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Conservative MP for Kettering Philip Hollobone proposed the National Service Bill and there is an e-petition against the Bill.

 

I have started an e-petition in support of the Bill, because I believe that it could be a saviour for Britain,as it would provide a solution to Youth Unemployment, instill a respect for authority that has been lost, teach youngsters discipline and give them a work ethic by providing a structure to their daily life and it would also give many a direction for a trade after their service.

 

If the National Service was compulsory then it would also discourage those wishing to migrate to Britain as a soft option, thus reducing costs to the Benefits System, the National Health Service and the Education System and also increase the Social Housing stock.

 

Having done their Nation Service the youngsters should return back into civilian life with discipline, respect and a work ethic, so this should also help to prepare them for a working life and also help reduce crime.

 

If you wish to sign the e-petition in support of the National Service Bill please go to this link :: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/54710

 

I would also appreciate it if you could post the link in any other forums or social media sites that you visit.

 

Thank you very much for your help.

 

If you wish to read the National Service Bill in full then it can be found here :: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2013-2014/0032/cbill_2013-20140032_en_2.htm#l1g1


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Two threads merged.

 

I am actually in favour of this bill.


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Whilst in favour of it, there is no way that Britain could afford to bring back national service. Are there any western countries that still have conscription?

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http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mil_con-military-conscription

 

The list above is at 1997, I think. France and Germany appeared to have conscription still. I cant find any data current as of 2013.

 

Ooh, I think Switzerland may still have Mandatory service.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Switzerland


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Germany - taken from Wikipedia

 

 

Germany had conscription (Wehrpflicht) for male citizens between 1956 and 2011. On 22 November 2010, the German Minister of Defence proposed to the government to put conscription into abeyance on 1 July 2011.[1] The constitution, however, retains provisions that would legalize the potential reintroduction of conscription.

 


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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

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It would never work. Too many either wouldn't be bothered to turn up or would claim 'against me umin rights init'.

 

The idea could be good but where are they going to be employed and who is going to pay them. The idea is to reduce the state bill not increase it.

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Sorry, im dead set against Forced enlistment in the military. It should only be done at a time of war. There are plenty of other ways to punish youngsters who get out of line.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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Sorry, im dead set against Forced enlistment in the military. It should only be done at a time of war. There are plenty of other ways to punish youngsters who get out of line.

 

 

I don't think the suggestion is that it is a punishment, Imp.. but more in the way of education/apprenticeship opportunity. At the moment we have youngsters who are neither in education or employment. Without hope if you will.

 

If you think about it, those who apply for JSA, are pretty much forced into applying for work or training schemes. You only have to look at the Ingeus thread to see how that is working out ? The only difference is that they go home at night !!


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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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If they are kept away from the regular military and it is purely a military boot am style course, then yes. But Any other and im still dead set against it.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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What happens to those who are full time education, working, carers, etc? It only says that those with physical and /or mental disabilities are exempt.

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Forced Military service is nothing more than slave labour. When it comes to forcing people to do ANYTHING, unless it is their job or is a punishment, then i will always be against it.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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And who is going to compensate all the c companies who have 18 to 26 year olds in their employment who are just goings be whisked away? Anyway it won't happen for 2 reasons. Firstly the ECHR only allows an exception for military service conscription and not civil service conscription as tis bill proposes,and secondly there is nothing in the bill to force people to do it, ie is the goverment going to send 1000s if not hundreds of 1000s to jail when thy refuse to do it? Nope.

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To get a bill past the house of lords and get royal assent, it will be watered down, but just before it gets passed, there will be a provision in it to amend it at a later date. Normally something under the guise of war. It might sound far fetched, but look what they did with the terrorist laws, and how various councils are using them.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Having been in the services it must be remembered that many youngsters today are reliant on Mummy & Daddy to do everything for them and to drag them away to be subjected to "bullying" will result in mental anguish and a huge welfare bill afterwards. When we had conscription I used to see decent youngsters leaving and returning as men having seen warfare, but with a very hardened attitude towards life and a lot of them turned to alcohol to forget.

Try living in a war zone and then relaxing when you return to civilian life. It took me 6 months to get used to not having a weapon in the same room as myself and not to jump at loud sounds. In today's life many youngsters through no fault of their own would not be able to cope and would prefer to commit suicide. National service training does induce some sort of discipline in you and make you self reliant which is good, but the downsides outweigh the ups.

I wonder if those who advocate the return of national service have actually been conscripted previously or done military service?

