Hull City Council sending Bailiffs for an unpaid parking ticket

[LynetteC]

A Bailiff hand delivered a letter today giving me 24 hours to pay £265 for an outstanding parking ticket. The thing is, I have written to the Local Authority twice about this, as I had used their automated telephone system a couple of days after receiving the fine and believed it paid.

 

The first I knew it was overdue was when I received a letter advising me that the fee had increased from £35 to £70. I wrote and told them that I thought this had been paid by telephone and asked that under the circumstances (i.e the apparent failure of their system) would I be expected to pay the additional £35?

 

I received no response to this letter until I received another notice taking the total to £105. I wrote again, enclosing the first letter asking for an immediate, urgent response as I did not feel that I should be liable for any charge over the £70, which I would have paid (under protest) had they responded to my initial correspondence. I also said that I felt that I was being used as a cash resource due to an innocent mistake on my part. Again, I have received nothing from the Local Authority until today.

 

I explained the above to the Bailiff over the telephone this afternoon, but he told me I have 24 hours to find £265 and if I don't pay it will go up to £320 then £380, etc. until I pay or he'll take my property.

 

I can scrape the money together, but I'm furious that it's come this far. What are my rights and do I have any recourse to claim some of the money back (I accept the first £35, possibly even £70, but no more) if I pay it out tomorrow afternoon?

 

Please can you advise?

 

Thanks.

 

Lynette

[ploddertom]

Have you chased up the Council to find out why they are ignoring you?

[wiseajak]

Dont pay a penny until u find out why the council are ignoring you, plus can u prove u paid it on their automated line?

What the bailiff is failing to tell you is he cannot take any of your property without a levy, this would mean gaining access to your house( only if you let him in, DONT!!!) u are well within your right to ask him to leave, if he refuses or try's putting his foot in the door call the police and have him removed.

 

Make sure any cars or outside property is well hidden or moved away from your house so he cannot levy on it.

 

Dont let him bully you either, any threats of arrest or police, forced entry or I'm gunna take your neighbours cat can be ignored as he can do none of it and does not have the authority.

 

Get onto the council go down there if need be and get to the bottom of it as if u have paid it this should of never come

About, take any proof with you, i.e., bank statement.

 

Hope this helps.

[LynetteC]

@ploddertom - I wasn't aware the council were ignoring me until my husband rang me at work today to tell me about the letter that had been shoved through the door.

 

@wisejak - The problem is that the payment failed to go through their telephone payment system - I didn't realise until I received the first letter and checked my bank statement. I don't dispute that I owe money - I initially asked if I would still be liable for the extra £35 given that I wasn't aware the payment had failed. Had I received a negative response, I would have paid the £70 on receipt. It's the fact that I've been waiting for a response that never arrived and now I have to pay £265 by tomorrow lunchtime to stop the charges from mounting up further.

 

I can telephone the council in the morning and ask them why they've failed to respond to my letters, but I had a similar situation a few years ago where they claimed they'd never received my correspondence - my husband thinks this will be their excuse again, and I wouldn't bet against him!

 

If I pay the initial £35 to the council in the first instance, can I then put the bailiff off and tell him I'm dealing directly with the local authority? I can tell my husband not to let him into the house and my car is parked at work so he won't find that. He's welcome to take the broken toilet that's in the garden waiting to go to the tip - it's about the only thing outside the house that's removable except our wheelie bins! I just don't want to be liable for even more charges though if I don't pay this demand that he stuck through the door today.

 

EDIT:

 

I'm concerned that the letter posted through the door today states that they haven't received responses to their previous correspondence as this is the first I've heard of Jacobs - or are they referring to the letters from the council?

 

I also forgot to ask about the advice the bailiff gave when I told him I did not have £200 - he advised me to apply to my bank for an overdraft or a small loan. Is it legal to advise somebody to take out more debt to clear a debt?

Edited October 1, 2013 by LynetteC
added information

[The Carpet Cleaners]

when was the court case?

for bailiffs to be involved there must have been a summons and a court case, if not then the "bailiff" must only be a debt collector, and as such has no powers. You should really go to the council in person, and not talk to them on the phone. Whatever happens do not let the debt collector/bailiff into your house.

[LynetteC]

I have no idea about a Court case.

 

The last correspondence I had was dated 21 June giving me 7 days to pay £105 (by cheque or postal order only!) before the case was transferred to the County Court.

 

The 21 June was a Friday, I received the letter the following Wednesday, 26 June, thus leaving me with only one day's notice - a fact that I raised in my last letter to the council when I requested that they withdraw my case from the County Court and reply to my query regarding whether or not I was liable for the additional £35 due to what could only have been a failure of their payment system.

 

I advised in this letter that I would pay the full £70 if necessary (under protest) but given my previous correspondence that had been ignored, I disputed being responsible for any other additional fees.

 

That was the last I heard and to be honest, it completely slipped my mind when I didn't receive a response.

