Welsh Water

[mintminty59]

Welsh water have since been awarded a CCJ against me for unpaid water rates which I had a dispute over.

 

My question is this, my origonal water bill was £2,800 and they have been awarded a CCJ for £3,400 the rest was legal charges or fees as they like to call them

 

I phoned them and agreed to pay £3000 immiediatly to bring the case to an end, as you can imagine they refused point blank and have done so from the start.

 

Am I within my rights to ask for a detailed run down of there costs and recipts so I can reduce the so called charges elements to there claim. I am more than willing to pay some costs and the actual water bill itself.

 

What plan of action can I take from here.

[renegadeimp]

DIdnt you turn up at court and contest the CCJ?

[mintminty59]

No I submitted a defence, but there really isnt one as its a bill by law you have to pay. And I could not get the time off work. I am not disputing the bill itself just there fees

[The Mould]

Welsh water have since been awarded a CCJ against me for unpaid water rates which I had a dispute over.

 

My question is this, my origonal water bill was £2,800 and they have been awarded a CCJ for £3,400 the rest was legal charges or fees as they like to call them

 

I phoned them and agreed to pay £3000 immiediatly to bring the case to an end, as you can imagine they refused point blank and have done so from the start.

 

Am I within my rights to ask for a detailed run down of there costs and recipts so I can reduce the so called charges elements to there claim. I am more than willing to pay some costs and the actual water bill itself.

 

What plan of action can I take from here.

 

Do not telephone them again as regards this matter.

 

Write to them (Special Delivery by 1 pm) and offer your £3,000.00 in full and final settlement of their claim, without any admission of liability to the same on the condition that they notify the Court that CCJ has been settled. Request their response to your F+F settlement offer by return stating that if they agree to such, you will forward cheque payment made out in full and final of their said claim within 7 days upon your receipt of their written acceptance hereto.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[mintminty59]

The legal department said on the phone, they want it all no iffs no buts and will go ahead with enfourcement. Problem is I have about 21 days before the CCJ is perm on my credit file.Is that enough time. Do you think its worth emailing them?

[catquest]

How could there be such high fees when it was a Small Claim ?

[The Mould]

The legal department said on the phone, they want it all no iffs no buts and will go ahead with enfourcement. Problem is I have about 21 days before the CCJ is perm on my credit file.Is that enough time. Do you think its worth emailing them?

 

Yes indeed, plenty of time to make your full and final settlement offer. You clearly disagree with their fees added because you contacted them to resolve this matter which they clearly and, in my opinion, unreasonably refused to accept. 7 days for them to respond and accept or reject, leaves you with 14 days to decide what you want to do next.

 

I understand that you do not dispute the water bill, however, you have clearly stated here of your efforts to resolve the matter, water Co. disregarded your said efforts and, in my opinion, incurred unnecessary legal costs, I do not accept that you are liable for these said legal costs.

 

It is your call my dear fellow, if I was facing the same, based upon the circumstances posted here by you, I would offer the £3,000.00 in full and final without any admission of liability to amount claimed. I believe that the Court, the High Court that is, would accept that you have made a great effort to resolve this matter and that your offer of £3k was most reasonable and that water Co rejection of such was unreasonable.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[mintminty59]

Thank you, I am glad I am not the only one who feels a bit miffed by it. Is there anyway you could do me a quick draft as you clearly know your stuff. Muhos thanks

[The Mould]

Thank you, I am glad I am not the only one who feels a bit miffed by it. Is there anyway you could do me a quick draft as you clearly know your stuff. Muhos thanks

 

I shall see if I can draft a brief full and final letter for you my dear fellow CAG member.

 

Possibly post it up for you later today.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[mintminty59]

Thank you very much.

[The Mould]

Dear Sirs

Without Prejudice Save as to Costs

RE: Water Bill (state any account No. here)

I refer to youletter dated (put date of their letter here) and respond to the same.

As you are aware, Ido not dispute the £3,000.00 due on this account as regards the servicesprovided by you. I do however disputethe fees that you have added onto the same.

You will appreciatethat I contacted you by way of telephone on (put date) as regards the matter of the £3,000.00 owed andduring the course of that telephone call I offered to pay the said £3,000.00;you refused to accept my said offer and instructed your legal department totake the matter further. I consider yourrefusal to accept my offer to pay the full amount of £3,000.00 on this accountas unreasonable and I further consider that any legal costs incurred by you tobe wholly disproportionate and unreasonable, given that I acknowledged theamount of £3,000.00 claimed by you as owed by me and clearly stated that I waswilling to pay that said amount in full.

In thesecircumstances, in order to bring about a satisfactory closure to this matterfor all parties concerned with the same, I enclose herewith a cheque paymentmade out for the amount of £3,000.00 (three thousand pounds sterling) in fulland final settlement of the above account without any admission of liability tothe amount claimed thereon. If you donot accept the enclosed cheque payment for the purpose it is tendered hereby,please return the said cheque payment within 7 days of receipt hereof.