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YES many year & initially unit was made up of National Service chaps and most were a bally brilliant bunch/comrade, we in 50s were appprentices, but I joined Boys service from that and met many chaps who were drafted into Nat Service and they returned to their chosen apprenticship on discharge, and employers as now with Reservist approached the matter responsibly.

 

It also cut away apron strings!

 

Those who went thru it know the real meaning of the above.


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Before making comments about military training and being sent to war, it would be a good idea to actually read the Bill, because there you will see comments like this :: National Service Bill Page 2

Regulations shall also provide that the scheme shall include—

(a)a residential element, requiring that participants live away from home; and (b)an element of public service, comprising one or more of the following to be chosen by the individual — (i)charitable work, (ii)social action, (iii)care for the elderly or disabled, (iv)overseas development activity, or (v)work connected with the National Health Service, the emergency services or the Armed Forces.

 

AND

 

Scope of the scheme

Regulations shall provide that the scheme must extend the scope of the National Citizen Service and include the following elements—

(a)educational assistance for those participants who have yet to attain basic educational requirements of reading and writing in English and mathematics;

(b)coaching and instruction to attain basic levels of physical fitness, personal discipline, smart appearance, self respect and respect for others; ©instruction in personal financial budgeting, household bills, nutrition, cooking, time keeping, life skills, tolerance towards others, treating elderly and disabled people with dignity and respect; and (d)instruction in basic aspects of the law in relation to the most common offences involving young people.

 

This is a world away from what people are imagining and so they are making knee jerk reactions to the words "National Service" instead of considering what it involves.

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And what will happen to those who dont want to do the service for various reasons? That seems to have been ignored.

 

And for those who talk about cutting the apron strings etc etc, thats a parental issue. The child shouldnt have to be forced into service simply to make the goverment and its statistics look good.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Before making comments about military training and being sent to war, it would be a good idea to actually read the Bill, because there you will see comments like this :: National Service Bill Page 2

Regulations shall also provide that the scheme shall include—

(a)a residential element, requiring that participants live away from home; and (b)an element of public service, comprising one or more of the following to be chosen by the individual — (i)charitable work, (ii)social action, (iii)care for the elderly or disabled, (iv)overseas development activity, or (v)work connected with the National Health Service, the emergency services or the Armed Forces.

 

AND

 

Scope of the scheme

Regulations shall provide that the scheme must extend the scope of the National Citizen Service and include the following elements—

(a)educational assistance for those participants who have yet to attain basic educational requirements of reading and writing in English and mathematics;

(b)coaching and instruction to attain basic levels of physical fitness, personal discipline, smart appearance, self respect and respect for others; ©instruction in personal financial budgeting, household bills, nutrition, cooking, time keeping, life skills, tolerance towards others, treating elderly and disabled people with dignity and respect; and (d)instruction in basic aspects of the law in relation to the most common offences involving young people.

 

This is a world away from what people are imagining and so they are making knee jerk reactions to the words "National Service" instead of considering what it involves.

 

It might have been a good idea to have explained what it was all about in your first post so others knew what you were really talking about.

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And who is going to compensate all the c companies who have 18 to 26 year olds in their employment who are just goings be whisked away? Anyway it won't happen for 2 reasons. Firstly the ECHR only allows an exception for military service conscription and not civil service conscription as tis bill proposes,and secondly there is nothing in the bill to force people to do it, ie is the goverment going to send 1000s if not hundreds of 1000s to jail when thy refuse to do it? Nope.

On the first point - companies already receive extremely generous compensation from the taxpayer, and may not make any form of contribution. When companies start to make a modest contribution towards College/University Training, including a Statutory Obligation to pay a Training Levy if they dont provide either placement or sponsorship for candidates at College or University, then We may take note of any companies who complain.

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Having been in the services it must be remembered that many youngsters today are reliant on Mummy & Daddy to do everything for them and to drag them away to be subjected to "bullying" will result in mental anguish and a huge welfare bill afterwards. When we had conscription I used to see decent youngsters leaving and returning as men having seen warfare, but with a very hardened attitude towards life and a lot of them turned to alcohol to forget.

Try living in a war zone and then relaxing when you return to civilian life. It took me 6 months to get used to not having a weapon in the same room as myself and not to jump at loud sounds. In today's life many youngsters through no fault of their own would not be able to cope and would prefer to commit suicide. National service training does induce some sort of discipline in you and make you self reliant which is good, but the downsides outweigh the ups.

I wonder if those who advocate the return of national service have actually been conscripted previously or done military service?

