Reclaiming Igroup/GeMoney charges on mortgage - repo papers received

[BarryWat]

Hi,

 

Hope I'm posting this in the correct area.

 

I have the misfortune to have a mortgage with what is now called GeMoney formerly Igroup,

taken out in 2000 (15 year term) when I was self employed and arranged through a so called independent broker Capital Credit,

who actually appear to have direct connections with Igroup/GeMoney.

 

Over the period of the mortgage I have experienced many difficulties in maintaining the repayments,

although fortunately for the last 5/6 years have been keeping up with the payments including extra towards the arrears ( which will pay these off within the remaining term).

However they are now pursuing me for around £14+ k charges.

 

I've read through some of the threads on here regarding the charges being unfair

and would be grateful for any advice on how to go about reclaiming these and if at this late stage I can still do this.

 

I have already made a SAR request and received a huge wadge of paper from them which I am about to go through to try to identify all the charges.

 

Look forward to hearing from anyone who may be able to advise or who has had success claiming against Igroup/GeMoney

 

Regards Barry

[dx100uk]

GE will wriggle

 

however stick to your guns

 

have you done the spreadsheet yet?

 

and YEs you can reclaim them.

 

dx

[BarryWat]

Hi dx,

 

Many thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

 

I'm just starting with the spreadsheet today.

 

Is there a list on here that says which charges you can claim and which you cannot?

 

From what I've read it appears that Admin charges,

returned DD or

cheque fees,

counselling visits are amongst the things that can be claimed.

 

Also I read somewhere that you calculate the average interest rate over the period of the loan and put that into the spreadsheet,

do you know if this is correct?

My original loan was at base rate plus 4.75%.

 

I have managed to fight off a couple of repossession attempts over the mortgage period incurring solicitors charges,

I assume that these are not reclaimable.

 

Regards

 

BW

[dx100uk]

unless these solicitors fees cannot be 'linked' to any recent court case for their date

you cant reclaim them.

 

admin charges yes

returned dd yes

counselling visits yes

 

over/under/letter/its raining fees yes

 

and yes you can use an avg of their APR.

 

use the CISHEET.

 

put their AVG mortgage rate in cell D 15

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

 

dx

[BarryWat]

Hi dx,

 

Many thanks again.

 

Going through the full account statement I have the following charges levied apart from the standard ones of payment received and standard interest charges each month.

 

Additional interest (This started in month 3 of the term when the account was up to date

and has continued to be charged every month since with varying amounts and is currently around £70 month)

 

1. Charge returned DD
   
2. Monthly arrears charge (£30 from 04/01/2001 to 04/04/2002)
   
3. Default notice fee
   
4. Debt counselling White Horse
   
5. Lit Referral fee
   
6. Sols cost WRA 191870 (can link this to first possession attempt)
   
7. Admin fee (£40 from 06/02/2003 to 10/2/2010 and then no more to date)
   
8. Solicitor interim legal fees (several of these, probably around the time of second possession attempt, need to check)
   
9. Valuation fee
   
10. Debt counselling Inv (This was charged on 2 occasions even though I'd already supplied the information and requested no visit)
    

The arrears and admin charges total £3840 and I dread to think what the additional interest charges add up to.

 

Any advice on these would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Regards

 

BW

[dx100uk]

at a guess i'd say

1,2,3,4,5,7,10

 

dx

[BarryWat]

Hi dx,

 

Thanks for that.

 

I've been filling in the spreadsheet and just need to clear something in my head.

 

If I was successful in reclaiming the charges (around £4,100) would the additional interest charges (around £9,300) then be removed from the account as there would be nothing for the interest to charged against?

 

Regards

 

BW

[dx100uk]

not sure on this additional int - what do you mean?

 

run what it is passed me- i'll try or ping someone

 

dx

[BarryWat]

Hi dx,

 

Sorry if I've not been clear.

 

On my account statements there is a breakdown of charges as follows:-

 

Interest bearing charges incurred (we will add interest to these if not paid) Currently around £4,100

Additional Interest incurred Currently around £9,500

Payments received towards these charges and additional interest approx £110

Outstanding charges balance-Interest bearing Currently around £13,400

 

There is also a second section listing non interest bearing charges which tally with the total of solicitors,valuation and counselling fees.

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards

 

BW

[BarryWat]

Getting back to sorting this out now as have now paid off the mortgage and GE are still claiming I owe them almost £17k. I have a draft letter based on the template letter and would appreciate any guidance on this.

 

Barry

 

Sorry, couldn't see any way to attach a file. Realise you need to be advanced mode. Draft letter attached.

[dx100uk]

looks ok

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?296108-Hot-news-for-anyone-who-has-suffered-mortgage-arrears-charges-irresponsible-lending-or-other-unfair-lender-conduct

[BarryWat]

To keep this up to date,

 

received a letter dated 13th July from GE Money informing me that my capital repayment mortgage expired on 26/6/15 when full payment of the balance became due.

 

It goes on to tell me that their record show there is no endowment policy or other source of funds assigned to the mortgage to pay the outstanding balance,. No surprise there as it was a repayment mortgage.

 

Then states that they are reviewing my account for legal action and that it is vital that I contact them within 7 days to discuss and that I can contact a named individual who has been appointed my account manager.

 

I was about to respond to him suggesting he checked my file for recent correspondance when I recieved another letter regarding my complaint and they are now starting an investigation and hope to have this finished within their standard 8 weeks timescale by 6th Sept 2015.

