain a financial advantage for himeself & his company.

 

If you owed £750 to start with then the minimum value of goods to satisfy that, in my opinion, would be somewhere around the £5k mark. The Bailiff should be aware that to make a seizure of goods and to remove them for sale at auction the value should be enough to:

1 - cover all the Bailiffs fees

2 - cover the costs of removal & storage

3 - cover the costs of the auction

4 - cover the Auctioneers fees

5 - pay a portion of the debt owing

Clearly yours does not and the levy should be challenged with the result of the Levy Fee & all associated charges be removed.

 

As to how to get the Council to take your account back - this is a little more problematic depending on the Council. Their usual attitude is that it is in the hands of the Bailiff and they cannot interfere. What they all forget is that they are 100% responsible for the actions and charges of thier contractors. We can already see from the levy they have taken they are fleecing you and this could be 1 course of complaint to the Council.

 

As others have said stop paying the Bailiff and pay the Council direct via online banking, Council website or automated phone line. If so pay the same amount at regular intervals - £10 every Thursday fo example. This quickly builds a payment history and proves you are willing to pay. It will upset the Bailiff and he will make all sorts of threats - Police, locksmiths, imprisonment, committal order etc etc. You do have to ride this out but eventually he gets the message & passes your account back to the Council - may take another 3 months or so.

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Thanks for a comprehensive answer Tom.

 

What would you suggest as my first move contact the bailiff or the council tomorrow?

 

You could send something similar to this to the Bailiff Co - obviously substituting for the car - this is just a generic letter.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. I note your Bailiff has made a Levy on a Ford Dipstick, Reg No: Z999 CAR. However I wish you to note that the value of this car if taken for sale at auction would raise at most £2-50. As you doubtless know any goods seized for sale at auction must cover the bailiff costs, removal costs, all auction costs and a proprtion of the debt I owe.

 

The above being confirmed by the Judgement of Throssell v Leeds City Council where the judge states:

as for your car how old is it? I.E. would the sale of it actually cover a large percentage of the bill anyway?

a vehicle should only be removed if the proceeds of sale provide that there would be a surplus available to the liability order after deductions for the bailiff fees, , removal storages and auctioneers fees.

 

As this clearly does not cover all these costs I put it to you that your Bailiff has a Levy that makes a financial gain for both him/herself and your Company.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

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Followed by a request for a breakdown of the fees they are charging. This can be sent initially by email followed by a copy in the post.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

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What's the best way to quickly stop them turning up with a van and adding to the debt.

 

There isn't unfortunately, there is no logic as to what goes on in their craniums. They think they have you by the "cobblers" and are of the impression you know nothing. Once they realise you do know a little then they may be a bit more wary. One thing I can guarantee is that if you are late paying they will insist that the agreement is broken & you must pay in full whilst they add ever more increasing charges. It may already surprise you to find out how much they have already held back from paying to the Council as Bailiffs are allowed to deduct their own fees first.

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

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OK, I will call the council first with the questions you suggest. I have covered the bailiffs charges - do I have any leverage if they haven't forwarded the balance?

 

Would you suggest writing the letters above or ringing the bailiff on the off chance they agree?

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OK, I will call the council first with the questions you suggest. I have covered the bailiffs charges - do I have any leverage if they haven't forwarded the balance? At the moment no.

 

Would you suggest writing the letters above or ringing the bailiff on the off chance they agree?

 

Only ever ring a Bailiff if you can record the call - they have very poor powers of recalling what was said otherwise. Use text, email or letter. Personally I wouldn't contact them.

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If they fail to appreciate they will be losing out by enforcing the debt, how long does it normally take to arrange warrants for entry. locksmiths, etc.

 

That won't happen. He may throw his toys out of the pram instead.

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With Council Tax you get the visit by the Bailiff whose object is to get you to cough for what you owe or failing that a levy on goods that if you fail to pay will be removed and sold at auction.

 

In your case the Bailiff has levied on goods that appear to be of little value and therefore his levy should be invalid. The Bailiff will argue that his levy is valid and if you fail to pay he will attend to remove the goods for sale. Even though he gained entry previously you do not have to let him back in again, he may threaten to force entry but probably forget to tell you he needs permission from the Council to do so - after all if there was a long list of people where they just forced entry then that would make the Council even less popular. If the Council did agree then he would have to go back to Court for an order from the magistrates - very rarely given and even if they agree he must then write to you giving a time & date when he will attend. Only then if you refuse entry can he force entry.

 

In the meantime you have already made payments but are unsure on what exactly has been passed over to the Council. You then make further payments direct to the Council and before you know it everything is paid up. The Bailiff in this time will have been sickened off attending only to come away empty handed each time so hands it back to the Council anyway.

 

Plan of action:

1 - ring the Council and ask the questions posed earlier - you may be surprised at the answers

2 - send off for the breakdown of charges

3 - send the letter challenging the levy

4 - if the Bailiff calls speak to him through the letter box or upstairs window.

 

I never said it was easy or that it would happen overnight, you have to be in it for the long run and be prepared to stand your ground as Mr bailiff is an expert at lying, cheating, bullying & intimidation. Have a good read of some of the other Council tax threads on here to get a feel for how it pans out.

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