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sidley

old MBNA debt, sold to IDR/LINK - now got claim form - help

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HI there,

Due to ill health and before I got into financial trouble I went to CAB who suggested writing to all credit

and banks to inform them of my illness.

 

Most of them have been very helpful, apart from MBNA who then allegedly sold it on as soon as they could.

 

So, I need some help with this court case (end Oct)

I have been sending requests to MBNA to confirm that they sold the account to Link who sold it to IDR.

 

MBNA have been ignoring my letters,

I sent a SAR to all 3 which all of them ignored.

Contacted the ICO and eventually got some response from Link and MBNA, but still nothing about the selling of the account.

After exchanging list of documents with IDR I asked to see notice of assignment, notice of arrears and default notice.

 

I got these forward flow agreements;

no name on them just a bulk purchase agreement with all the other debts/accounts blanked out except mine.

This sheet was not attached to the flow agreement.

 

I requested confirmation from MBNA (since I did not receive notice of assignment etc.)

who just ignored my letters only one saying they do not keep the Notice of Arrears or Default notice on file

as these are autogenerated by the computer!!.

 

They have never confirmed sale.

 

I went to the Ombusdsman (FoS) and they said I should try to resolve it with MBNA first by putting in a formal complaint

to them that was months ago!

 

Just keep on getting odd occasional letters from them saying “ ..sorry for the delay we will contact you soon.”

 

Can anyone help or point me to someone who knows about these things?

 

I have tried 2 local solicitors (rural area) who have no idea about these matters.

 

One checked the Law database for Forward flow agreements but came up with nothing.

 

I received from Link an Application Form and T&C's which, as you can see, are almost unreadable.

IDR said that it was compliant with the CCA request - see what you think.

 

I feel that since the others have been helpful during my illness that MBNA should have done the same.

 

Complained to the Information Commissioner’s Office

– some success -

and FoS who told me to try and resolve it myself,

but time is running out what with all the hospital appointments for us both and a very sick elderly mother to look after.

 

Sidley

Edited by citizenB
formatting

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The Notices referred to are NOT archived, the creditor make a note on the debtors file that the notices were sent on a specific date.

 

Your attachments are too small.

Edited by BRIGADIER2JCS

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Hi,

 

Can you please rescan your documents using the method below and convert them into PDF format, at the moment they are too small to see.

 

 

Dx100 – Instructions on uploading pdfs

Scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all personal info including barcodes etc. using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

Go to one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new message box here

hit go advanced below the message box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB: you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

Then hit reply button

 


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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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You say a claim has been issued on this ?

 

Can you advise the date of issue of the claim - top right hand corner of the claim form and also let us know exactly what it says on the claim form - the reason they have issued the claim :)


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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks for the prompt replies. I will scan documents tomorrow and attach as pdf.

 

citizenB - the claim form originally from Northampton BCC is dated 29/06/2012. I filed a defence as MBNA had not supplied me with the Notice of Arrears or Default Notice or Assignment. I later sent the CCa request with payment to them all I got back was some generic T&C's. All went quiet until feb this year when IDR re-started the claim.

 

With advice from CAB I have written to MBNA (rec. del) many tmes requesting confirmation of sale - totally ignoring my letters. I would have expected at least something saying '..please don't bother us any longer as it has been sold'. But stonewalled instead.

 

I contacted the FoS who said I should make a formal complaint to MBNA, which I now have: still nothing only a letter every now and then saying sorry for the delay.

 

 

The Particulars of claim sates:

 

 

" that the defendant failed to make payment as required and by XX/XX/2011 a

default was recorded. As of XX/XX/2012 by an agreement the benefit of the debt

has been legally assigned to the claimant.

 

 

My other creditors finally agreed to an affordable monthly repayment which was set up by standing order.

 

However, MBNA insisted on sending me monthly payment slips

after 2 months they stopped arriving,

telephone requests for more payment slips never materialised.

 

Then the letters started arriving from IDR with no proof.

Requests have been ignored.

 

I finally got the ICO involved and received a limited response from both Link (I sent the SAR to IDR) and MBNA.

MBNA's response still shows no sign of sale or transfer. I'm still pursuing them thru the ICO because of these omissions.

 

But if they had indeed transferred the account why would they not provide the letters requested.

 

Surely it's in their interest, if they are indeed the owners, to provide this information. And why have MBNA refused a dozen or more times to confirm sale?

 

Thanks

 

sidley

Edited by citizenB

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Thanks for this sidley. As soon as you are able to scan those documents in, I will send out an S.O.S on your behalf.

 

So, you have submitted a defence and you now have an October hearing date?

 

You have not been provided with either a copy of, or proof that an Assignment has indeed taken place ?

 

Did you receive a copy of the Default Notice ?

 

You should have received a communication log which shows all actions taken on the account (from the MBNA SAR) from what you are saying though there does not appear to be any record of the assignment ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi There,

 

For some reason I uploaded the thumbnails of the jpeg images. Anyway, here are the scans in pdf format. As you can see with the CA - until the exchange of documents ( where I have a slightly cleaner and readable agreement) this is what I had to go on.

 

I will try to scan the more readable one but it is bigger than my A4 scanner; I will possibly have to scan it in 2 halves.

 

All of the others were only given to me after we exchanged lists of documents (didn't have anything to go on before) and I requested all of them.

 

Thank you all.

