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Bus lane PCN - York Council/Lendal Bridge **Appeal Upheld**


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Interesting remarks on Radio York this morning (Jonathan Cowap 09-00/1200 - no link yet as program currently on) Nick Freeman (Mr Loophole) contributing.

If I understood correctly it was stated the fines will not be rescinded AND the prohibition will continue as they take legal advice. Huh, might have been a good idea to do that before they instigated it. So now they're using a JCB rather than a shovel to dig the hole they're disappearing in to.

 

How could they have taken legal advice on a situation that hadn't occured??

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How could they have taken legal advice on a situation that hadn't occured??

 

I would expect Due Diligence from people holding such responsible positions and it to be one of the first considerations in implementing this experiment. After all if it's not legitimate then it can't have a future in it's present form.

It's a sheer extravagant and irresponsible use of Council tax payers funds.

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I would expect Due Diligence from people holding such responsible positions and it to be one of the first considerations in implementing this experiment. After all if it's not legitimate then it can't have a future in it's present form.

It's a sheer extravagant and irresponsible use of Council tax payers funds.

 

It is only the opinion of an adjudicator who is not any more qualified to judge than anyone else it just happens that he is paid to adjudicate, hence the Council seeking further legal advice.

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It is only the opinion of an adjudicator who is not any more qualified to judge than anyone else it just happens that he is paid to adjudicate, hence the Council seeking further legal advice.

That's not what I understand, it would seem he is amongst the most experienced in dealing with such issues & not someone merely picked at random. Perhaps the reason why he deals with such matters & the reason he needed to see the farce for himself as he couldn't understand the amount of appeals?

Even the glorious leader would agree with him "Council leader James Alexander has requested an internal review of both schemes, saying the way they have been carried out is not good enough"

How long did he need to realise that?

&"Mr Knapp’s judgement said it was “unacceptable” that the council began the schemes knowing “sufficient resources to deal with challenges and appeals would not be available”. He said this had turned the appeals process into “a lottery”.

From what I heard his opinion is worth far more than you state

Read the first paragraph of John's second link "Government Expert"

Just to add to Johns contribution http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/11124039.Lendal_Bridge_fine_drivers_may_get_refunds/

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Visited York on 19/03/14 during a week long break in Yorkshire,( last there about 30 years ago), and hey ho got PCN bus lane contravention for Lendal bridge thru post last Monday. Date of offence? 19/03/14. Date of PCN/posting 28/03/14.Date of service 1/04/14. as a visitor I didn,t know where Lendal Bridge was but reading thru this thread I am sure I got here whilst following signage for the A19 when leaving the city. I can't recall seeing any signage to alert me to the bridge in advance. I have worked for 30 years in the transport industry and have never picked up a ticket till now. I will be contesting this one as having shown it to two senior police officers in the Police Scotland Roads Policing Unit and several colegues in the VOSA/DSA organisation all say it is unenforceable for several reasons.

1. The photos must show the alleged crime, mine just show my car on a normal street with no markings to show a bus lane, in particular a bus lane must have a continuous white line of between 250mm to 300mm wide separating it from other lanes.

2. Only one photo shows the date, time and frame no bar. There is a government directive which states that ALL still images taken from the camera must show the date, time and frame no otherwise the camera equipment is deemed to be non compliant.

3. All signage and road markings must both support and compliment each other in such a way that should a driver miss a sign the road markings should inform him of the situation.

I can't recall the signage around the bridge approaches but looking at images on Google and on this thread there are no approved bus lane signs (blue) in sight therefore a bus lane can not be enforced.

I,m going to dig out the official documentation to support these points and will post them here later to help any others trapped by this.

There is a similar situation in Livingston Scotland where the bus station has no continuous white line thru it and they have used signs very similar to York with the result that no one has ever been given a ticket for a bus lane contravention because it doesn't comply with the regulations (the bus station can be used as a short cut) Police occasionally pull offenders over but can only give them a verbal naughty boy/don't do it again talk...

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The latest news,the bridge will be open from Saturday 12th April.

 

 

Regards,John.

 

John, this is frantic spin from a desperate, defeated young man heading the council. The bridge was never lawfully closed, there were no legally enforceable restrictions (Adjudicator's decision 27th March 2014, YR 05035C - cml.sad.ukrd.com/document/254991.pdf). This empty headlines only gives credence to his ridiculous attempts to deny The Law that is binding upon him and the motorist. The law has found against him and in favour of the motorist. He is desperately floundering as he attempts to hold on to 'revenue' of £millions from ill gotten gains of his [problem] and salvage his career.

