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brewery issued ccj claim


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Hi guys,

Briefly....

I came out of a brewery owned pub 18 months ago after losing 20k and still owing brewery 7k!

 

Have spent over a year trying to get them to accept £10 a month as is all I can afford, with no luck.

 

They passed it to their solicitor about 6 months ago and after to-ing and fro-ing with them still no joy.

 

They have now sent me ccj claim form!

 

Could someone please tell me if I can defend the interest portion and court cost as this amounts to about another £750!!!

 

Have lots of other debts which I have dealt with one way or another after following guidelines on this fab site

but can't believe the brewery have gone down this route.

 

Any info gratefully received.

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Can you let us know the date of issue of the claim - top right hand corner of the form.

 

Also can you please type out exactly what it says on the claim form - eg, the reason they are issuing it :)

 

I will also move your thread to the legal forums where you will be noticed by the right caggers :)

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Hi citizen,

 

date of service is 5/9/2013 so think I'm right in assuming I have until 19th Sept to respond?

 

Brief details of claim are:

 

"for an unpaid account" which I am not disputing that I owe, just bit peeved that they are adding the extra interest etc.!

 

When we gave our 6 months notice in September 2011

we were already struggling then but the brewery didn't interview until Jan 2012

so we had to serve full 6 months notice which didn't help!

 

This and more has been pointed out to brewery and their solicitor but seems it has fallen on deaf ears!!

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Can you post up the POC on the claim form.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Scanner not working but worded as follows:

 

the defendant leased premises at xxxxxxx

Unfortunately in breach of the agreement between the defendant and the claimant,

the defendant fell into arrears and ultimately had to vacate the property.

 

At the time she vacated the property the total sum of £6997.51 was owed to the claimant.

 

A summary account is attached.

 

Unfortunately despite several efforts to come to an agreement the defendant has failed to clear the arrears save for a £20 payment.

 

The defendant has acknowledged the sums due to the claimant but has claimed that she is unable to repay at this time.

 

The claimant has sought to agree a repayment plan but to date there have been no acceptable proposals.

There has also been no evidence provided as to the defendants financial means.

It is noted that the defendant is the registered proprietor of her property.

 

The claimant also claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 to the date of judgement

or sooner payment to be calculated at the rate of 8% per annum a mounting to 472.56

at today's date and accruing thereafter at the daily rate of 1.53.

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If the date of service was 5/9 then you have 14 days to acknowledge and confirm if you are going to defend - if so you have a further 14 days. So that would be 19th September to acknowledge and then 3rd October to submit a defence (33 days from date of ISSUE)

 

Have you acknowledged the claim yet ? I am assuming this was a claim issued from the Bulk clearing centre at Northampton ?

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Scanner not working but worded as follows: the defendant leased premises at xxxxxxx

 

Unfortunately in breach of the agreement between the defendant and the claimant, the defendant fell into arrears and ultimately had to vacate the property. At the time she vacated the property the total sum of £6997.51 was owed to the claimant. A summary account is attached.

 

Unfortunately despite several efforts to come to an agreement the defendant has failed to clear the arrears save for a £20 payment.

 

The defendant has acknowledged the sums due to the claimant but has claimed that she is unable to repay at this time. The claimant has sought to agree a repayment plan but to date there have been no acceptable proposals. There has also been no evidence provided as to the defendants financial means. It is noted that the defendant is the registered proprietor of her property.

 

The claimant also claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 to the date of judgement or sooner payment to be calculated at the rate of 8% per annum a mounting to 472.56 at today's date and accruing thereafter at the daily rate of 1.53.

 

 

I am not sure what they mean by the "registered proprietor" of her property ? Are you a home owner ? If so, it looks to me as though they are wanting to go for a charging order as well !

 

I will flag your thread for advice from others on the site team. I think they probably wont look in until tomorrow !

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks citizen. Yes I do (jointly) own my house, was assuming they after charging order. However my house in negative equity so no use to anyone right now!! So do I send back admission form and defence to the solicitor. Or to the court?

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The court. Do it online using the info on the MCOL claim form. You have some time, so dont rush into it.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Hi again guys (and girls!)

 

Just continuing from yesterday's post. I have now registered tonight on the MCOL website, but just wanted an answer to my original question which was whether I can defend about the interest portion of the claim?

 

Many thanks.

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simple ans is no

 

they are entitled to add 8% court [section 69] interest.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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If you admit ANY part of the claim, then you get a CCJ. The only way to avoid a CCJ is to contest the entire claim and win.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Thanks renegade, yes I understand that so don't think I can do anything other than admit the claim as I do owe them the money! Just can't believe that when I can't afford to pay them 7k they think that adding another £500 is going to make it better?!!

