Bus lane PCN - York Council/Lendal Bridge **Appeal Upheld**

[Lissadenton]

Our appeal to an independent adjudicator has been upheld. The second appeal that is.

the council are not contesting them.

[sailor sam]

Our appeal to an independent adjudicator has been upheld. The second appeal that is.

the council are not contesting them.

 

Exactly what I thought would happen. Well done... now others should follow. Trouble is there will be some people who will simply pay the penalty. Local rag should report the successful appeals. Only problem is that the council will eventually correct the signage.

[Lissadenton]

Well if they do correct the signage, that's even better because it shows it wasn't adequate enough to begin with.

 

They cannot lock the door after the horse has bolted.

 

Keep an eye on the say no to lendal bridge close Facebook page, I'm hoping to have some interesting news in the next few days.

 

Oh yes and please get family, friends, your Grannie , uncle Tom Cobley and all to sign the epetition on the same page .thanks!

[sailor sam]

Well if they do correct the signage, that's even better because it shows it wasn't adequate enough to begin with.

 

They cannot lock the door after the horse has bolted.

 

Keep an eye on the say no to lendal bridge close Facebook page, I'm hoping to have some interesting news in the next few days.

 

Oh yes and please get family, friends, your Grannie , uncle Tom Cobley and all to sign the epetition on the same page .thanks!

 

We have already established that the signage is inadequate and confusing, I think. The recent successful appeals seem to confirm it. And the council CAN "lock the door after the horse has bolted" i'm afraid although any penalties issued while the signage is as it is, can be challenged. However, from my experience on this site, they tend to rely on ignorance and are quite happy in letting a few appeals go against them as most people will simply 'roll over' and pay the penalty.

 

Once more people successfully appeal, then they will make the signage compliant.

[Lissadenton]

I agree with you Sailor Sam and although we have challenged and won I want them to retrospectively pay back everyone.

 

I'm happy to carry on to try to get other peoples money back. Sheffield did it. I don't know how but where' there's a will. ....and so on.

 

We need to get as much publicity as we can out there. Locals need to help too. Be more pro- active.

Maybe they are. I'm not from York, but I love the city and don't want to see it destroyed.

[sailor sam]

I agree with you Sailor Sam and although we have challenged and won I want them to retrospectively pay back everyone.

 

I'm happy to carry on to try to get other peoples money back. Sheffield did it. I don't know how but where' there's a will. ....and so on.

 

We need to get as much publicity as we can out there. Locals need to help too. Be more pro- active.

Maybe they are. I'm not from York, but I love the city and don't want to see it destroyed.

 

While I would agree whole heartedly with that, it is normally the case that once a PCN is paid, it is the end of the matter.

[Lissadenton]

Here's the Sheffield story. Fortunately they had the backing of a new council. Shows it can be done though

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1025638/Council-forced-pay-300-000-motoring-fines-confusing-road-signs.html

[shaunwhi]

Hi all,

I also just received a PCN for this.

Was visiting York for 24hrs last week. Not being familiar with York, it took a moment (and a quick Google) to recall, but as soon as I found this page I remembered exactly where this is. There is also a large yellow sign on the side of the road immediately before (what I now realise is) the bridge, with wording along the lines of "Lendal Bridge closed to all traffic". I took this to be an indication that there was construction work and that we would be taken on an alternative route - it certainly resembled a 'diversion'/warning sign rather than one prohibiting access. Definitely didn't see the smaller sign posted above, but that was almost certainly obscured by a bus again!

If you're not from York, how would you know where Lendal Bridge is? I'll be appealing and would be grateful for any advice on how to word my appeal.

I'm all in favour of keeping traffic out of city centres even though I drive for a living and it can cause problems for me. but I really don't appreciate being misled and then fined as a result. Thanks for starting this thread: I'll sign the petition too.

[Lissadenton]

Go to Facebook say no to lendal bridge close. Loads of info and photos on there to help you. Saying lendal bridge closed to all traffic is just a big fat lie when it so obviously isn't when you see buses taxis and yes cars crossing.

 

Appeal. They will turn you down. Reappeal. They don't contest it. Least they didn't contest ours round about oct 28

 

We won ours.

[theratboy]

Go to Facebook say no to lendal bridge close. Loads of info and photos on there to help you. Saying lendal bridge closed to all traffic is just a big fat lie when it so obviously isn't when you see buses taxis and yes cars crossing.

 

Appeal. They will turn you down. Reappeal. They don't contest it. Least they didn't contest ours round about oct 28

 

We won ours.

 

 

And Post Office vans and the council bin wagons allowed over. Good to see York council leading by example, not.

