Jump to content


Claim form received from Drydens - MBNA debt poss faulty DN?


tony3x
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3383 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I have received this back from MBNA. I have looked through the other MBNA agreements and cannot seem to find one like it.

 

can anyone give advice as to enforceability. My first impressions are that it looks ok and I don't want to challenge it if there is nothing wrong.

 

thanks

 

MBNACCA.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 266
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Hi,

 

It's a little small but I can see the KEY terms there so I would say yes it is a good un'

 

fox

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess if its ok I have no further recourse. My only thought is that, after taking a really thorough look, there seem to be some indiscrepancies.

 

1) Section 1 describes the APR as 15.9% variable - is this correct.

2) Section 2 states that the standard rate per annum for purchases, transfers and cheques is 15.9% pa and 22.9% pa on cash. on my statement it shows the standard monthly interest rates on all transactions as 2.0751%.

3b) says 'details of other service charges are set out in section 4'. there is no section 4. However at the end, after DP section, it says 'see the rest of your terms and conditions (inc definitions) which are in the leaflet enclosed.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tony3x,

 

In the reversed out section about 2/3rds the way down it says "Please sign in the box above before completing this application".

 

In the section headed "Your Details" it reads "Please enter these in the spaces below to ensure that we can process your application".

 

Column 3, near the bottom of the page - item 2 reads "If your application for this credit card is approved..."

 

It's not signed by MBNA or one of its representatives and, as you point out, it refers to sections that are not present.

 

In my opinion it's a bona-fide application form they've provided you with, not an enforceable CCA.

 

I'm battling on similar grounds.

:!:Don't believe them! The wool they try to pull over your eyes is 50% cotton. :!:
Link to post
Share on other sites

not been online for a few days.

 

I have not done a credit check but back in July I had a letter saying that "failure to bring the account up to date will lead to termination of the agreement and the registration of the default". Since then I received a 'notice of sums in arrears' and 'potential commencement of legal proceedings', both in August. I have since reached an agreement to pay a reduced amount so have only received statements since.

 

I think it is now time to pursue this further so am going to write back and question all the areas where I think there is a discrepancy. The main ones being the interest rates charged and the missing section with details of other charges.

 

Will report back when I hear.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have sent a letter back as below:

 

On the 25th August 2009 I requested a copy of my original signed credit agreement. You replied by sending me a copy of an application form with part of the credit agreement.

There are a few points for which I would like further information:

1) Section 2 states that the standard interest rate for Card Purchases & Balance Transfers (after any promotional period), and cheque transactions will be 15.9% pa, and for cash transactions 22.9% pa. Can you explain why my statements show interest rates for all transactions of 2.0751% and confirm what the annual rate is?

2) In section 2g you mention paragraph 11a – there is no paragraph 11a.

3) In section 3b you mention section 4 – there is no section 4.

4) In the section headed ‘Data Protection’ it mentions sections 13 & 14 in the terms & conditions provided – where are these terms & conditions?

5) My signature appears to confirm that I want to be bound by the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 however there is no signature on the application form itself.

6) My understanding is that the application needs to be signed by MBNA or one of its representatives – this appears to be missing.

7) There is no mention of the credit limit anywhere on the copy you have supplied – is this correct?

 

 

I await a response.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Had 2 calls from MBNA call centre (guessing its in India) tonight.

 

Bear in mind I am currently in an agreement to make reduced payments.

 

1st caller asks when I will be making my next payment. I tell him I am not sure but probably by the due date. He then asks me to pay now - I reiterate I will pay by the due date, he then asks when - I say by the due date. He then begins to shout at me. I ask him why he is getting so irate - he says its because of my attitude :confused:. He then starts ranting about me refusing to pay - I manage to get a word in and ask when I refused to pay. He mentioned something about putting notes on my file and hung up.

 

About 30 seconds later they ring again. This time its a 'manager' who listened in to the call and he wishes to apologise. I say no problem water off a ducks back and all that - he then asks If I can pay now - I explain as before that I will probably pay by the due date. He says that they will ring me again if I do not pay. I mention that is their prerogative but I may not wish to discuss anything with them until MBNA answer my letter about my CCA request. He the thanks me and hangs up.

 

You've got to love 'em!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I have yet to receive a reply from MBNA to my letter of 23/11 but during one of their calls from another continent they have confirmed that the letter was received on the 28/11. I was told a reply would be with me soon.

