Need advice on holiday being rufused, dodgy meeting without notice.

[notrust]

Hi,

 

After all my issues years ago, I decided self employment was for me.

 

However, My partner is still employed. I have booked us a hol in December after she was refused a holiday in October. Now, the December holiday is being refused?? She currently has 3 weeks entitlement left, but can't seem to book any of it!

 

The employer has dragged her into a meeting without warning and given her a copy of her contract that states holidays must be taken to suit the employer. But holidays cannot be carried over. Her employer has said, "you should of took them by now".... And "Why do you want them this time of year".

 

I am a little annoyed the 3 month notice of a Hol is still not good enough, and the excuse is, as above, and "It's not fair on others".

 

In this meeting she was forced to sign that she understood the hol in Dec. had been declined, and unbelievably the manager then said, "I assume you will be resigning"!

 

There are no minutes of this meeting, just bullet points of the what the manager said.

 

Any advise would be great as I feel like the employer is using bullying tactics, and my partner will not be allowed her rightful holidays.

 

Thanks,

[renegadeimp]

Word of advice next time you or she goes to a meeting. Record the meeting covertly. You are fully allowed to do so, as well as take a witness into the meeting. I say this because it is obvious this manager is breaching the law, but you need proof of it.

 

Have you tried going over the managers head and go directly to senior management/Head office and inform them of this managers actions?

[notrust]

The manager used an employee that has only worked there for 2 weeks to take the notes. I assume this was tactical as it is unlikely she will say anything against the manager in question.

The company is quite small and apparently the excuses used are from the owners mouth!

I have asked my partner to ask for another meeting but with the owner and myself present.

We have no issues with taking hols to suit the business but there appears to be no suiting the business!

[renegadeimp]

Dear oh dear. The manager is breaching the law. You really must escalate this above his head.

[Emmzzi]

actually whether he is breaching the law depends on when the holiday year runs and if he is saying the leave is lost. Is he?

 

Did she get agreed time off before you booked the holiday?

 

The resigning comment probably just refers to what many people do - quit if they don't get the leave the want.

 

I'd just ask the boss when the leave can be taken and go from there.

[notrust]

In what way is the law being breached? The manager not allowing holidays?

[Emmzzi]

In what way is the law being breached? The manager not allowing holidays?

 

only if she cannot take her holidays before the end of the leave year. I strongly suggest she ask when she can take her holidays now, while there is still time, and let the manager dictate when - then there can be no debate.

 

Other than that, I can see no breach.

[Emmzzi]

p.s. if I were the owner there is no way I'd be meeting with employee's partners - none of their business!!

[notrust]

The holiday period runs Jan to Dec. She must take these hols as her contract states that holidays cannot be carried over.

She had a weeks hol declined in Oct (yet 3 other staff members were allowed them) so I booked December assuming 3 months notice is enough.

[notrust]

p.s. if I were the owner there is no way I'd be meeting with employee's partners - none of their business!!

 

I don't believe that the new employee used to take notes had any business in the discussion either. I just want clarification of her contract as there is no pleasing the employer! The contract states.

 

Holidays must be taken at times convenient to the employer and sufficient notice given to enable holiday to be accepted. Holiday forms must be used.

 

This to me is too open for the employer to abuse. If it stated peak times, school hols, certain months then fine.

[Emmzzi]

Get her to just ask when she can take them. Honestly. Easiest way!

 

Booking a holiday before the leave has been agreed is a tad optimistic.

 

The other employee was just there to witness; it wasn't a disciplinary. Perfectly fine for them to be there.

 

You may call it "open to abuse" but that depends what you think your rights are. Plenty factory workers etc get their holidays when they are told (when the plant is shut) - all legal!

[Sidewinder]

Agree with the comments above - ask precisely WHICH dates are available to be taken and then book them.

 

Legally - the employer has the absolute right to determine when holiday can be taken, and can agree or decline requests as he sees fit PROVIDING that the employee may take their lawful entitlement at some point during the holiday year.

 

Assuming that 3 months notice is going to be OK is, as Emmzzi says, rather optimistic and is setting yourself up for disappointment.

[stu007]

Something else to ask HR for is a full copy of the companies 'Holiday Policy'.

[Conniff]

I also agree with the above posts. First off 'ask' when is a suitable time to take them.

You have no entitlement to accompany him into any meeting, his choices are workmate or union rep.

 

He can't lose his holiday entitlement and keep in mind also that being sick does no cancel out holiday, ie if he went sick now which lasted until the end of the holiday

year, then his holiday 'would' carry over into the next holiday year.

[notrust]

The contract clearly states that the holidays cannot be carried over. Use them or lose them essentially.

 

Thanks for the advice on the matter. I will get her to ask when she csn use up the 3 weeks she has left.

 

Just seems a little bit rubbish when we have cancelled one holiday to suit the employer and now another.

 

Surely the employer can't just keep denying her and not others??

[Emmzzi]

I'm not sure you understand the basics of employment contracts.... Its not about suiting the employee's wishes - if it was then they wouldn't need to pay you to get you to work...

[notrust]

If I knew it all, I wouldn't be asking on here.

[notrust]

Well a quick update....

 

They have now terminated her contract. Obviously they wanted her gone and poor treatment didn't make her hsnd her notice in.

[Conniff]

So Tribunal next stop then.

[notrust]

So Tribunal next stop then.

 

Is it a job worth fighting for? The reason for termination is "they don't feel it's working as well as expected".

 

The whole thing is a sham. I feel very sorry for my partner.

[Conniff]

Of course it is, but if you really don't feel you can hack it, make sure he is paid all his time put in plus notice plus holidays owed.

[notrust]

I am not sure if there is a case. It's amazing how she has been there just under a year?

Cheeky gits even gave the letter to a non manager to give to her! She has had no discipline meetings, no signs of any issues except the denial of hols etc.

[Sidewinder]

Sorry to hear this. Make sure that all outstanding holiday is paid, plus notice pay.

[Emmzzi]

your partner appears to be posting on another forum and getting identical advice. Can we consider this closed now, OP?

[notrust]

Sorry we are boring you Emmzzi.

 

Obviously her job is important to us. So as much advice as we can get is needed. We might be fighting a loosing battle, but we still have kids to feed, mortgage to pay etc.

 

If she had done anything wrong then fine. That's her fault. But she has done nothing other than complain that she felt unfairly treated with holiday refusals.

 

I appreciate you probably know employment law inside out. We don't.

 

What would you do if your job was gone. Lay down and roll over? Doubt it.