[ploddertom]

It is largely an automated system. You receive a ticket, it goes unpaid, & eventually is sent to the Traffic Enforcement Centre where a Distress Warrant may be issued to the Council & they in turn pass on to Bailiffs for enforcement.

[LynetteC]

UPDATE:

 

I've been in touch with the council and surprise, surprise - they haven't received ANY correspondence from me! I actually found three letters on my computer in respect of this farce, (not two as stated in my original post) dated 15 May, 18 June and 26 June respectively.

 

I've been advised to contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court. I was told that I would be asked to provide a Witness Statement and that they would be able to put a hold on the bailiff - is this correct?

[ploddertom]

Yes. Usual procedure is that they can email you the relevant forms, you send them back and if received prior to 4pm can be dealt with same day.

[LynetteC]

 

Thanks ploddertom. You're right - I received an email from them, completed the forms and sent it back with scans of the letters I sent to Hull City Council that were somehow never received.

 

I've also sent a text message to the Bailiff giving notice that I have submitted an Out of Time Witness Statement to Northampton Court Court and therefore consider the proceedings suspended until further notice. I asked that he confirm receipt but so far have not received anything.

 

My main concern now is that he comes around to my house this evening and slaps a levy on my car. Can he do this?

[wiseajak]

I dont know for certain but if proceedings are halted then no i dont think he can but it stop him trying yo bump up his fees. Move ur car away from you house just to be safe .

[ploddertom]

Your Bailiff acts on instructions, he will have to wait until TEC contacts your Council, who in turn contact the Bailiff Co, who in turn contact the Bailiff. By having let him know what you have done he may plead ignorance to having received any message and attend just to be bloody minded. As said above move the car etc for 24 hours.

 

Also be aware that the Bailiffs are probably reading & monitoring this thread.

 

This is exactly why I sent a text message instead of telephoning him - I have the evidence on my phone that the message was sent at 12.44 today - right after the email was sent to Northampton Court.

 

How far away do I need to park? He has my registration so what's to stop him walking up and down the street looking for the car if it's not on my driveway?

 

Now I'm getting paranoid!

[wiseajak]

Dont Panic! Yea u have proof of a text

But he Will still deny it. Move ur car to a relatives or at least 10 mins away if u can. That way he has little chance of finding it.

[ploddertom]

Better still lock it in a garage - your own, a neighbours or a friend.

[LynetteC]

Thanks guys.

 

The car is parked away from home tonight, although I won't say in which direction in case of prying eyes!

 

However, I was thinking on the walk home;

 

1. Wouldn't sticking a levy on a 2009 plate VW Golf estate (worth at least £7k) be considered over-excessive in lieu of a £265 debt? and

2. Could the car be subject of a levy when strictly speaking it belongs to the finance company for another three and a half years or until I make a Final Payment, whichever comes first?

 

Either way, it's not here to be seen tonight. Thanks again for your support and advice.

 

Lynette

[ploddertom]

1 - not if it is the only item that may be seized if you have refused them peaceful entry to your home.

2 - if it is still subject to finance - as long as it is not a bank loan - then you could have left it in place as it is exempt from seizure - however you would have had to have had a copy of the agreement handy to give him as proof.

 

Done the right thing by playing better safe than sorry.

[LynetteC]

Following on from my post regarding Hull City Council sending Bailiffs for an unpaid parking ticket and my providing a Witness Statement to Northampton County Court :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?404544-Urgent-advice-required-Bailiff-letter-delivered-today-%28Parking-ticket%29&p=4355752&viewfull=1#post4355752

 

A couple of days ago I received a copy of an Order made on 11 November 2013 addressed to Hull City Council stating:

 

The respondent filed a statutory declaration/witness statement on 1 October 2013.

It is ordered that the order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge be revoked.

It is further ordered that the charge certificate be cancelled.

 

Important note to respondent:

This order does NOT cancel the original Penalty Charge Notice. The Local Authority may well take further action on it. The Local Authority should inform you as soon as possible if it intends to do so.

 

RESULT - This is exactly what I had been asking for in the first place - I had queried being liable for additional charges when I had believed the initial fine paid by automated telephone line.

 

EXCEPT - today I received a further Order made on 18 November 2013, this time addressed to me with a covering letter advising that my application for leave to file a statement has been refused.

 

The wording on the Order is:

 

1. Under Rule 23.8 of the Civil Procedure Rules the Court will deal with the application for leave to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement out of time without an appropriate hearing because the Court does not consider a hearing at Northampton Court would be appropriate.

 

2. The applicaion for leave to file a Statutory Declaration/Witness Statement to be REFUSED

 

Incidentally, the Local Authority objected to my Statement as they claimed to have sent letters that I never received - ironic, considering they claim not to have received any of the three letters I sent to them!

 

So, my question now is - does the fact that my statement has been refused affect the Order revoking the unpaid penalty charge and the charge certificate? Or is this just referring to listing a hearing at Northampton County Court?