 

Kevin Dobbin - York

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Visited York on 19/03/14 during a week long break in Yorkshire,( last there about 30 years ago), and hey ho got PCN bus lane contravention for Lendal bridge thru post last Monday. Date of offence? 19/03/14. Date of PCN/posting 28/03/14.Date of service 1/04/14. as a visitor I didn,t know where Lendal Bridge was but reading thru this thread I am sure I got here whilst following signage for the A19 when leaving the city. I can't recall seeing any signage to alert me to the bridge in advance. I have worked for 30 years in the transport industry and have never picked up a ticket till now. I will be contesting this one as having shown it to two senior police officers in the Police Scotland Roads Policing Unit and several colegues in the VOSA/DSA organisation all say it is unenforceable for several reasons.

1. The photos must show the alleged crime, mine just show my car on a normal street with no markings to show a bus lane, in particular a bus lane must have a continuous white line of between 250mm to 300mm wide separating it from other lanes.

wrong they do not even need to send photos the evidence is on cctv and the solid white line is only for a bus lane that has a lane of regular traffic alongside not a route that is buses only

2. Only one photo shows the date, time and frame no bar. There is a government directive which states that ALL still images taken from the camera must show the date, time and frame no otherwise the camera equipment is deemed to be non compliant.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2756/schedule/made is the legal requirements no mention of 'still' photos and I doubt you even have photos I suspect you have an image scanned onto the PCN.

3. All signage and road markings must both support and compliment each other in such a way that should a driver miss a sign the road markings should inform him of the situation.

I can't recall the signage around the bridge approaches but looking at images on Google and on this thread there are no approved bus lane signs (blue) in sight therefore a bus lane can not be enforced.

see above any road that is 'buses only' can be enforced under the transport act 2000 there was a High court case to confirm this

I,m going to dig out the official documentation to support these points and will post them here later to help any others trapped by this.

There is a similar situation in Livingston Scotland where the bus station has no continuous white line thru it and they have used signs very similar to York with the result that no one has ever been given a ticket for a bus lane contravention because it doesn't comply with the regulations (the bus station can be used as a short cut) Police occasionally pull offenders over but can only give them a verbal naughty boy/don't do it again talk...

Livingston is actually in Scotland so its very unlikely that a PCN for a Bus lane using the Transport act would be issued as it applies to England and Wales

 

Just go to show that some self proclaimed 'experts' know f##k all about decrimalised enforcement.

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Kevin.

They should call Alexander,Bucks Fizz.Remember the song,Make Your Mind Up.

I could rant and rave about YCC,but it would only bore members.

But,the stocks up Micklegate or York Tyburn do come to mind.

 

Regards,John.

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Kevin.

I am sorry that I cannot provide photos of Coppergate or Lendal Bridge.At the moment,I only have photos of the weeds in the streets from last year.They are coming up again now,it looks nice for tourists.

 

Regards,John.

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The saga continues.

 

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/11196318.Council_warned_not_to_spend_Lendal_Bridge_fines_cash/

 

80% of 43000 equates to roughly 34000.York council have not mentioned out of the 34000 that are non YO postcode,how many were tourists that will never visit York again.

If it was not for the Tour De France visiting York this year,I think that York would have had a very lean tourist season.

But of course,York council have now found another money spinner.

 

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/11193196.More_anger_over_council_spy_van_fines/

 

Regards,John.

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Yorkcouncil are now sending bully boy letters out for unpaid fines. If you dont pay they'll let the dogs out ie the bailiffs. Anyone got any ideas on what to do? It's not like lendal bridge isn't an illegal bus land or anything like that. There was a council meeting last night whereby council were warned not to spend the fine money in case thy have to give it back £700'oo btw.

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That was a rapid reply Lissa',I have already been looking at tomorrows press.There does not seem to be any further updates.

I like the article regarding creating wildlife meadows from green spaces.Or is this a way of York council saying that they will not be cutting the grass to save money.They should make the city centre a meadow,with the amount of weeds growing,they are half way there already.

 

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/features/features/11197416.Campaign_to_transform_green_spaces_in_York_into_wildlife_meadows/?ref=ec

 

Regards,John.

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Do you know the FB page say no to lendal bridge close

 

Lots of info on there

 

I got an alert when you posted as unfortunately there. Hasn't been much traffic on this site, loads on Facebook site though

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As I do not participate in FB,I do not have the address that you are seeking.

There seems to be a bit of in house fighting going on,the Sheriff Of York has been kicked out.Maybe he might spill a few beans.

 

Regards,John.

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