If many youngsters are indeed reliant on "mummy and daddy to do everything for them", with their grandparents more likely than not required to do National Service after WW2, the experience cannot have been that good in providing those conscripted with a basic level of education where rearing families are concerned. Unfortunately, the children reared by National Service Parents may have acquired bad traits and habits, which were then passed down onto their own children - with some accusing such children as being "reliant on mummy and daddy to do everything for them".

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Before making comments about military training and being sent to war, it would be a good idea to actually read the Bill, because there you will see comments like this :: National Service Bill Page 2

Regulations shall also provide that the scheme shall include—

(a)a residential element, requiring that participants live away from home; and (b)an element of public service, comprising one or more of the following to be chosen by the individual — (i)charitable work, (ii)social action, (iii)care for the elderly or disabled, (iv)overseas development activity, or (v)work connected with the National Health Service, the emergency services or the Armed Forces.

 

AND

 

Scope of the scheme

Regulations shall provide that the scheme must extend the scope of the National Citizen Service and include the following elements—

(a)educational assistance for those participants who have yet to attain basic educational requirements of reading and writing in English and mathematics;

(b)coaching and instruction to attain basic levels of physical fitness, personal discipline, smart appearance, self respect and respect for others; ©instruction in personal financial budgeting, household bills, nutrition, cooking, time keeping, life skills, tolerance towards others, treating elderly and disabled people with dignity and respect; and (d)instruction in basic aspects of the law in relation to the most common offences involving young people.

 

This is a world away from what people are imagining and so they are making knee jerk reactions to the words "National Service" instead of considering what it involves.

 

What a load of tosh! Are these conscripts going to be doing it for free or will it be slave labour? This will be funded from the taxpayer's pocket and it will make a huge dent in the national budget. This type of thinking is akin to Keynesian economics!

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First, to answer Coniff "It might have been a good idea to have explained what it was all about in your first post so others knew what you were really talking about."

As I said if my post had been fully read instead of just reactions to "National Service" there is a link to the Bill at the bottom of my post.

 

RenegadeImp "And what will happen to those who dont want to do the service for various reasons? That seems to have been ignored"

There will no doubt be those who don't want to do service for various reasons, just as there are those who don't want to work either, that is one of the reasons why "National" Service, they are not being ignored they are being expected to do the same as everyone else.

 

Surfer01 "Are these conscripts going to be doing it for free or will it be slave labour? This will be funded from the taxpayer's pocket and it will make a huge dent in the national budget. "

The Bill states they will be paid the National Minimum Wage during service so not slave labour, yes it will be funded by the taxpayer, as is the Benefits System which many of these youngster's are claiming and absolute fortunes have been spent on all sorts of Consultations, Commissions, Committees, Advisory Boards and Think Tanks to come up with solutions to the unemployment problems.

 

As for your remark about this being akin to "Keynesian Economics" the actual basic theory of "one person's spending goes towards another person's earnings, and when that person spends his or her earnings, he or she is, in effect, supporting another person's earnings. This cycle continues on and helps support a normal, functioning economy." is what actually happens.

 

However, flooding the Economy with Government money to kick start a slow depressed economy as the Economist Keynes suggested during the American Depression is not the answer. But investment on improvements for the future instead of money hoarding is the right direction to go, and I believe that this is investing in the future.

Edited by Conniff

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There will no doubt be those who don't want to do service for various reasons, just as there are those who don't want to work either, that is one of the reasons why "National" Service, they are not being ignored they are being expected to do the same as everyone else.

 

So forced labour then? Gotcha. Sorry, i will always be against something that forces a person, especially a child to gie up a good part of their youth, just to satisfy the ego of politicians. It's no different than a dictatorship.

 

You watch if this terrible idea does become reality. 2-3 months after it starts, the government will be claiming success as the youth unemployment rate has dropped to an all time low. Simply because they told kids they have to go to National service under penalty of heavy fines or jail time. It is nothing more than a statistical exercise, invented by a completely inept goverment.

 

national service/forced conscription should NEVER be an option. Ever. Just because the people who had the idea were forced into it when they were young, doesnt give them any right at all to force the kids of today into it.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Surely this pathetic bill removes freedom of choice for which are forefathers fought long and hard to attain. The bill is basically saying that youngsters are incapable of getting a job so we will put them in a job. I wonder if the dim witted short sighted idiots that thought up this bill have ever done National Service or ever been conscripted? I wonder if they have ever done any military service? I am not sure about the references to a "Bill" as there is no bill!

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Agreed surfer. The sad thing is that there are people actually agreeing with this proposal, instead of taking responsibility for their actions and bringing up youngsters properly.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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