[shaunwhi]

Thanks Lisa!

[Lissadenton]

Please sign the petition on the facebook page.

Hoping for 200 sigs by tonight

Ps if you've got your money back...please help the 26,000 others who haven't!

[ian1471]

Just received my FPN for driving in bus lane on 27 November. Have signed epetition but long way to go on that yet. I live in Worcester and rarely drive in York. I have to say the road signage for any directions are not clear in the City so I was using my sat nav and it did not indicate I should not travel on this road. I can't tell from photos nor video exactly where my car is at time of taking but have to assume it is on approach or on bridge. I am considering an appeal but before I do can anyone tell me if signage has been altered and if so when. Not much point me appealing if I drove past great big signs.

[Lissadenton]

Can you go to Facebook page and ask on there. If you know which direction you came from I can help you with ones from Bootham.

I'm trying to find out myself when signs were altered. They were the same on oct 27 but you were a month later

[ian1471]

Can you go to Facebook page and ask on there. If you know which direction you came from I can help you with ones from Bootham.

I'm trying to find out myself when signs were altered. They were the same on oct 27 but you were a month later

 

Don't know direction of travel as a stranger to York. Am not on Facebook so trying to use wife's page but can't seem to work it out. Searched Lendal Bridge and found some photos but nowhere to write my question. Help if you would be so kind.

[Lissadenton]

There's only two routes across the bridge . From the north you come from Bootham and Museum st and the south is station rd. can you google it and have a little look.

[ian1471]

I started at Monkbar Hotel then into Gillygate (A1036), continuing onto Museum Street. Now looking at map on Google I recall shortly after passing the Railway Station. So I assume from the North. Thank you.

[Lissadenton]

Right. When you come up at gillygate there's a sign alongside you on the crash barriers . It's a small yellow aa sign. I don't think you would see it as it would be alongside of you.. Opposite you at those traffic lights there's a shop called Evie browns tearooms and on the traffic light is another yellow aa sign saying lendal bridge closed with the hours that it's closed underneath. Naturally you are a tourist and don't know where lendal bridge is.

You want to go into the centre so you turn left past the Theatre Royal in st Leonard's place. The next sign is on the bus stop/ lamp post. If there's a double decker tour bus parked alongside it you won't see this sign either.

If you go along to the Facebook page photos you will see exactly what I mean.

The logical place for another sign is the traffic lights at st Leonard's place. Look at my photo because there isn't a sign and you are too late a yeah because your last chance of exit was gillygate that you've just driven out of.

At those traffic lights there's a no through road to the minster, opposite is a pedestrian street so you can't go there, so you turn right. And it's straight onto the bridge. Kerching!

If by a quirk of fate you spot the sign just a few metres before the bridge you may be lucky to do a three point turn . It's very busy here. You have buses and taxis coming over the bridge and cars.....of course and you have pedestrians crossing from museum gardens. So rather than mow them down people are crossing the bridge.

The legend /writing on the road does not say bus lane . It says restricted access.

 

This should help you so far of the way, but you need to see the photos!

Let me know if you need more help

[Lissadenton]

Sorry for typos on iPad. Let me know if you need more help

[ian1471]

Thanks, I am more and more minded to appeal now. Ckeeky I know but any chance you can share any fromof words that you may have used in your successful appeal; otherwise I am going pretty much with what you have already told me and thanks again. Will probably also print photos; if that's possible from Facebook?

[Lissadenton]

No problem. Here it is. Mind you I waffle on a bit. Other half says I wear them down eventually!

 

 

 

On Sept 8th 2013 we visited York as tourists. *My fiancé is a blue badge holder but as we arrived in York we realised that we did not have it in the car it had been left in her car at home 60 miles away.

 

Normally we park in the pedestrian zone outside McDonald's in Blake St.

 

We realised we were unable to do that so as she uses a wheelchair we needed to be pretty close to the central area.

 

We approached the traffic lights in St Leonard's Place where you can turn straight ahead to Blake St, which with no badge we couldn't do or turn left *to the minster where there is no through road and as we were unsure of the disabled parking there we turned right as that appeared to be our only way forward. There was no sign on these traffic lights to advise us that we should not do this

 

Having no idea where there was any disabled parking at this point we turned right and headed down towards what we now understand is called Lendal Bridge. Seeing no parking in that area and now no where to avoid the bridge we crossed over it, got over the other side and did a loop to the right and back over the bridge. There was plenty of traffic in the area at the time, plenty of private cars crossing the bridge so we were not alerted to any problems and came back over the bridge and finally parked in an area near the BBC studios and paid for a parking space there.