 

Do I wait or do I proceed with raising the court papers on 1st of August as I said I would without a favourable response from them.

 

Regards

BW

[BarryWat]

Another update to this saga.

 

 

Since receiving the 'standard' letter from them regarding my complaint

 

 

I have also received an identical one informing me that my mortgage expired on 26/6 etc., only difference was date.

 

 

I responded directly to the account manager named in the letter by recorded delivery advising him of my earlier correspondence,

as yet I have no response from MY account manager.

 

 

Due to work commitments I have not yet done the court papers.

 

 

However today I received another letter. this time from the litigation department claiming I am in breach of my agreement

and if I do not remedy this breach they will have no alternative to commence legal proceedings for possession.

 

 

Also threatens legal costs of at least £525 plus VAT plus further unspecified costs may also be incurred

 

 

. It goes on to say that they hope this course of action will not prove necessary and urge me to contact them without delay.

 

They just ignore everything they receive and rely on threats and intimidation to try and scare people into paying their obscene charges and interest.

 

Need to get my head round issuing court papers asap.

 

If anyone has any advice please feel free to reply.

BW

[BarryWat]

Finally got some time to sort out the court claim, can any one help with the wording of the POC? I was looking at the one used by jmd1307 posted on 10th June as a basis but not sure as mine is a mortgage. Also trying to work out which spreadsheet to use the calculate claim amount.

 

Regards

BW

[BarryWat]

Got the expected response to my claim for refund of charges.

 

Dear Mr XXXXXX

 

My understanding of your complaint is:

 

1. You believe the outstanding balance of your account is made up of fees and charges that are unlawful.

2. You believe that the charges exceed the true cost to GE Money

 

"1. I have reviewed the fees and additional interest applied to your account since August 2009. I should explain that all fees and charges on your account that were applied more than six years ago are subject to a time bar under the Limitations Act 1980. The act states that : An action founded on a simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action occured.

Having reviewed your account since August 2009, I have found that the fees and additional interest have been applied correctly to your account and according to your signed Credit Agreement and Mortgage Deed. Copies enclosed. Our fees and charges have prviously been submitted to the Financial Conduct Authority.

 

So, I am unable to uphold this part of your complaint.

 

2. Our fees and charges are a fair and true reflection of the works carried out. When it becomes necessary to instruct a third party, for example when legal action is taken, to carry out work in connection with your account, their fees are invoiced to GE Money. These fees are paid by GE Money and then applied to your account.

Should you wish to reeview any third party invoices for works carried out for your account, you can request a Subject Access Request. A Subject Access Request should be requested in writing and sent to GE Money together with the fee of £10.00. Based on the above I am unable to uphold this part of your complaint.

 

Therefore I am unable to uphold your complaint."

 

Letter goes on to say that it is important to contact them as soon as possible and also that I should seek independant financial advice. Advises me that this is their final response and complaint now closed.

 

Final paragraph says "The fees and charges were applied to your account before 1st April 2014." What is the significance of this date?

Goes on to say I can refer my complaint to CAB within 6 months (expires 28th Feb 2016.

"Please note that your complaint falls outside the jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service because your mortgage was not regulated under the consumer credit act I enclose a copy of your credit agreement to evidence this."

 

Guess my only option now is to lay out the court fee and hope they settle that way.

 

If any one can give me any advice on how to word the claim it will be greatly appreciated.

 

Regards BW

[dx100uk]

which is ofcourse bowlarks

 

 

the statute of limitations on a mortgage/secured loan is 12yrs

 

 

and

 

 

the statute doesn't apply anyway

 

 

as it runs from when you discovered the 'mistake' or 'error'

and you were not aware you could reclaim until recently due to press coverage etc etc.

 

 

dx

[martin2006]

Hi BarryWat

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?452397-GE-money-fees&highlight=mortgage+fees

 

watching with interest as i am beginning the same

[BarryWat]

Latest update: Default notice issued dated 26/09/2015 for outstanding balance to be paid in full by 18/10.2015.

 

Goes on to say

 

 

"Unless you bring your account up to date immediately we may consider taking further action,

which could result in issuing you with legal notices for the full balance outstanding on your account

. After we have issued you with legal notices your home may be at risk of repossession and any associated costs will be charged to your account."

 

Following my conversation with my account manager a few weeks ago ago,

I assume this is what he described as stage 2 of their 3 stage procedure to recover their unfair charges and associated interest.

 

Next few days will be spent preparing court papers to make sure I get my claim in first.

 

BW

[martin2006]

just a thought barrywat, if they issue proceedings it saves u the court fee, you then defend with your own counterclaim.

[BarryWat]

Have considered that option, might depend how long it takes them. I want to put the house on the market and would rather not have to try to get the charges refunded after they have helped themselves from the sale proceeds.

BW

[martin2006]

when you repaid the mortgage did they relinquish the charge against the property? If they did they cant touch you if u sell

[BarryWat]

As far as I'm aware they still hold a charge against it. There was a suspended possession order for past arrears which were paid off before the mortgage ended. Have thought about asking the court to remove this.

BW

[BarryWat]

Latest update. Received a letter today informing me that they have started possession proceedings, having instructed their solicitors to arrange a date for a court hearing. Am actually in the process of selling the house anyway so will just issue a counter claim once the court papers arrive, at least it will save me the cost of taking them to court.

[martin2006]

might b worth checking with the land registry to see if they still hold a charge on the property

[BarryWat]

Unfortunately a charge for the original mortgage taken out in 2000 is still showing on the register.