Ijoseph v Abbey ** WON **

[ijoseph]

Been hoverring around for a while not sure where to start and getting as much info as possible!

 

Finally I sent my SAR to Abbey (and also to A&L as I'm pursuing them also) on 14th October 2006. SAR was received on 16th October 2006. So they have until 25th November to respond (£10 has come out of my account already...not sure if it's from A&L or Abbey).

[ijoseph]

I've been out of the country on business but on 1st Nov received the following.

 

"Thanks for your letter dated 12 October 2006 , which we received on 18th October 2006,"

 

letter was signed for on 16th so don't know what they did with it for two days

 

"requesting information on your account. I also acknowledge receipt of your £10 fee.

 

All transactional information you have requested us no longer available on our computer systems but has been archived onto microfiche records. I can confirm that arrangements have been made for this information to be forwarded to you.

 

You have also asked for details of any manual interventions that there may have been on your account. Although I am not entirely clear as to what infromation it is that you require, I am taking a manual intervention to be any action taken with regard to your account other than an automatic or computer-driven action.

 

You will appreciate that, first of all, not all manual interventions on your account may be recorded. For example, if a member of staff looks at a paper document relating to your account, a record of that activity will not always be made. Moreover, an intervention may be carried out by any one of a large number of departments in Abbey. There is no central record of such interventions because this is not the kind of information that we usually need nor, more importantly, information that a customer would normally request.

 

I regret therefor that I am unable to supply detailed information of any manual intervention. I am sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

 

If you have any questions please call us on the above number.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Pam Speed"

(08457 654321)

 

 

So the question is do I need to follow up with a threat that time is running out or do I take it that the fact she has stated that arrangements have been made to forward them to me that I wait until the deadline to pursue?

 

A&L have cashed my cheque but not yet responded.

[ijoseph]

OK......got home tonight and microfiche copies have arrived.

 

£510.50 in charges from my first sweep so will plug that into the spreadsheets tomorrow to find out the charges.

 

Should I claim for the £10 paid item charges.....it seems so small today but in 2000 I'm sure it was more than it cost them!

 

Any comments?

[ijoseph]

OK, have used the complex bank charges sheet from the templates and the total of:

 

Unauthourised O/D, Unpaid DD, Unpaid SO & Cleared Transaction comes to £525.50 between 2000 and 2005 when the account was open.

 

I am now having a problem with the interest part of the spreadsheet.

 

The microfiched records only list transactions. There are debit interest entries but there is no balance information so......how do I complete the spreadsheet or where do I go to calculate the interest charges?

 

 

HELP!

[ijoseph]

shameless BUMP

[bish]

On £525.50 I would not bother with the interest as it is going to be just a few pounds. As an example my charges amount to over £6000 and the interest is only just over £300. So in your case I would not bother with the interest as not worth the time and agro of working it out from the copy statements. Hope that helps.

 

Regards bish.

[ijoseph]

Abbey received my request for return of funds (from the templates library) on 4/12/06 and have replied on 6/12/06 with the following:

 

===========================================

Dear Mr. Joseph

 

Thank you for contacting us and I am sorry that you have been so unhappy that you have felt you must complain.

 

One of my team will be responsible for investigating your complaint and I have enclosed our complaints leaflet, which explains our procedure for doing this. High quality customer service is of great importance to us at Abby and we will do everything we can to resolve your complaint in a timely and satisfactory manner.

 

I know it is important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly, but we want to complete a thorough investigation and sometimes this can take time. If we have not contacted you before then, we will write to you in four weeks to let you know what is happening.

 

If you have employed someone to handle your complaint on your behalf, please note: employiong a third party complaint-handling firm, or a solicitor, or financial adviser does not affect how we review your complaint. Please be aware that:

 

- Abbey does not charge you to investigate your complaint

- Abbey will not be liable for any costs incurred if you do decide to employ a third party to handle your complaint during this review

- Abbey, in general, will only make payment directly to the account holder(s) if your complaint is upheld and redress is due

 

Although I do not know what the outcome will be, I do hope that we will be able to find a solution that you are happy with.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Andrew Nanson

Business Manager

 

===========================================

 

So this is basically a stalling tactic by them.

