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Compensation for seized goods by customs


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Any idea how much could I claim from customs for seizing my goods, they were destroyed by them and I Have won battle in court. Goods were worth over £1400, to replace them in the UK I will Have to spend over £4500. customs Have section 144 of CEMA signed by judge.

Thanks

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nobody? I`m trying find out what can I fight them for, as they destroyed my goods without court order (appeal was pending) and would`t like to push it too far. but I would like to get something on top of £1400 they own me all ready.

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hi honeybee

the goods were cigarettes , I have appealed and the case was heard by Magistrates Court which I lost, but than I appealed to Crown Court and appeal was allowed.

goods were destroyed before appeal was heard, so they can`t be returned to me.

judge said that detention of goods was reasonable, thats why he signed the section 144 of CEMA.

they not liable to my court case cost but they are for damage they made.

I have`t posted question about this before.

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Thank you for that.

 

I'm not expert at customs and excise but you imported £1400 worth of cigarettes? Was that for you personally or as a business?

 

I can see that customs might think you were trying to avoid duty, but I could be wrong. Cigarettes bought in the UK bring in money for the government.

 

Please correct me if I'm on the wrong track.

 

HB

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yes I have imported £1400 worth of EU duty paid cigarettes and they were seized. but decision was overturned by judge on appeal.

those cigarettes were for my own use. I know the cigarettes brought in the UK does make big money for Goverment, but now the same Goverment was spending a lot money fighting in court, it was at tax payers expenses. they lost it and now at the same tax payers expenses they will have to compensate me.

CEMA stands for Customs and Excise Management Act 1979

there is a link to section 144

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/2/section/144

I`m relaying on section 144(3)

Nothing in subsection (2) above shall effect any right of any person to the return of the thing seized or detained or to compensation in respect of any damage to the thing or in respect of the destruction thereof.

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I did send them a letter demanding compensation of £4500 as this is the price of my cigarettes legally imported to the UK, but I don`t think they will agree to that request.

I gave them option to replace destroyed cigarettes with cigarettes of the same quality, but would they do it? I don`t think so.

if they did than better for me as I would`t have to go abroad to bring them back, less hassle for me.

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You can only claim your actual losses as it is within your abilities to go abroad and buy some more. That they would cost a lot more to replace in the UK doesnt matter, that would be a consequential loss which you havent actually suffered. I doubt if a judge would entertain a claim for your travel abroad expenses either as people generally pick up their fags at the end of a trip so you cant claim the trip was wasted entirely.

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thanks ericsbrother

but think is they should keep the goods as condemnation proceeding was pending, is`t that correct?

I would like to find out if they had power to destroy seized goods without court order while appeal was pending?

at the time when goods were seized I had them in the UK, and now because they destroyed them (as far as I know without any power) I will have to pay for day trip to replace them.

do you mean that customs can do what they like?

they stopping people without reasonable ground, they seize goods from innocent people only to meet targets and make more money for Gov (only few people appeal, and only 1 out of 10 appeals is in appealant favour).

they make the rules as they go, rules that suits them.

they twist everything, I wa asked question in court by UKBA barrister why I had the receipts, and she sait I had them to show my `ustomers` how much I paid so I can charge them more. If I had no receipt they will say I had no receipts because someone else paid for my goods. thats only example, they make it as they go.

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thanks ericsbrother

but think is they should keep the goods as condemnation proceeding was pending, is`t that correct?

I would like to find out if they had power to destroy seized goods without court order while appeal was pending?

at the time when goods were seized I had them in the UK, and now because they destroyed them (as far as I know without any power) I will have to pay for day trip to replace them.

do you mean that customs can do what they like?

they stopping people without reasonable ground, they seize goods from innocent people only to meet targets and make more money for Gov (only few people appeal, and only 1 out of 10 appeals is in appealant favour).

they make the rules as they go, rules that suits them.

they twist everything, I wa asked question in court by UKBA barrister why I had the receipts, and she sait I had them to show my `ustomers` how much I paid so I can charge them more. If I had no receipt they will say I had no receipts because someone else paid for my goods. thats only example, they make it as they go.

 

having worked in customs many years ago. There are some things I would point out.

 

If they had already disposed of the goods before you went to court and before you appealed you will only get the purchase price back, although not sure why'd you buy £1.4k worth in one hit, as that sounds more than enough grounds for supplying.

 

Customs have rules and they can give you the monetary value rather than the goods as they don't exist anymore.

 

I can see exactly where that barrister was coming from, I smoke but have a lot of sense not to bring stupid amounts in the country.

 

You're own fault and whatever you get back you're lucky as tbh I think the court was wrong in awarding you the money, as you can't prove they are just personal, just on the amount it can be seen as proof of supplying, and that's not just UK law but a lot of countries.

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Crc thanks gog qualified judge had different view to your. But you will get on well with dentist from Magistrates, give tham a call see what they say, if you let them know that you used to work for customs they will give you some coffe. I'm not asking for judgement, I have one allready from the Crown Court. You see if someone is travelling to the destination once every two years he can bring supplie which will last him 6-8 months and save some money. I would like to find out how many of you have common sense crc?