 

Today received another 2 calls from them, when I asked where the reply to my letter was, I was told - "it was passed to our customer services on the 1st December and was sent for a reply on the 12th December, you should receive it by the 21st December".

 

So nearly a month from the date of sending I may get a reply. Should I send out another letter now or wait for the reply?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

After sending out a reminder that they have not replied to my letter of 23/11, I received this. What do you think? It looks like a standard reply to me and only addresses some of the questions I asked.

 

mbna

MBNA Europe Bank Ltd

rv— *

PO Box 1004, Chester Business Park, Chester, CH49WW

Ourref:

Your ref:

 

Date 04 January 2010

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your recent reply to our response to your request for information under Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. ("The Act")

Our reading of the terms of the executed credit agreement suggests your objections are not well-founded. Please see the enclosed sheet for more information about our analysis, and why we have concluded there are no grounds to challenge the credit agreement in this case - please refer to sections 4 in particular, which address the concerns that you have raised in your letter.

It follows that any current debt under the agreement is not being reasonably queried or disputed and the Bank is entitled to collect on the account should it fall into arrears.

Yours faithfully

MBNA Bank Europe Limited

 

MBNA Europe Bank Limited is authorised and regulated by the UK Financial Services Authority and subscribes to The Banking Code Registered Office: MBNA Europe Bank Limited, Stansfield House, Chester Business Park, Chester CH4 9QQ. Registered in England Number 2783251

MBNA503CH

 

Information Sheet

1. What is the "executed agreement" you have provided?

This is a copy of the executed agreement that the customer signed. (Depending on how the customer applied - for example if the application was by post - this might be on the same 'page as the application form filled out by the customer).

2. Does a photocopy of the original credit agreement have to be supplied in response to a

request under Section 78 of the Act?

,'

No, a "true copy" has to be provided; but this is not necessarily an exact copy, as certain information may be omitted from the Section 78 copy (for example, the signature of the customer) under the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Cppies of Documents) Regulations 1983).

3. When might you not provide a photocopy of the original credit agreement, and why?

If the signed original could not be copied legibly for the purposes of Section 78 (for example if it was stored on microfiche) or it could not be retrieved in time to provide a copy in 12 working days, a copy would be reconstituted from our records, and provided instead of a photocopy,

As explained above, this would be a "true copy" under Section 78 of the Act.

4. How can I be satisfied that the original credit agreement was properly executed - especially

if you have not supplied a copy showing signatures?

The Bank takes its statutory obligations very seriously and would not conclude credit agreements with customers unless it was satisfied they were properly executed and enforceable. We make sure that our customers' credit agreements are properly executed under the Consumer Credit Act ("the Act") by having strict processes in place to ensure that each of our customer's credit agreements:

• is signed by both the customer and us,

• is sent to the customer in full,

• is legible when the customer signs it; and

• conforms to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (as amended) and

in particular contains the terms which are required by Schedule 1 and prescribed by

Schedule 6 to those Regulations.

 

We comply with Schedule 6 to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations (as amended) by including the prescribed terms as follows:

a. A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined

Our customers' credit agreements tell them the manner in which their credit limits will be determined; i.e. we state that the credit limit will be determined by us from time to time and that we will tell the customer what it is.

b. A term stating the rate of any interest

The rates of interest applicable to each of the possible transaction types are set out in full in the credit agreement. We now show these as per annum rates. However, prior to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 coming into force, we may have shown them as monthly rates, as well as providing an annual percentage rate ("APR") for each, calculated in accordance with the requisite statutory calculation.

c.. A term stating how you must repay your credit

Each of our customers is required in the credit agreement to make a minimum payment each month. Each customer's credit agreement sets out how we calculate this and states that their payment due date is notified to them on their statement each month.

We comply with section 62(2) of the Act by sending each customer a copy of their unexecuted agreement at the same time that we sent their credit agreement for signature. We comply with section 63(4) of the Act by sending each customer with their first credit card a copy of the credit agreement that they signed.

If we are challenged to prove proper execution of a credit agreement, (sometimes long after the agreement was made, or without being shown evidence suggesting errors were made) we may rely on the legal presumption of correctness, formerly expressed in Latin as omnia praesumuntur rite et solemniter esse acta (all things are presumed to be correctly done). This presumption is reinforced where the customer has utilised the account in the past and has made repayments from time to time.