 

I will send the LBA to them on 19th December (the full two weeks time that I told them they had to resolve the issue).

 

 

 

EDIT: Can a mod please change the title of this thread to Joseph V Abbey

[ijoseph]

This morning the following letter arrived:

 

======================================================

 

Dear Mr. Joseph

 

Thank you for your letter dated 30 November 2006, about the charges on your bank account between 23 June 2000 and 14 July 2005, when your account with us was closed. I have now carried out a full investigation on your behalf.

 

I'm sorry you are unhappy with the charges and I understand you would like these refunded. I can confirm the charges were applied correctly, as you had insufficient funds at the time. I am therefore unable to agree to refund any charges.

 

I appreciate your feelings on this matter but we are satisfied that the charges do not contravene the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. We also comply with the Office of Fair Trading, in dealing fairly and openly with our customers.

 

When opening your account you were provided with information detailing the terms and conditions. We have also sent you regular updates and Tariff of Charges, which detail the amounts of our charges.

 

Please be assured I have carried out a full investigation for you and I hope you feel I have offered a considered and complete response to all of the issues you've raised. I will keep your file open for the next 8 weeks and if I don't hear from you within that time, I will assum that everything is resolved and will close your file. If you remain dissatisfied though, the leaflet you'll find with this letter explains your rights and how to take your complaint further within Abbey. The address to contact is:

 

Complaints

Abbey

PO Box 5129

Milton Keynes

MK9 2YN

 

If you remain unhappy with the response from the Complaints Department, you have an ultimate right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Lesley Sheridan

Senior Customer Resolution Manager

 

=======================================================

 

So basically the old "T&Cs were agreed by yourself when you opened the account" line.

 

LBA gets sent tomorrow.

 

 

Can a moderator please change the thread title to Joseph v Abbey? Thanks

[ijoseph]

Couple of quick questions. Am about to print out LBA. I assume now I can add the £10 SAR fee and the cost of recorded delivery letters to the schedule. Is this right?

I also assume I have to send a cpy of the new schedule to them as well?

[ijoseph]

LBA Sent today.

 

What with Christmas and boiler blowing up this had to get put on a back burner.

[ijoseph]

Letter received 12th Jan....written 9th Jan

 

"Dear Mr. Joseph,

 

I have just received details of your complaint and I am sorry to hear theat we have not yet been able to resolve your concerns. One of my team will look at all the relevant facts, review any paperwork and talk to the people involved, so that they fully understand the problem.

 

I know it is important to you that we resolve your complaint quickly. However, we want to do a thorough investigation and this can take time. We will investigate your concern fully and reply to you within four weeks.

 

Although I do not know what the outcome will be, I do hope that we will be able to find a solution that you are happy with.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Marc Winder

Head of Complaints"

 

So another stalling letter. The LBA was sent on 3rd Jan and signed for on 4th Jan so the 14 days runs out tomorrow. I am away tomorrow and Friday so will have to proceed with the next step on Saturday.

[ijoseph]

Today I received not one, but two letters! They are both dated 16th Jan 2007.

 

The first is from Marc Winder asking for another 4 weeks to investigate.

 

The second is posted below. I guess this must be another standard letter, can anyone advise if they too have received a similar letter?????

 

"Dear Mr Joseph,

 

Thank you for your letter dated 3 January 2007, about your charges. I am sorry you feel these contravene the Unfair Terms in the Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

 

Having carried out a full investigation, we believe the charges do not contravene those regulations and therefore I cannot agree to refund them.

 

The regulations say that we must explain our charges in plain language and that we have to act in good faith, which according to the Office of Fair Trading, means dealing fairly and openly with customers.

 

I therefore reviewed the literature and information you received when you opened your account, including the terms and conditions. This explains that charges will be applied if you do not keep to the terms and conditions. This explains that charges will be applied if you do not keep to the terms of the account. Because of this, I believe we have been fair and open in telling you about them. The charges were correct, because you did not have enough money in your account to cover payments requested from it. When I looked at the history of your account I found that, unfortunately, this was not the first time this has happened.

