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SD BWLegal/Lowells - 2003 Lloyds credit Card debt - **SET ASIDE**


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Hi everyone, I'm looking for some urgent guidance if anyone is able,

I had a Statutory Demand delivered at around 7pm tonight by a man in a flannel tracksuit.

 

When I asked who he was he said he had been asked to hand deliver a Statutory Demand on behalf of BW Legal.

He said that he was a 'courier' though I pointed out he had no ID or uniform (he was basically a bloke off the street by the look of him).

 

Not knowing what the envelope was i refused to take it.

He then said that BWlegal told him if i couldn't/wouldn't take the envelope he should still just leave it on the floor inside the door, which he quickly did before i could close the door.:mad2:

To my mind this is not 'hand delivered' so in no way properly served but please correct me if I'm wrong.:???:

 

The envelope just had my name and 'private' scribbled on it, otherwise just a white envelope, no other markings at all, very nondescript.

Inside were 6 pages all stapled together in one document which included:

- 2 page letter dated 24th September 2013 10 days ago (outlining the SD and threatening a bankruptcy petition)

- 4 page SD

 

The SD is for a 2003 Lloyds credit Card Account that has been in dispute since April 2009.

I sent in my CCA at the time, got no signed agreement back so sent an in dispute letter.

Then a month later I received a 'we've found it now' letter with a copy of the signed agreement with a page of partial terms which did not include all the clauses referred to in the agreement.

That being the case i left it thinking still in dispute and never SAR'd Lloyds.

 

Thereafter Lloyds chased repeatedly over the last 3 years, engaged DCAs to chase and eventually sold the debt to Lowell in July this year.

Since then I had 3 chase up letters from Lowell then this.:x

 

I will scan and post the docs but can anyone help me with some burning questions:

- I have 7-8 days left of the 18 I'm supposed to have and tomorrow is Friday, what is the first thing I should do immediately??:???:

 

- not truly hand delivered = not legal service of documents??

- deliberate 10 day delay in delivery something I can use against them?

- What is the prescribed format for a statutory demand?

- Any usual arguments to set aside SDs?

- Signed agreement with unrelated/incomplete terms = defence?

- Can I change the 'Appropriate Court for Setting Aside Demand' if it is not my most local court?

- Should I send any CCAs or SARs to Lloyds/Lowell/BWLegal?

:?::?:

 

Thanks everyone I hope you can help.

Cheers,

GF2k

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Yes it has been served and you now have 18 days to apply for the SD to be set aside. If you don't do this, then in theory, in 21 days they can apply for your bankruptcy. You can go to your nearest county court that deals with insolvency cases.

 

When did you stop making payments for this credit card ? Any excess charges and PPI that could be taken off ? What would the balance owed be, once any excess charges and PPI were removed ?

 

I am sure that tomorrow, when people are awake, you will get more responses.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for your quick response UB67,

So 18 days from now despite it saying Sept 24th in the letter?

There is no date on the envelope, no proof of delivery etc. would the court not assume 24/09+18 days not today+18?

 

Last payment was march 2009

No PPI.

Balance almost £11,000

 

Fingers crossed, I'll check again first thing tomorrow.

cheers,

gf2k

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the process server will inform the claimant upon the date and time it was served

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The date on the letter is just the date that the SD was posted to the Process Server with instructions to serve on you. Ignore it.

 

The Process Server will sign an affidavit confirming the time and date the SD was served.

 

It was served on you so the clock starts ticking from the day of service.

 

Can you please look on the top of the SD and give us the Court stationary number to make sure it is in the correct format.

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Thanks for your quick response UB67,

So 18 days from now despite it saying Sept 24th in the letter?

There is no date on the envelope, no proof of delivery etc. would the court not assume 24/09+18 days not today+18?

 

Last payment was march 2009

No PPI.

Balance almost £11,000

 

Fingers crossed, I'll check again first thing tomorrow.

cheers,

gf2k

 

Yes 18 days from now to do the set aside. The 18 days runs from the date you receive the SD through the door or in person.

 

Why was the debt in dispute from 2009 ? Some more details of the dispute about the CCA with only partial terms. Can you post up what they sent you at the time, removing anything which may identify you ?

