unsecured uk debts now living in nz

[newlifenz]

Hi, I wonder if anyone could offer me some clarity on our situation, I have read through various posts but am now totally confused and not sure what to do. We moved to NZ 6 months ago, we left the UK with £50k of unsecured debts split between 8 different dcas. We have been running a dmp via step change for the last 3 yrs and paid on time every month, in the uk we did have property which we were fortunate enough to sell with equity before leaving. We used the equity to move to NZ and also paid back money friends and parents had lent us in the past. Now we are struggling to keep up payments in the UK and step change is advising we go bankrupt - which we dont want to do because the receiver will want a breakdown of how we spent the equity from our house sale. We are concerned if we tried to declare bankruptcy the receiver will find us fraudulant due to spending the proceeds of the sale.

 

We followed the advice on here and advised all DCAs of a po box address in NZ in writing and in fact have received the usual default notices here in the po box. All the while we continued to honour the dmp agreement. However we are now considering stopping payments - due to not having any remaining assets or disposable income. We know we do not have any CCJs and assume from advice here they cannot issue CCJs now we are non resident in the UK. Can the UK DCAS sell these debts to NZ dcas and if so can the NZ dca enforce them? Also can the UK dcas enforce bankruptcy as we have only been out of the UK for 6 months?

 

Any advice would be appreciated, this is starting to really concern us as we have a young family. Thanks

[fkofilee]

Its extremely difficult for a DCA to enforce a debt over in NZ, it has been tried before and failed...

These debts will go away after 6 years... My honest opinion is stop the payments, if you are living in NZ there is almost nothing they can do to you.

A judge can only enforce a CCJ in an English court in English territory.

[unclebulgaria67]

Just stop payments. You don't have to go down the bankruptcy route. If you want to look at bankruptcy, Stepchange have a team that deals with bankruptcy from abroad, who can advise you on how this would affect you.

 

It is possible for CCJ's to be obtained in the UK in your absence, but because they know you are abroad, they would have to follow a particular procedure. This would include the court having to send the court claim to your address in NZ. But what would they then do in trying to enforce in NZ. It is possible in theory, as there is a commonwealth law dating back to 1933 which enables a reciprocal arrangement between courts UK/NZ. But they won't do this, as they would risk spending money, that they would not get back. So instead if they wanted to hassle you, they would get a DCA to write to you in NZ, with no real intention to use the courts.

 

If I were in your situation, I would end the DMP and write to each DCA/creditor advising them of the situation. If you cannot afford the repayments, it is then up to the DCA to decide what to do. I suspect that they will add your debt to a list and they will sell it on, without telling the new DCA what the score is with the debt. But get some advice about bankruptcy first and see how it could affect you in NZ.

[newlifenz]

Thanks for the advice. We have taken advice on bankruptcy and it would be the best option if we hadnt have had equity that we effectively spent. It appears from the advice we received there is absolutely no effect of going bankrupt in UK on NZ. Worst case is they send a letter to the NZ bank account and your landlord to advise you are bankrupt in UK. But this has no impact here assuming you are maintaining everything correctly which we are.

 

Sounds like best move would be stop paying dmp, write to each of them saying cant afford payments and then let it play out. Can anyone advise on the best form of wording of this -ie do we just make it quite generic saying we cannot afford to repay anything and would you advise sending a budget sheet (like used for step change indicating there are no assets or disposable income)?

 

I think we were just worried we could end up with NZ dcas chasing us around but it sounds like even if they did we could just ignore them?

Edited September 25, 2013 by newlifenz

[unclebulgaria67]

Keep the letter simple and direct. i.e ( There is no point telling them not to write to you asking for payment, as they ignore that and write anyway. You have told them the position, so just read anything they send to you and don't respond if you don't need to)

 

Dear Sir

 

acccount no.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

We are currently making payments through a debt management plan in respect of the above account.

 

Unfortunately, our finances have taken a turn for the worse and we are unable to maintain payment. Therefore with immediate effect, payments will be stopped

 

Just to make you aware of our financial position, I have included a separate sheet showing our current income and expediture. As you will see there is very little in the way of spare income that would enable meaningful payments to be made.

 

I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that we do not possess any assets in the UK or New Zealand. We currently rent out property in New Zealand.

 

It is hoped that at some stage in the future our financial position will improve and we will be able to meet any commitments that we have. If we are fortunate to get to such a position, we will be in contact with you.

Edited September 26, 2013 by unclebulgaria67

[steveab1]

Thanks for the advice. We have taken advice on bankruptcy and it would be the best option if we hadnt have had equity that we effectively spent. It appears from the advice we received there is absolutely no effect of going bankrupt in UK on NZ. Worst case is they send a letter to the NZ bank account and your landlord to advise you are bankrupt in UK. But this has no impact here assuming you are maintaining everything correctly which we are.

 

Sounds like best move would be stop paying dmp, write to each of them saying cant afford payments and then let it play out. Can anyone advise on the best form of wording of this -ie do we just make it quite generic saying we cannot afford to repay anything and would you advise sending a budget sheet (like used for step change indicating there are no assets or disposable income)?

 

I think we were just worried we could end up with NZ dcas chasing us around but it sounds like even if they did we could just ignore them?

 

Hello, I am in exactly the same situation as you. I just stopped communicating with all credit card companies, debt collection outfits etc. They will huff and puff and threaten to send people on a door step visit etc. Pure bull**** though, they won't do anything at all except threaten. Eventually they stop even the threats. COMPLETE SILENCE AND NO CONTACT WITH ANY OF THEM is what I recommend to you. They will try and intimidate you into replying DON'T REPLY.

 

Good luck and don't worry.

[newlifenz]

Thanks to all for the brilliant advice.

[ozzyboy]

It is possible for CCJ's to be obtained in the UK in your absence, but because they know you are abroad, they would have to follow a particular procedure. This would include the court having to send the court claim to your address in NZ.

 

Hi Uncle Bulgaria,

 

Totally agree with your comments but can I just ask you clarify the "particular procedure" that may be used to obtain a CCJ against a non-UK resident?.

 

Unless the law has changed, is it not the case that a County Court Judgment can only be obtained against a UK resident and cannot legally be obtained against a debtor that is living outside the UK?

 

By "living" I mean someone who can prove permanent residence overseas and is thus unable to attend a the UK County Court "nearest to their address" in order to defend themselves.

 

What would be the point in sending the documents to an overseas address if the OP could simply send them back stating that he was living in NZ and therefore beyond the court's jurisdiction?

 

I agree with your point about the reciprocal agreement but this would only be applicable if a CCJ had first been lawfully obtained in the UK.

 

In theory the creditors could try to sue in an NZ court but since I assume these debts are governed by the UK Consumer Credit legislation, the hearing could only take place in an NZ court if the case was heard under UK law.

[unclebulgaria67]

I will have a look again at this, but I read of rules that allow for a claim to be sent to a foreign address, where the defendent is not a UK resident. There seemed to be a procedure that would allow for a judgement against a non UK resident. Perhaps this can only be used in certain circumstances, where the person still has some ongoing interest in the UK and not in a situation where they have left the country lock, stock and barrel.

[ozzyboy]

This may well be the case for some claims that are not the usual unsecured (i.e.credit card and personal loan) debts discussed on this forum.

 

However, for all debts covered by the 1974 CCA, jurisdiction is strictly limited to the County Courts in England and Wales and by the Sheriff court in Scotland and neither of these bodies can pass judgement on anyone living outside the UK.

 

I have to admit that I am not 100% up to speed on the current situation for cross-border enforcement of consumer debt within the EU but in the case of the OP who is in NZ, there's certainly nothing to worry about.,