5. What if the terms of the original agreement have been altered since it was made?

This is very likely to have happened, and it is our practice to update an original credit agreement with a customer from time to time in accordance with its terms (legally known as a 'variation'). A copy of the customer's up to date terms and conditions was also enclosed with our response to the Section 78 Request.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Received another letter today saying that they investigating 'my complaint' and will provide a response within 28 days.

 

Not sure that I made a complaint, merely asked for clarification on some points!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Latest updates - not looking good!

 

Sent this on 29/12 -

Dear Sirs,

On the 23rd November 2009 I wrote to you relating to my CCA request.

 

In the several conversations I have had with your foreign call centre I have had confusing replies. I have been told:

 

1) The letter was received on the 28th November and I should receive a reply by the 21st December. Not received.

2) No letter was received from me in November but you replied to me on the 1st December. You replied to something you did not receive.

 

I have enclosed a copy of the original letter so in case you have not received the original.

 

May also point out that your foreign call centre staff are some of the most unprofessional I have come across. They often shout when they don’t get their own way and hang up when you do not give the answer that is on their check list. More importantly they do not ask any security questions to make sure they are talking to the correct person – is this a breach of the Data Protection Act?

 

With this in mind can you please mark my file to indicate that I will only communicate with you in writing as I do not trust your security procedures or the ability of your staff to communicate correctly.

Jan 6th - reply from MBNA stating that they will issue a response within 28 days.

 

Jan 21st - Letter telling me that if I do not continue to make payments it may result in a default.

 

Jan 26th - Letter apologising for delay and they will respond by 24th Feb.

 

Jan 29th - letter informing changes to acc number & terms.

 

8th Feb - letter replying to mine of 29th Dec advising that my letter of 23rd November is being dealt with and I will receive corres under separate cover and the acc has been recalled from Aegis but they cannot retrieve details of calls as I have not provided dates.

 

22nd Feb - letter informing me that failure to bring the acc up to date could mean a default being registered.

 

27th Feb - sent letter to MBNA stating that acc is still in dispute as they have not replied to my letter of 23/11/09 despite promises.

 

8th March - letter stating that my letter passed to relevant dept and I will get a full response within 5 bus days.

 

18th March - letter stating that they are investigating my complaint and will respond within 28 days.

 

26th March - letter informing me that failure to bring the acc up to date could mean a default being registered.

 

26th March - letter apologising for delay in responding and will do so by 26th April.

 

9th April - Default notice issued - will post copy.

 

Advice much required.

Edited by tony3x
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm usre you'll already know the Default Notice is\will be defective as it doesn't give you the prescribed term of 14 clear days to rectify the account.

 

Mbna have got themselves confused regarding the letter. Does the letter contain your details ?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that the dates on the DN were ok as they give more than 14 days (9th to 26th) but it is only 11 business days if this matters.

 

the letter only had name, address and account number.

 

I had a look at the Carey v HSBC judgement and believe that they have not fulfilled obligations under a CCA request for several reasons.

 

1) they have not supplied the full T&C's, original & varied.

2) the CCA supplied refers to other sections etc of the Act that are not attached.

3) the CCA supplied has not been signed by MBNA.

 

Not much I can do about it as not in a position to pay it off so may as well carry on fighting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm intrigued by the fact that in 2006, MBNA's default charges were only £12. This was long before most of the banks altered their Ts & Cs to just that amount because of various legal cases in the pipeline.

 

I'm sure these charges were much higher than that at the time - hence the reason for sites like this springing up.

 

It may just be me, but I'm a bit suspicious of that.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought that the dates on the DN were ok as they give more than 14 days (9th to 26th) but it is only 11 business days if this matters.

 

the letter only had name, address and account number..

 

You really must read the links provided.

 

take a peek at this one - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/200901-anatomy-default-notice.html

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will have a read through the posts to get a better idea. Having a quick look it seems that DN's are mainly faulty through dates or stating arrears then claiming balance. On the face of it mine looks ok.

 

One thing I have noticed is that the DN refers to paragraph 8f of my credit agreement - the copy of the agreement they sent me does not have that paragraph.

 

Would it be worth pointing out that the CA does not contain the paragraph required or just let the account get terminated?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The dates to rectify the breach is out by 1 day if they sent 1st class or 3 days out if by 2nd class. Either way it is defective. Let's hope they terminate the account on the back of a defective DN.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...