 

My opinion is that once they sent you the partial CCA, as long as it contained most of the important information that you were entitled to have, that the account would not longer be in dispute. But others on CAG with more knowledge will comment on this further, if you can supply more details.

 

Due to the date of the account, BW Legal/Lowells will need to supply a full copy of the CCA and all changes to this over the period of the account, if you ask this to be supplied for any court process. I would also want to see the default notice to see whether this was compliant.

 

Do you have a house that would be at risk, if you were made bankrupt ?

We could do with some help from you.

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Question asked had already been answered :)

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

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Can you please look on the top of the SD and give us the Court stationary number to make sure it is in the correct format.

 

Hi Ganymede there is no court stationary number at the top or anywhere I can see.

It's all been laser printed by the looks of things , the SD is on the same white paper as the covering letter.

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Why was the debt in dispute from 2009 ? Some more details of the dispute about the CCA with only partial terms. Can you post up what they sent you at the time, removing anything which may identify you ?

Will do at lunchtime

 

My opinion is that once they sent you the partial CCA, as long as it contained most of the important information that you were entitled to have, that the account would not longer be in dispute. But others on CAG with more knowledge will comment on this further, if you can supply more details.

You're probably right but then why didn't this SD happen a long time ago?

 

Due to the date of the account, BW Legal/Lowells will need to supply a full copy of the CCA and all changes to this over the period of the account, if you ask this to be supplied for any court process.

 

So request that via ordinary CCA letter direct or one of the CPRs?

 

 

I would also want to see the default notice to see whether this was compliant.

I'll scan/post that up at lunchtime too

 

 

Do you have a house that would be at risk, if you were made bankrupt ?

 

Yes have a house so would be at risk

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https://www.gov.uk/statutory-demands/forms-to-issue-a-statutory-demand

 

You can check the forms on the link above.

 

Although if it is Lowells, I imagine they have got the right forms.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Will do at lunchtime

 

 

You're probably right but then why didn't this SD happen a long time ago?

 

 

 

So request that via ordinary CCA letter direct or one of the CPRs?

 

 

 

I'll scan/post that up at lunchtime too

 

 

 

 

Yes have a house so would be at risk

 

An SD can be issued at any time. Lowell appear to be selecting a number of cases per month to look at bankruptcy. This is mainly where they have identified that people have a property at risk, if bankruptcy were to happen.

 

CCA request letter, as I don't think the normal CPR letters apply to bankruptcy. I think you need to draw their attention to the previous failure to provide a copy of the CCA with all of the necessary information the last time the request was made in 2009.

We could do with some help from you.

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No need for a further CCA request. Have you ever advised Lowell that the CCA request has (possibly) still not been complied with?

 

To comply with the ruling in Carey v HSBC ( http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/3417.html ) you are entitled to a full and correct copy of the T&Cs and agreement.

 

However, although this immediate failure re the CCA request MIGHT get you off the hook this time, long term (or even if a judge gives them time) they may well be able to comply with it.

 

If there is no other reason than a failed CCA request for not paying, then you will probably have to start negotiating. Although the lack of a CCA is currently a bar to enforcement, it is not really a valid excuse to stop paying money that is owed – that’s a fallacy – and you may find yourself on thin ice if they come up with the goods.

 

So, were there any other valid disputes on the account, as Uncle has asked? I would suggest your best first step is to advise Lowell/BCW of the unfulfilled CCA request, and invite them to withdraw the SD. Then you can find out if they can come up with the goods.

 

Prepare your set aside based on non-compliance with the CCA request in the meantime.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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An SD can be issued at any time. Lowell appear to be selecting a number of cases per month to look at bankruptcy. This is mainly where they have identified that people have a property at risk, if bankruptcy were to happen.

 

Hi

 

Can you elaborate on your comment about people with a property at risk? What do you mean by property at risk?

 

Thanks

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Hi

 

Can you elaborate on your comment about people with a property at risk? What do you mean by property at risk?

