Late with council tax payment to bailiff

[ruth101]

I have a debt for council tax outstanding from last year for £750 and

 

I have an arrangement with the bailiff to pay £150 per month.

 

I have made the first three payments,

but I will be a week late in making payment this month and

the bailiff's office has told me to contact the bailiff directly.

 

Are they normally ok with this or are they likely to attempt enforcement?

 

Many thanks for any advice.

[gordies]

I have a debt for council tax outstanding from last year for £750 and I have an arrangement with the bailiff to pay £150 per month.

 

I have made the first three payments, but I will be a week late in making payment this month and the bailiff's office has told me to contact the bailiff directly.

 

Are they normally ok with this or are they likely to attempt enforcement?

 

Many thanks for any advice.

 

Why are you even paying the bailiff? Pay the Council directly using their online payment system.

[hallowitch]

do they have a levy on your goods

 

they wont be happy and will attempt enforcement and want you to pay in full

 

you should get in touch with your council don't let them fob you off its their debt and they can instruct the bailiffs to accept your payment a week late without charging you an attendance to remove fee (if they have a levy on your goods)

 

If your council wont play ball get in touch with your councillor and MP

[ruth101]

They have levied but nowhere near the value of the debt, even with the balance after payments.

[filrobbo]

Is the sum of mony they say you owe got there charges added on . If so can you give us a brake down

[ruth101]

Outstanding c/tax from last year is £750 plus charges £200, less £450 paid.

 

Estimated auction value of goods levied before auctioneers fees is around £250.

[i hate bailiffs]

Looks like bailiffs have done levy just to gain fees

You need a breakdown of the fees bailiffs have added to the account

 

As the bailiffs have been in your property they can NOT force entry at this point

They will possibly turn up in a van whether you in or not and add another £180 to the account

 

Bailiffs have a liability order nothing else no locksmith no nothing deal with the council

[ruth101]

When I speak to the council, they say they can't help and I have to deal with the bailiffs.

[i hate bailiffs]

When I speak to the council, they say they can't help and I have to deal with the bailiffs.

 

That is what they always say they are incorrect

 

There is no law that stats you must deal with the bailiffs deal with council directly

Remember bailiffs lie

only special powers they have is keep a clean shirt with the amount of dribble they come out with

[ploddertom]

What have they actually levied on - exactly as described on the Notice of Seizure? Have you had a proper breakdown of the fees they are charging? Is the money you were alleged to owe confirmed with the Council or is it what the Bailiff says you owe?

[ruth101]

Sorry Tom, I don't have the figures to hand. Levy is on a 20 year old leather three piece suite, which I would pay someone to take and a six year old 40" LED tv, plus DVB player - same age as the tv and £30 when new.

 

Is there a way to get the council to take back the old debt?

[ploddertom]

Sorry Tom, I don't have the figures to hand. Levy is on a 20 year old leather three piece suite, which I would pay someone to take and a six year old 40" LED tv, plus DVB player - same age as the tv and £30 when new.

 

Is there a way to get the council to take back the old debt?

 

Looking at what you have described about the levy I would hazard a guess that there are no safety labels left on the 3 piece, also if it were to be removed for sale would you have sufficient seating left for each member of the household? The DVD has no value and the TV would be of little value at that age. I would argue the Bailiff has only made a levy to gain a financial advantage for himeself & his company.

 

If you owed £750 to start with then the minimum value of goods to satisfy that, in my opinion, would be somewhere around the £5k mark. The Bailiff should be aware that to make a seizure of goods and to remove them for sale at auction the value should be enough to:

1 - cover all the Bailiffs fees

2 - cover the costs of removal & storage

3 - cover the costs of the auction

4 - cover the Auctioneers fees

5 - pay a portion of the debt owing

Clearly yours does not and the levy should be challenged with the result of the Levy Fee & all associated charges be removed.

 

As to how to get the Council to take your account back - this is a little more problematic depending on the Council. Their usual attitude is that it is in the hands of the Bailiff and they cannot interfere. What they all forget is that they are 100% responsible for the actions and charges of thier contractors. We can already see from the levy they have taken they are fleecing you and this could be 1 course of complaint to the Council.

 

As others have said stop paying the Bailiff and pay the Council direct via online banking, Council website or automated phone line. If so pay the same amount at regular intervals - £10 every Thursday fo example. This quickly builds a payment history and proves you are willing to pay. It will upset the Bailiff and he will make all sorts of threats - Police, locksmiths, imprisonment, committal order etc etc. You do have to ride this out but eventually he gets the message & passes your account back to the Council - may take another 3 months or so.

[ruth101]

Thanks for a comprehensive answer Tom.