 

sidley

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In respect of a CCA request you are entitled to receive..

 

copy of, or truthful reconstruction of the agreement.

Terms and conditions from inception and at time of default or currently.

Statement of account

 

Did you receive a Default Notice at any time? If not, how have they covered themselves for that?

 

I do not understand what the fwd flow chart is for - is this proof that an assignment did indeed take place ?

 

Either MBNA or Link should have informed you of the assignment in writing.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi citizenB,

 

No. I have had nothing from MBNA re assignment or notice of default.

 

After exchange of documents with IDR they included copies of these,

but the letterhead and logo are different from everything I have received from MBNA?

 

Not sure if that's relevant.

 

When I SARed MBNA and after complaining to the Information Commissioner lack of response after 3 months, they were not included in that bundle.

 

I sent letter to MBNA asking for these documents, eventually got reply that these were autogenerated by their computer system and were not kept on file

 

! How did IDR get them and not me?

 

Log of account shows that it was closed. No further comments after that.

 

thanks for everything.

 

sidley

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citizenB,

 

The only default notice I received was from IDRs copy after disclosure of documents for the court case which I requested everything they were going to rely on. No default notice or assignment from MBNA themselves.

 

Your not the only one who doesn't understand the Forward Flow Agreements.

I have asked 2 local (rural) solicitors that I'm quite friendly with,

one even searched the Laws Society database and came up blank.

 

I've searched the web and can only find American reference to forward flow agreements for asset purchase.

 

Effectively, you agree to purchase an asset on a future date when the buyer decides to purchase.

These usually have a time limit for the intended purchaser,

if the purchaser does not buy the asset in that time then the seller can offer it to someone else.

 

It's an agreement to purchase but no transaction has taken place.

That's what I understand by it anyway.

Then when Link "sold it" to IDR they can only transfer the option to buy ( another flow agreement) as they don't own it.

 

the forward flow agreement makes reference to terms and conditions which I am not privy to; not included on the actual agreement.

 

Thanks again

 

sidley

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The forward flow (MBNA USA) is in connection with the assignment of the debt and forms part of the Deed of Assignment.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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However... forward flow documents only indicate an INTENTION to sell or purchase. There must be separate documents detailing the actual sale.

 

However, I’m not sure the deed of assignment is really of any use anyway.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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That said, the documents are improperly signed/executed, and it looks like a simple instant re-assignment from Link to IDR. IDR is part of Link, in all but name. It used to be called Asset Link Finance.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Are those T&Cs and the application form as illegible as your PDFs? If so, they will struggle to enforce them.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi DonkeyB,

 

Yes they are as illegible as that and were first sent to Northampton BCC before I got it switched to local court. IDR stated they were perfectly readable but they could enlarge it to A3 size if required. I said to them if it would make it more legible then fine, never heard back from them on that one.

 

However for the this court case they have managed to produce a more legible application form and T&C's but they are a bit larger than my scanner. I think I will have to split the scan someway and post those.

 

@andyorch

 

the foward flows then are acceptable for the assignment?

 

sidley

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DonkeyB,

 

What do you mean by improperly signed/executed?

 

regards and thanks

 

sidley

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In UK company law, to be signed as a deed there should be two signatories from each company, I seem to remember.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi,

 

I've finally managed to get a scan of the better quality Application form.

 

Any ideas on it greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks

 

sidley

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Hi sidley,

 

much better - I think DonkeyB might be a better person to ask regarding this - I was hoping he would pop in and it looks like he has. So he will get notice that this has been posted up.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi there,

 

Can anyone suggest an expert who can take a look at some documents for me. Namely, the reconstituted CCA and the alleged deed of assignment.

 

I don't mind paying a reasonable fee for their services. I've tried local solicitors (free advice) and have come up with different results, but none of them are experts in this field.

 

many thanks

 

sidley

 

PS you can view them on my other thread.

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Hello sidley.

 

We can't recommend experts, I'm afraid, it's against site rules. Please could you post a link to your other thread so people don't have to go hunting for it?

 

What kind of documents have you had please?

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thanks honeybee13,

 

Sorry, didn't realise it was against the rules, but I want advice about what type of expert I should go to. One solicitor suggested a financial expert and another one suggested a legal expert.the other suggested the Financial Ombudsman Service? None of them could recommend anyone in particular suggesting I should google for professional help. But who?

 

 

 

Thanks

 

sidley

 

Here's the link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?402706-old-MBNA-debt-sold-to-IDR-LINK-now-got-claim-form-help&p=4341577#post4341577

 

thanks

 

sidley

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Threads merged...please do not start new threads on the same matter.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

PS the CCA illegible therefore unenforceable.


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Hi everyone,

 

I have a question about regulation of DCAs.

 

I have a payment for an Old MBNA credit card set up with the "new" owners as IDR Finance UK Ltd (4 years now). Servicer is Link Financial Outsourcing Ltd.

 

As IDR Finance are no longer authorised by the FCA are they allowed to still own a regulated agreement?

 

Or does the fact the the servicer: Link Financial are still authorised (although not the owners) mean that everything is OK legally?

 

I know Link and IDR are run by the same organisation/people but as far as business is concerned they are not the same company.

 

Many thanks

 

sidley

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well they are ..covered by the groups licence

does mean anything in relation to owning bad debts.

 

I hope you've CCa 'd these muppets and aren't just blindly paying them all this time??


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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