 

Any help/advice would be much appreciated, as always.

 

Many thanks.

 

LynetteC

Edited November 21, 2013 by LynetteC

[dx100uk]

better to keep the threads together

 

 

dx

[Jamberson]

First thing to do is phone the council and ask what the state of play is. If they've sent two conflicting notices, one of them is wrong.

[LynetteC]

Thanks Jamberson, but it's Northampton Court that have sent these Orders and the covering letter states that they will not be able to advise on why the statement has been refused as the reason is not written into the Court record.

 

I wonder if they accept the statement, would they then have to list a hearing at the Court which the Order states is not considered appropriate?

Edited November 21, 2013 by LynetteC

[Jamberson]

Still phone the council. It is their case, and they will be able to tell you what the state of play is. You need to find out.

 

Have you found out whether the case is still live? You really should as soon as poss. Ring the council.

[LynetteC]

I've been trying to ring the Council from work but

 

 

haven't been able to hold long enough to get through to their Call Centre.

 

 

I'm off work tomorrow, so planned to call in the morning.

 

 

I have attempted to pay the ticket using their online payment facility (it wasn't listed as an option on the back of the original ticket,

which is why I used the telephone line originally) but the ticket number isn't recognised.

 

I've received a letter today from Jacobs Bailiffs advising that they have been instructed by their client to continue action on my my account

and demanding £167.44 in full within 7 days

 

 

- the date of the letter is 26 November,

today is 28 November

theoretically I now have until Tuesday to find this sum.

 

 

However, I have an Order in my posession that states the order for recovery of the unpaid penalty is revoked

and the charge certificate is cancelled.

 

 

Surely that means that all that was outstanding on my account was the original £35?

 

The Order also states

- and I quote -

 

 

"This order does NOT cancel the original Penalty Charge Notice.

The Local Authority may well take further action on it.

The Local Authority should inform you as soon as possible if it intends to do so. (Emphasis is mine).

 

I have received no communication from Hull City Council. This Bailiff's letter is the first instruction I have received.

 

I will be calling the Council in the morning as I'm not at work and cann hold on for as long as it takes to get through.

In the meantime, can anyone advise on the Bailiff's letter, pleasse?

 

Many thanks,

 

LynetteC

[Jamberson]

Either the bailiff is acting on a valid warrant, or they aren't. Until you find out from the council whether the bailiff is supposed to still be chasing it, it's impossible to say. There could even be two PCNs in the frame - we don't know at present.

 

When you speak to the council, try and find out as much as you can -

 

- Check the PCN number the bailiff is chasing

- Check that the council received a statutory declaration from you in relation to that specific PCN

- Ask what their decision was, and why you were sent two different letters.

 

You could also ask them if they will suspend the case for a couple more weeks due to the confusion - that will at least buy you some time to sort things out. They may or may not agree.

[LynetteC]

If there is a second PNC, it's not one that was ever stuck to my windscreen! I very seldom park in the city centre, hence my not realising the bay I was in was a Disabled one. I use the Park and Ride at the weekend or I'll park in one of the shopping centres. The Client Ref on the bailiff's letter matches the number of the parking ticket, so I'm assuming this is all linked to the same sorry episode.

 

I'm on hold with Hull City Council now - 8 minutes and counting.....

 

SO...

 

Hull City Coucil state that because my Witness Statement was refused, they then re-initiated recovery of the charges

 

Northampton County Court have explained why I have opposing Orders - apparenty, their system initially showed that Hull City Council had until 25 October to respond to my Witness Statement. Their response wasn't received so my application was treated as not opposed and the first Order was sent out. Hull City Council then provided evidence that they had authority to respond by 28 October, which they did and my application was then refused.

 

So now I'm facing an additional £45 - £80 to get a review of my case. I don't even dispute the ticket - I WANT to pay the £35 - I thought I HAD paid the £35. Hull City Council objected to my application on the grounds that they've sent me correspondence that I've not responded to (because I didn't receive it) but they state that they've not received THREE letters that I have sent them. Ironic.

 

Is it even worth the risk of paying out the extra if my case again gets rejected and I end up with the extra costs for the appplication as well as the bailiff's charges?

 

I'm at my wits end with this.

[Jamberson]

OK, so Northampton made a mistake and are saying you should disregard the first letter.

 

Personally I can't see a way out for you. I don't think it's worth you paying for a review (the N244 process) since by your own account, you received correspondence. You mentioned earlier, that you once received a letter asking for £105, but this letter will have told you what your options were at that stage - you needed to either pay up, or file a Witness Statement. As you did not do either (you said you responded with a letter to the council), it's hard to see how you could win the case. We know the council were writing to the correct address, since you were getting the letters, and your Witness Statement, when eventually filed, was out of time.

 

The council is within its legal rights to pursue the case with bailiffs. Sorry - I really can't see what you can do now, other than pay it.