In the event ofyour refusal to accept the said enclosed cheque payment for the purpose it ishereby tendered for, should you present the same for payment and upon it beingduly honoured and then send a further letter to me requesting the amount whichyou claim on this account, I must advise you that you ought to seek independentproper legal advice, because should you disregard the clear and unequivocalpurposes and conditions that the enclosed cheque was tendered by after you havepresented the same for payment and that payment having being honoured, you willfind that you are in fact in fundamental breach of this full and finalsettlement agreement and that your strict rights under any agreement between ushas been extinguished by your conduct in presenting the said cheque enclosedherewith.

Yours faithfully

Mr Settled

Kind regards

The Mould

[mintminty59]

Sounds very good. So basically the bill was approx £2,800 they got a CCJ for £3,400 I offered them £3,000 as a middle ground. I dont have a cheque book tho so will have to get a bankers draft but I think its the same thing.

[The Mould]

Sounds very good. So basically the bill was approx £2,800 they got a CCJ for £3,400 I offered them £3,000 as a middle ground. I dont have a cheque book tho so will have to get a bankers draft but I think its the same thing.

 

Then please make them the F+ F Offer as suggested in order to bring closure to this matter.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[mintminty59]

Thank you very much for your help I send that out tuesday special delivery like you said

[renegadeimp]

Recorded delivery

[ploddertom]

I may be playing devils advocate here but if you owed that much in the first place then this must have gone on for a year or three. They will argue you have been given ample opportunity to pay and it is only by obtaining a CCJ that you now want to play ball. Sorry but for me Judgment has been made and you will find the CCJ is already on your credit file and only if you pay in full before the the month is up will it be removed otherwise you will be stuck with it. Next stage - and they may already have done it - is to instruct a HCEO to collect, then the debt will rise astronomically.

[The Mould]

Yes CCJ AWARDED FOR £3,400

 

OP is willing to settle the same at £3,000.00, therefore, if water Co. willing to accept such settlement offer, end of matter. If water Co. not willing to accept said £3k in full and final, the op can show the Court that he has made a very reasonable offer and that "I phoned them and agreed to pay £3000 immiediatly to bring the case to an end, as you can imagine they refused point blank and have done so from the start", based upon the material posted here by op, the water Co. has acted unreasonably in my opinion.

 

F+F Offer referred to by me is still a very good opportunity to end this matter amicably for both parties.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[Ganymede]

Yes CCJ AWARDED FOR £3,400

 

OP is willing to settle the same at £3,000.00, therefore, if water Co. willing to accept such settlement offer, end of matter. If water Co. not willing to accept said £3k in full and final, the op can show the Court that he has made a very reasonable offer and that "I phoned them and agreed to pay £3000 immiediatly to bring the case to an end, as you can imagine they refused point blank and have done so from the start", based upon the material posted here by op, the water Co. has acted unreasonably in my opinion.

 

F+F Offer referred to by me is still a very good opportunity to end this matter amicably for both parties.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

 

 

Why will the Court care about a short settlement offer? As far as the Court is concerned there is a CCJ in place for £3400.00 and that is what needs to be paid.

[The Mould]

The Court does not care.

 

If Claimant is willing to settle judgment debt of £4k at £2k, the Court does not care.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[mintminty59]

Why will the Court care about a short settlement offer? As far as the Court is concerned there is a CCJ in place for £3400.00 and that is what needs to be paid.

 

I am confused now, should I just pay them? CCJ is not yet on my file

[caro]

Yes you should just pay the CCJ. For the sake of £400 it's a small price to avoid a CCJ on your file for 6 years.

 

I see no reason why welsh water would accept less.

[steampowered]

It is a little difficult to contest this now since you did not attend the hearing to decide your dispute. You generally need to make settlement offers before a case goes to court, not after the court has given judgment.

 

I imagine most of the amount is interest. Unless there are special rules for the water industry, Welsh Water would normally be entitled to 8% interest on all outstanding amounts. This should have been set out on their Particulars of Claim. They will also automatically be entitled to certain fixed costs under Part 45 of the CPR (see http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part45-fixed-costs).

 

You can certainly make an offer along the lines suggested, and it is possible the water company may accept. Just remember there are risks involved. Welsh Water is entitled to begin enforcement immediately, whether by bailiffs or some other method, and you would most likely be liable for the costs of that. You also need to make sure that the amount is considered fully satisfied by Welsh Water before the CCJ registration deadline and that this is reported to the court by Welsh Water.

[Ganymede]

The Court does not care.

 

If Claimant is willing to settle judgment debt of £4k at £2k, the Court does not care.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

 

 

You missed the point. You said the debtor could show the Court he had made an offer to attempt to settle the debt of £3000.00 if the creditor refused it.

 

I was asking what the relevance of this was and why the Court would concern itself with short settlement offers post CCJ. That is between the Claimant and Defendant.

[The Mould]

I am confused now, should I just pay them? CCJ is not yet on my file

 

If you have the full £3,400.00, then pay the full amount.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[citizenB]

This thread is now in "General Legal Issues"

 

It is purely an administrative move.