Court maybe wrong but the law is law, there is no limits and I want my cigarettes.

I think I will have a go and apply to small claims court for £4500 against UKBA.

Crc there is more think, it will be hard for them to take my goods again ;)

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When you say you won in Crown Court, what do you mean? Did you go through with condemnation proceedings, in accordance with the procedure set out in Schedule 3 of CEMA?

 

I had a look at some of the case law on s144 (there only seems to be two leading cases) and it is still not immediately clear to me how s144 (2) and s144 (3) interact.

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Steampowered I have send Notice of Claim to UKBA in 30 days. They started condemnation proceeding, had to go to Magistrates Court. Been there and lost the case, but appealed to Crown Court and appeal was allowed. Good should be returned to me. In Crown Court UKBA secured secton 144 so I can sue them for money I lost during condemnation procedding. But refering to s144(3) nothing stoping me from suing them for money to recover my goods, is't right?

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Crc thanks gog qualified judge had different view to your. But you will get on well with dentist from Magistrates, give tham a call see what they say, if you let them know that you used to work for customs they will give you some coffe. I'm not asking for judgement, I have one allready from the Crown Court. You see if someone is travelling to the destination once every two years he can bring supplie which will last him 6-8 months and save some money. I would like to find out how many of you have common sense crc?

Court maybe wrong but the law is law, there is no limits and I want my cigarettes.

I think I will have a go and apply to small claims court for £4500 against UKBA.

Crc there is more think, it will be hard for them to take my goods again ;)

 

Do you really want abuse thrown at you? as it can be as your attitude is ****.

 

Having worked in both civilian and military customs, know which I prefer.

 

How many cigarettes did you have for the 1.4k?

 

Also was it just for you?

 

We all have common sense and I don't work for customs anymore, it's a very hard job.

 

Crown court judgement on appeal is **** really, you stropped because you didn't get your way. Only makes you higher on radar when going through any port. Clever aren't we. (thought I'd use same attitude to you as you have done to me see how you like it)

 

That just sounds so suspect what you say as you just sound like a supplier.

 

What is the law and QUOTE it? you were from EU weren't you?

 

You won't get small claims, as you have receipt you will get purchase price.

 

If you have above the limit, yes there is a limit from EU, then you will get them seized, I think you were over it and the judge had no clue of the limit that has been in place about 2 years ago. One of which I think you are abusing and which I think the customs officer and magistrate realised.

 

When were they destroyed and when did you start proceedings?

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:wave: L O

 

Any idea how much could I claim from customs for seizing my goods, they were destroyed by them and I Have won battle in court. Goods were worth over £1400, to replace them in the UK I will Have to spend over £4500. customs Have section 144 of CEMA signed by judge.

Thanks

 

boloney

the difference between your actual £1400 cost and projected £4500 cost is due to higher UK tax and VAT.

I assume the Judiciary System would rule that you cannot be reimbursed for monies not spent in the UK.

Especially from (for want of a better phrase) public Coffers.

 

Personally I would take money and the moral victory.

 

Your logic for acquiring £1400 worth of tobacco product is sound, saving of £3100

 

 

dk :wave:

 

bye for now

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Do you really want abuse thrown at you? as it can be as your attitude is ****.

 

Having worked in both civilian and military customs, know which I prefer.

 

How many cigarettes did you have for the 1.4k?

 

Also was it just for you?

 

We all have common sense and I don't work for customs anymore, it's a very hard job.

 

Crown court judgement on appeal is **** really, you stropped because you didn't get your way. Only makes you higher on radar when going through any port. Clever aren't we. (thought I'd use same attitude to you as you have done to me see how you like it)

 

That just sounds so suspect what you say as you just sound like a supplier.

 

What is the law and QUOTE it? you were from EU weren't you?

 

You won't get small claims, as you have receipt you will get purchase price.

 

If you have above the limit, yes there is a limit from EU, then you will get them seized, I think you were over it and the judge had no clue of the limit that has been in place about 2 years ago. One of which I think you are abusing and which I think the customs officer and magistrate realised.

 

When were they destroyed and when did you start proceedings?

 

What limit is that? There is no limit within the EU and the OP has stated it's personal use so that's not for us to question intention as they have already proven that to a judge.

 

There is nothing stopping you baloney from suing them but you will only get back the cost of the goods. It can't hurt to ask for the reasonable cost to put you back in the position you started from to purchase more.

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What limit is that? There is no limit within the EU and the OP has stated it's personal use so that's not for us to question intention as they have already proven that to a judge.

 

There is nothing stopping you baloney from suing them but you will only get back the cost of the goods. It can't hurt to ask for the reasonable cost to put you back in the position you started from to purchase more.

 

limit where supplying is often (and rightly so) suspected. I would say it is very hard to prove personal over 800.

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crc I had 11000 cigarettes with me for me and wife.