 

What would you suggest as my first move contact the bailiff or the council tomorrow?

[ploddertom]

Thanks for a comprehensive answer Tom.

 

What would you suggest as my first move contact the bailiff or the council tomorrow?

 

You could send something similar to this to the Bailiff Co - obviously substituting for the car - this is just a generic letter.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. I note your Bailiff has made a Levy on a Ford Dipstick, Reg No: Z999 CAR. However I wish you to note that the value of this car if taken for sale at auction would raise at most £2-50. As you doubtless know any goods seized for sale at auction must cover the bailiff costs, removal costs, all auction costs and a proprtion of the debt I owe.

 

The above being confirmed by the Judgement of Throssell v Leeds City Council where the judge states:

as for your car how old is it? I.E. would the sale of it actually cover a large percentage of the bill anyway?

a vehicle should only be removed if the proceeds of sale provide that there would be a surplus available to the liability order after deductions for the bailiff fees, , removal storages and auctioneers fees.

 

As this clearly does not cover all these costs I put it to you that your Bailiff has a Levy that makes a financial gain for both him/herself and your Company.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[ploddertom]

Followed by a request for a breakdown of the fees they are charging. This can be sent initially by email followed by a copy in the post.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[ruth101]

Thanks Tom.

 

What's the best way to quickly stop them turning up with a van and adding to the debt.

[ploddertom]

 

What's the best way to quickly stop them turning up with a van and adding to the debt.

 

There isn't unfortunately, there is no logic as to what goes on in their craniums. They think they have you by the "cobblers" and are of the impression you know nothing. Once they realise you do know a little then they may be a bit more wary. One thing I can guarantee is that if you are late paying they will insist that the agreement is broken & you must pay in full whilst they add ever more increasing charges. It may already surprise you to find out how much they have already held back from paying to the Council as Bailiffs are allowed to deduct their own fees first.

 

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[ruth101]

OK, I will call the council first with the questions you suggest. I have covered the bailiffs charges - do I have any leverage if they haven't forwarded the balance?

 

Would you suggest writing the letters above or ringing the bailiff on the off chance they agree?

[ruth101]

If they fail to appreciate they will be losing out by enforcing the debt, how long does it normally take to arrange warrants for entry. locksmiths, etc.

[ploddertom]

OK, I will call the council first with the questions you suggest. I have covered the bailiffs charges - do I have any leverage if they haven't forwarded the balance? At the moment no.

 

Would you suggest writing the letters above or ringing the bailiff on the off chance they agree?

 

Only ever ring a Bailiff if you can record the call - they have very poor powers of recalling what was said otherwise. Use text, email or letter. Personally I wouldn't contact them.

[ploddertom]

If they fail to appreciate they will be losing out by enforcing the debt, how long does it normally take to arrange warrants for entry. locksmiths, etc.

 

That won't happen. He may throw his toys out of the pram instead.

[ruth101]

That won't happen. He may throw his toys out of the pram instead.

 

OK Tom, so how does it all end?

[ploddertom]

With Council Tax you get the visit by the Bailiff whose object is to get you to cough for what you owe or failing that a levy on goods that if you fail to pay will be removed and sold at auction.

 

In your case the Bailiff has levied on goods that appear to be of little value and therefore his levy should be invalid. The Bailiff will argue that his levy is valid and if you fail to pay he will attend to remove the goods for sale. Even though he gained entry previously you do not have to let him back in again, he may threaten to force entry but probably forget to tell you he needs permission from the Council to do so - after all if there was a long list of people where they just forced entry then that would make the Council even less popular. If the Council did agree then he would have to go back to Court for an order from the magistrates - very rarely given and even if they agree he must then write to you giving a time & date when he will attend. Only then if you refuse entry can he force entry.

 

In the meantime you have already made payments but are unsure on what exactly has been passed over to the Council. You then make further payments direct to the Council and before you know it everything is paid up. The Bailiff in this time will have been sickened off attending only to come away empty handed each time so hands it back to the Council anyway.

 

Plan of action:

1 - ring the Council and ask the questions posed earlier - you may be surprised at the answers

2 - send off for the breakdown of charges

3 - send the letter challenging the levy

4 - if the Bailiff calls speak to him through the letter box or upstairs window.

 

I never said it was easy or that it would happen overnight, you have to be in it for the long run and be prepared to stand your ground as Mr bailiff is an expert at lying, cheating, bullying & intimidation. Have a good read of some of the other Council tax threads on here to get a feel for how it pans out.

[ruth101]

Many thanks Tom. That covers absolutely everything for now.

[ploddertom]

Anything else don't be frightened to ask, there is usually someone around most of the time who can help.