 

I can see we also did our best to make you aware of the importance of managing your account to prevent the situation happening again. I am sorry that, because of this, I cannot agree to refund these charges.

 

I am confident that I have been fair and have taken into account all the points you made in your letter, but if you have any additional points that you would like to discuss with me, please call me on 0845 600 6014. I have enclosed a leaflet about the Financial Ombudsman Service, in case you are not happy with my investigation or decision. If so, you should contact them within six months of the date of this letter, enclosing a copy of it, as they would need this for their investigation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

John McGeevor

Senior Customer Resolution Manager

 

I guess this means that I go onto submit my claim directly to the court now but have a few worries about their interpretation of the regulations.

 

I presume they have just chosen to ignore the stipulation that penalties imposed should not exceed the costs to the bank or am I missing something??????????????

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Lula]

Hi, the letters that you have received are all autogenerated letters that we all receive, I have enough to paper a wall LOL. You have given them a deadline so stick to it, this case is going to be governed by your deadlines, send off that N1 when the 14 days after the LBa are up.

[ijoseph]

Wow Lula!

 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

14 days was up yesterday! So time to file I guess.

 

Thanks again.

[ijoseph]

Haven't yet gone onto MCOL as I want to try and understand the basic court bundle and am waiting for the Small Claims pack to arrive but I have a question regarding the Schedule of Charges.

 

When I put this in my court pack do I also add the SAR fee, the cost of recorded delivery letters and the court fee(s) or is that for the court to issue?

[ijoseph]

*BumP*

 

I am about to start the court process. Do I add the SAR cost and my postage costs to the schedule of charges or do I keep them on a separate sheet to present if I win?????

[Lula]

I very much doubt if you will get them back, but if you get to the stage of doing a court bundle, then I am sure that you will find some way f incorprating these costs when they beg you to settle.

 

I would just keep a note of them for the time being

[ijoseph]

Thanks again Lula.

 

 

Submitted MCOL this morning. Claim number 7QZ10374.

 

Am bricking myself as I'm still not sure about the whole process no matter how much I read!

 

MCOL has no facility to lodge with a particular court, what if they allocate a London court. Also I travel extensively what if they set a date when I am overseas???? (where is the biting nails emoticon)!

[ijoseph]

Anyone?

 

Submitting through MCOL:

 

Will my claim automatically be allocated to my local court????

[ijoseph]

My MCOL claim seems to have been allocated to Northampton County Court!!!!

 

1) Is this normal for MCOL claims?????

 

2) Does this mean I will have to travel all the way to Northampton if it does go to court (I know it's unlikely to but nonetheless) and if so will I be entitled to claim travelling costs???

 

3) I presume the quote below means that the court will serve the claim??

 

Your claim request has been accepted. The Defendant has 14 days from the date they are served with the claim, to reply.

 

4) If not, how do I go about serving the claim or if so, how will I know when they have been served.

 

Sorry if these a numpty questions!

[ijoseph]

*bump*

 

Anyone?

[bish]

Hi ijoseph,

 

Yes all MCOL claims are allocated to a central court in Northampton, yours will be sent to your local court in due course, the court will serve the defendant with the claim. Have a good read of the site, look at the FAQ's and library as well as as many posts on the abbey site as you can. We are all a bit numpty at the start, the good thing is we all improve with time abbey are still numpty after all this time.

 

Regards bish.

[ijoseph]

Thanks bish.

 

It's been a while since I read all the FAQs and stickies so some of the stuff just hasn't lodged in the grey matter.

[ijoseph]

Just an update.

 

Notice of Issue received today saying that the court issued the claim to ShAbbey on 29th Jan 2007 and it will be deemed served on 3rd February 2007.

 

ShAbbey need to reply by 17th Feb 2007.

 

Best busy myself with my bundle then.

[ijoseph]

Today the Acknowledgement of service landed on my mat.

 

ShAbbey have stated that they intend to defend all of this claim.

 

James Arrandale is their Solicitor for this one.

 

So....they now have 28 days to submit their defence.

 

Just in case anyone else missed this when going through MCOL.....this user guide is really good and answers some of the dumb questions I asked earlier!!!

 

Her Majesty's Courts Service