I know I`m a marked man on the system, no it is`t clever. I will let them keep stopping me without reason and you know what I will do one day? I will sue them for harassment, my kids asking: daddy why those people stopping you every time we are crossing border, are you a criminal? have you done something wrong? and I have to explain to my kids the situation.

problem with customs is that they have`t got common sense, just like yourself. trust me there is no limit on goods brought from EU, even HMRC have this info on the website http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/arriving/arrivingeu.htm

this what you saying is a limit in fact is Guideline, which you should know if you ever worked as a custom officer.

I`m trying find out when did they destroyed my goods and what power they use to do so without judgement, are they customs and judges themselves?

dragonkeeper yes saving are huge if you compare Eastern Europe prices and UK prices, that`s why I done it.

Crapstone that the point, if they pay me the money I paid and travel expenses to replace the goods than I will be ready to end the story, but knowing them they will come with stupid offer.

I would let you know what was the end of it.

thanks for advice.

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I would say it is very hard to prove personal over 800.
it maybe hard to prove it to customs as they got targets to meet, but it was`t so hard to prove it to the judge. when you innocent that`s what you get, goods/money back.
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The guideline is there to stop abuse of the system and protect UK tax income imo 11k fags is an outright abuse.

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The guideline is there to stop abuse of the system and protect UK tax income imo 11k fags is an outright abuse.

 

well it maybe in your view, but if you look in to the EU Directive you will see that someone have to take few other factors int account. I agree with you in some cases people abuse the system, but because someone is above the guidelines does`t mean he will sell the cigarettes. Customs don`t take other factors into account, they stop people to seize goods, as it was in my case, he was only looking for reasons to seize goods. in his opinion he found them, but not in court opinion and they should return the goods. they destroyed them. the problem if I`m abusing the system or not has been resolved by qualified and (judging by his age) experienced judge, there is no need in telling me that I should`t have so much with me, etc. so can we now go back to original question?

will be nice :)

what power did they use to destroy the goods?

did they had rights (by law) to do so?

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Do some research on the authorities and powers of HMRC.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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crc I had 11000 cigarettes with me for me and wife.

I know I`m a marked man on the system, no it is`t clever. I will let them keep stopping me without reason and you know what I will do one day? I will sue them for harassment, my kids asking: daddy why those people stopping you every time we are crossing border, are you a criminal? have you done something wrong? and I have to explain to my kids the situation.

problem with customs is that they have`t got common sense, just like yourself. trust me there is no limit on goods brought from EU, even HMRC have this info on the website http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/arriving/arrivingeu.htm

this what you saying is a limit in fact is Guideline, which you should know if you ever worked as a custom officer.

I`m trying find out when did they destroyed my goods and what power they use to do so without judgement, are they customs and judges themselves?

dragonkeeper yes saving are huge if you compare Eastern Europe prices and UK prices, that`s why I done it.

Crapstone that the point, if they pay me the money I paid and travel expenses to replace the goods than I will be ready to end the story, but knowing them they will come with stupid offer.

I would let you know what was the end of it.

thanks for advice.

 

I worked in customs years ago before that came in, I did say I was customs a while ago

 

You will only give you price you paid for it, nothing more as they have no legal power to.

 

If they destroyed them after the date on the paperwork you were given, http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/seized-goods.htm#2 read there.

 

Customs law is complex and there are small changes quite often. Keeps you on your toes.

 

11K is an abuse, and you should fully expect to be questioned if you have that much, they screen the bags a lot of times, and you can't charge harassment against them, they're doing their job and are fully within their rights to stop you.

 

I know customs can be annoying but they have rules that they have to follow.

 

cigarettes are day to day for customs, and 11k is very hard to prove for personal and in 99.9% of cases is supplying.

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:wave: L O

 

crc I had 11000 cigarettes with me for me and wife.

I know I`m a marked man on the system, no it is`t clever. I will let them keep stopping me without reason and you know what I will do one day? I will sue them for harassment, my kids asking: daddy why those people stopping you every time we are crossing border, are you a criminal? have you done something wrong? and I have to explain to my kids the situation.

problem with customs is that they have`t got common sense, just like yourself. trust me there is no limit on goods brought from EU, even HMRC have this info on the website http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/arriving/arrivingeu.htm

this what you saying is a limit in fact is Guideline, which you should know if you ever worked as a custom officer.

I`m trying find out when did they destroyed my goods and what power they use to do so without judgement, are they customs and judges themselves?

""dragonkeeper yes saving are huge if you compare Eastern Europe prices and UK prices, that`s why I done it"".

Crapstone that the point, if they pay me the money I paid and travel expenses to replace the goods than I will be ready to end the story, but knowing them they will come with stupid offer.

I would let you know what was the end of it.

thanks for advice.

 

boloney

 

I was talking about Central Europe there are Eastern European Countries within the EU not recognised for Tax payment within the EU. Those countries do have a limit imposed for Alcohol/Tobacco and other items, just like the Canary Isles although the Canary Isles are classed as Spain

As in my prior post you have had a decision in your favour, the amount you obtained and where from might be viewed differently in another Courtroom it is still a grey area (as you found out ONCE to your advantage)

 

dk :wave:

 

 

bye for now

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most of my knowledge is from the school of hard knocks

 

not based on any legal background

 

As quite a lot fellow caggers state seek Legal Advice

 

 

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