 

Thanks

 

They can have the sale of their house forced on them to pay whatever amount is due following bankrupty. You will see a post on here from Wendyboats, where Lowells have made her bankrupt for a £1500 debt. This debt is now at £30k + and increasing, with the trustee wanting to sell her house.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Everyone,

I finally managed to scan everything in:

 

The CCA RESPONSE Letter

 

 

SIGNED CCA

- The Additional Cardholder section on the CCA refers to Conditions (3, 10 & 11) NOT present in the attached page of (partial) terms.

-Surely as I did not have all the immediately relevant terms & conditions when the CCA was signed, would that not make for a strong defence?

 

PARTIAL TERMS

 

 

DEFAULT NOTICE

- DN was Dated 12th, Received 16th, remedy deadline 30th)

 

 

 

 

 

 

STATUTORY DEMAND LETTER Pages 1 & 2:

- incorrect balance by couple pence

 

 

 

STATUTORY DEMAND FORM Pages 1-4:

Page 1

- incorrect balance by couple pence

 

Page 2

- incorrect Default Date, no DN received on the date given, the DN (link above) was received 3 months before.

- incorrect date of NOA stating the previous day (NOA link above)

- incorrect balance by couple pence

Page 3

 

Page 4

 

 

Please have a look and let me know what you think about the validity of the DN and CCA with Partial Terms, the mistake on the NOA, mistakes on page 2 of the SD and generally the layout of the 4 page SD if it is as it should be.

 

Also should I SAR?

 

Appreciate your help.

Thanks,

GF2k

Edited by Andyorch
Removed data as requested
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ideally you should be attaching docs after converting to pdf

 

makes thing a lot easier and keep the thread load time quick

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Others on CAG will advise you better on the set aside. I am not sure how you would flesh out an argument about the default notice being wrong and also about the CCA not containing all the relevant parts.

 

Gut instinct, is that you would be playing Judge lottery, where you do not know whether they will take seriously any arguments you put forward. You are not an expert on the technicalities of the Consumer Credit Act and could be up against the claimants Solicitors in a hearing. I am not sure you have much of a case to stop bankruptcy going forward. With a debt of £11k+, you are risking bankruptcy, plus all the various costs associated with this.

 

If I were advising a relative on this, I would advise them to see a Solicitor who specialises in Consumer Credit Act debts. You should be able to find one using the search tool on the Law Society website.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks UB67,

So at this point is it too late to try negotiating an arrangement to pay something each month?

Or even a settlement at a much reduced amount 20/25% if I could raise that?

 

If I go for a set aside does that mean I lose those options or is it better to go for it, look like you're putting up a fight and then negotiate?

 

Cheers,

gf2k

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Thanks UB67,

So at this point is it too late to try negotiating an arrangement to pay something each month?

Or even a settlement at a much reduced amount 20/25% if I could raise that?

 

If I go for a set aside does that mean I lose those options or is it better to go for it, look like you're putting up a fight and then negotiate?

 

Cheers,

gf2k

 

You can got some time to go before the 18 day are up for the set aside.

 

Wait to see if you get more responses over the next few days, before you think about offering repayment. Of course you can offer a reduced full & final settlement or a monthly payment offer.

 

If you read around on the internet, there are firms of Solicitors who will take on cases on a no win no fee basis to help you get this set aside. It is against forum rules to advise of any firm or point you to other forums. But there is a legal forum online run by a Solicitor, who deals with Consumer Credit cases/Bankruptcy and if you look at the bankruptcy page you will find their details. Because of the number of cases they must receive, they won't take it on, unless they have a good chance of success. I am not knowledgeable enough to know whether you have a strong case for a set aside. I could not see anything obvious.

We could do with some help from you.

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SB then?

 

No. If the last payment was March 2009, it won't be SB'd until March 2015.

 

OP needs advice before they do anything. I think they will need a Solicitor if they want to go for a set aside, unless someone on CAG spots something wrong with the documents posted, which makes it easy for them.

We could do with some help from you.

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Sorry DX,

any way I can change my previous post to strip out the images and instead include attachments?

Thanks,

GF2k

 

attach the pdf here please

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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If you follow this, we should then be able to read them.

 

Instructions on uploading pdfs

Scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all personal info including barcodes etc. using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

Go to one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new message box here

hit go advanced below the message box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB: you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

Then hit reply button

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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