 

At no time were we aware that we had committed any offence.

 

It was a huge shock, however when several days later we received a PCN for going over Lendal bridge.

 

Not being from York and an hour and a half's drive away made it incredibly difficult to retrace our steps to find out where we had gone wrong. We were totally oblivious to the name Lendal Bridge . It meant nothing to us as we were at the point totally unaware where it was.

 

By doing some research on the Internet we found that we were not an isolated case and that thousands of motorists have made the similar mistake as ourselves because like us they had not seen the signs and also like us did not have a clue as to what or where Lendal Bridge was.

 

So we sent off our appeal as we felt York Council had acted rather harshly to what was in effect a mistake. We had neither been driving dangerously or speeding. In fact quite the opposite as with York being so busy that day we had been driving very cautiously on account of their being lots of pedestrians on the pavement and roads.

 

Our appeal was turned down and so on Sunday Oct 27th we retraced our steps by driving the exact same route as we did before, which was down from A19 Thirsk , through Clifton, Bootham and into the centre.. My fiancé also took photographs of the signage...those that could be seen that is . One of the main ones just before you make the fateful error and turn right at the junction we now know as St Leonard's Place had the sign totally concealed by a parked double decker tour bus. At the traffic lights there is no signage at all and once you have made the right turn, you have no escape at all as the only road before the bridge is to the left and is the outlet for a one way street. You either do a very dangerous three point turn in front of oncoming *traffic from the bridge and pedestrians crossing in front of museum gardens who don't really expect cars to be doing three point turns at that point or for the sake of safety for everyone concerned you go over the bridge.

 

We parked the car in Blake St as we had the disabled badge and I pushed my fiancé to the start of the bridge and where we photographed and videoed *several cars who were in the process of making the same mistake as we did. We counted 15 in less than 10 minutes. In fact one poor driver realising her mistake slowed down but then seeing she had no escape at all went over the bridge. It was her only option by then as she did not have the manoeuvrability on account of all the pedestrians to do a three point turn.

 

So, on the basis that visitors to York find the signs misleading because they do not know where Lendal Bridge is and when they arrive at the bridge and see traffic going over it, they then think it has been re-opened and then there is no escape route once you have turned right at the traffic lights at St Leonards Place I would like to re- appeal . I am sure if we were local that mistake would not have happened but I do think there is a call for better signage .

 

In fact when crossing the bridge from the other side it is no better. According to the map issued to us from the council when travelling along Station Road and turning right onto the A1036 and just before the approach to the bridge you are then in a one way system and by then the bus lane sign is too late because there is nowhere for you to go to escape crossing over the bridge again. The bus lane signs are only visible *when you turn into Station Avenue the A1036 , and then it's too late you are heading for the bridge. In fact on this map that the council sent to us there are two photographs at the bottom of the page and neither show a bus lane sign, yet I have been issued with a PCN ...a bus lane penalty notice.

 

To say I am confused is an understatement, as the only signs encountered from the north are to say that the bridge is closed, which it patently wasn't as we saw plenty of local traffic using it. I was looking for a road/ bridge being closed off completely and as there wasn't I believed by following the traffic it was safe to proceed.

[ian1471]

Brilliant, lots to use here, thanks. Just one rather delicate question and excuse me for asking but do you think / know if the fact that you have a blue badge had influence on appeal result?

[Lissadenton]

I wouldn't have thought so. Not having the blue badge was the reason we had to look elsewhere for a parking spot. No, York council did not even contest it and we got a standard letter same as other people who were successful.

If you go to stop lendal bridge con on Facebook , a chap called Greg Dawson has done a brilliant video of him driving from gillygate, into st Leonard's place, showing bus blocking the sign at theatre royal , then turning right into museum st and ....yes he even went over the bridge. I suspect he did that before it closes for the day at 10-30 or after 5.

 

It's a big help though to everyone coming from that direction.

[frickshan]

Just seen this thread, had posted on the other! Here's an opportunity to hear the originators of this cunning plan! Not popular with residents either (I'm not allowed to post links it seems !!!!) BBC Radio York Jonathan Cowap Fri 29th Nov listen again 2days remaining may give you an idea. Interview with the geniuses we have running our fair city - In the process of amending the signs - @ 41m-40s The third time if I recall correctly? Surely an admission they're inadequate and may create an interesting situation should a wealthy individual decide to take it further!

[Lissadenton]

That's what I've said. Everyone caught before the signs change , get your claims in. Even if you've paid.

I understand they may even be accepting those that have already paid!