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we have seen several brewery related debts here

 

we sometimes find 'holes' in what they claim you owe.

 

if you wish

 

tell us the story.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks dx.

 

Relatively simple story.

 

Became tenants of pub in October 2009.

 

Put in 20k to "buy" fixtures and fittings and purchase stock, all completely usual.

 

We were struggling after year 1 and told the brewery this but they were no help whatsoever.

 

Their beer prices(which we were tied in to) were ridiculously more expensive than the local cash and carry although their rent was cheaper than most at £10,500 per annum.

 

Year 2 became more of a struggle so we gave in our notice in September 2011.

 

Notice period was 6 months, but you can leave as soon as the brewery has found a suitable replacement tenant.

 

However they didn't even begin interviewing until January 2012 so we didn't leave until March 2012.

 

On leaving we apparently owed such a huge amount still to the brewery that after taking into account the payment from the New tenant for fixtures fitting etc

we were still left with just under £7000 still owing.

 

If the brewery had interviewed earlier so that we hadn't had to remain there for the full 6 months notice period we may have reduced the debt by a fair amount!

 

In hindsight we should have come out sooner but stupidly you think that it will turn a corner at some point. It never did!

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I take it you meant £20k so I have edited your post above

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi again

 

Anyone who was following my thread last week will know that brewery that I ran a pub for sent me ccj claim forms last week.

 

To try and see if I have any defence I have spoken to my accountant that I used at the time to see if I can find any "holes" in the figures as suggested in previous post. I have contacted the brewery today to ask for a transaction history as advised by the accountant and their response has been "they are not sure if they can do that"!!

 

Can I send them an sar request as there is no credit agreement like in a credit card or loan??

 

Also I am about to send the acknowledgement service form to the court to allow me the extra time for defence but if I do get the transaction history and can find nothing wrong can I then admit the claim??

 

Many thanks

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You need to send them the appropriate CPR request which relates to the POC shown on the court claim.

 

CPR 31.14 ?

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part31

We could do with some help from you.

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Scanner not working but worded as follows:

 

the defendant leased premises at xxxxxxx

Unfortunately in breach of the agreement between the defendant and the claimant,

the defendant fell into arrears and ultimately had to vacate the property.

 

At the time she vacated the property the total sum of £6997.51 was owed to the claimant.

 

A summary account is attached.

 

Unfortunately despite several efforts to come to an agreement the defendant has failed to clear the arrears save for a £20 payment.

 

The defendant has acknowledged the sums due to the claimant but has claimed that she is unable to repay at this time.

 

The claimant has sought to agree a repayment plan but to date there have been no acceptable proposals.

There has also been no evidence provided as to the defendants financial means.

It is noted that the defendant is the registered proprietor of her property.

 

The claimant also claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 to the date of judgement

or sooner payment to be calculated at the rate of 8% per annum a mounting to 472.56

at today's date and accruing thereafter at the daily rate of 1.53.

 

I have merged two threads as they both relate to the claim that has been issued.

 

If you are requiring the transaction history you should use CPR 31.14 - looking at the Particulars of Claim above, then you should be able to do this. Although I will ask for some further advice for you.

 

If you feel that time is slipping away and you require more time, then you will need to ask the Claimant (through their solicitor) if they will agree to extend the time by 28 days. Your request will be made under CPR 15.5. You need for them to not only agree, but to agree in writing with a specific date. Which you then need to copy to the court advising them that the parties to the claim have agreed a new filing date.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Ok adapted CPR 31.14 request below.

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. [ YOU SAY THERE IS NO AGREEMENT HOWEVER THEIR POC CLAIMS THAT YOU ARE IN BREACH OF ONE ? ]

 

2: transaction history

 

5: [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £10,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

 

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Please read the draft above carefully and edit where necessary.

 

Send by Recorded delivery to the Solicitor.

 

If there is anything else you require that is NOT mentioned or implied within the PoC you will need to use CPR part 18 which will be a request for information only. If you think you will need anything else, let me know and I will draft a Part 18 for you.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks so much citizenb that is a great help, as when I read previous post I wasn't sure where to begin!! I'm assuming the solicitor is referring to the original lease agreement?

 

Will get this posted off today, am assuming I still send the acknowledgement form to the court that informs them I need more time?

 

Thanks again

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If you defend only part you will automatically receive a CCJ.

 

Hold off on sending that letter until Monday.. I will ask someone to look in on you.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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