JCP's "training provider" paying me not to complain? Fraudulent claim?

[LuckyReds]

I was on ESA for around 2 years, and had to attend a programme at a local training/employment provider. I attended once, filled in their assessment, and spoke to one of the members of staff - who, after being quite rude, softened up when I showed her my CV and spoke about how much I actually wanted to go back to work... but that my doctor was strongly advising me against it. She told me not come back.

 

This suited me as I've never been so disgusted as when I went in to their offices, saw them joke about clients and their poor circumstances, and threaten them when they asked for help.

 

I've now been working for 6 months (woo..) and they've decided to ring me, multiple times. When I asked them why I was informed that..

 

"You've been on our systems for 99 weeks, and the duration of our programme lasts for 104 weeks. I've been tasked with chasing you up. Thats great that you've found work, can you now give us your employment details?"

 

I mulled it over and refused, sent them quite a strong email and requested that they cease asking me. Well, they didn't - they ignored my email and continued.. So I sent them a stronger email - threatening to report their conduct to the DWP/JCP and the ICO w/ regards to harassing me over personal data.

 

Surprise surprise, this threat got them to respond:

 

Hi ******,

 

I can only apologise to you for your past experiences. Here in ******* our team of staff are very friendly and helpful and any complaints that are made would be dealt with efficiently and appropriately. I sincerely do apologise for your bad experience.

 

In order for the DWP to claim their payments for customers that start work we need to collate your job start information. Once a customer has been referred to the work programme they remain on the programme for two years. Which means we need to have regular fortnightly contact with you to meet our minimum service level agreement as set out by the DWP. This would remain the same if you have started work but have not given over the job details.

 

With regards to your written complaint to the DWP i just want to make you aware that it is the DWP that set the requirements of us to chase up Job Start details.

 

As a good will gesture i have discussed your issues with my manager and in order to obtain your job start details we are willing to send you a cheque for £50.00.

 

Please can you contact me ASAP

 

Even if you added a 1, or a 2, in front of that number - I'd still refuse to give them my personal data as I don't trust them. However, I've bolded one bit in particular: am I right in saying that she wants my details to claim that they've been in contact with me every 2 weeks? (When in fact, they've contacted me once in 99 weeks?) Furthermore, are they simply going to pay me for this information - so they can pass it on the DWP?

 

The information they want is my employer, job title, employers contact details, manager and so on. They aren't getting it.

 

It's left a bad taste in my mouth as they were a truly vile and toxic company, and one that I would love to see fall in to some hot water. I never complained because of my health, and as the incident(s) were so long ago I can't see the point in complaining now.

 

However this latest email got to thinking that they are scared of getting complaints, to the point they'd rather pay you to STFU. Has anyone got any advice for dealing with them now? Accept the money? Complain? Forward the email(s) to DWP? Take the money as a "goodwill gesture", wait 5 weeks for them to hand my file over to the DWP, then send the documents to the DWP so they can spot any fraudulent entries in my records that have been inserted? (i.e meetings that never occurred, that I've got correspondence proving they never happened?)

 

I feel sorry for the people attending their right now, I really do, hence why the money doesn't matter so much as ensuring these cowboys sort their act out.

[Hacked_Off]

There offering you money so they can claim a nice wad of cash for supposedly helping you into work. I wouldn't even entertain them further, there trying to cash cow you. I for ignore!

[LuckyReds]

Thought as much! Pondering whether it's essentially fraud?!

 

I was also concerned that they were pushing this, whilst the email exchange concedes, quite openly, that they didn't stick to their contractual obligations...! So in essence, they are trying to get my information to claim their funding back, despite not doing anything at all. Naughty.

 

I think I've read it's generally about a £500 payment per person, so that's a nice little £450 profit they're trying to get there. No chance.

[Hacked_Off]

Thought as much! Pondering whether it's essentially fraud?!

 

I was also concerned that they were pushing this, whilst the email exchange concedes, quite openly, that they didn't stick to their contractual obligations...! So in essence, they are trying to get my information to claim their funding back, despite not doing anything at all. Naughty.

 

I think I've read it's generally about a £500 payment per person, so that's a nice little £450 profit they're trying to get there. No chance.

 

I do believe its a lot more than £500, I think we're talking thousands the longer your in the job, and they hound your employer.

 

I'd pass on that email to the dwp along with some sort of complaint about how they never did what there supposed to and anything else you can think of. I wouldn't be telling the dwp were your working either, it's none of their business and they'll likely just pass it on.

[LuckyReds]

I do believe its a lot more than £500, I think we're talking thousands the longer your in the job, and they hound your employer.

 

I'd pass on that email to the dwp along with some sort of complaint about how they never did what there supposed to and anything else you can think of. I wouldn't be telling the dwp were your working either, it's none of their business and they'll likely just pass it on.

 

Oh dear, I that's even worse then! Admittedly I stumbled across the £500 figure from another forum a few years back.

 

Unfortunately the chap at the DWP required my employment details when I stopped my ESA claim back in January, fortunately my companies recently re-branded, changed names and moved office..

[Hacked_Off]

"Although Work Programme providers can get a maximum payment of £14,000 for every ESA claimant who goes into a secure job, the work and pensions select committee report on Tuesday suggests that this high payment has not stopped companies from "parking" those who appear to be very hard to help."

 

Nice 14k there for them doing naff all. That's why their so keen. Maybe get something into the dwp removing your consent to share your data to third parties.

[LuckyReds]

"Although Work Programme providers can get a maximum payment of £14,000 for every ESA claimant who goes into a secure job, the work and pensions select committee report on Tuesday suggests that this high payment has not stopped companies from "parking" those who appear to be very hard to help."

 

Nice 14k there for them doing naff all. That's why their so keen. Maybe get something into the dwp removing your consent to share your data to third parties.

 

Whoa, maximum for 14k?! Nice work if you can get it... (Excuse the slight irony there )

 

I will send a letter off to the DWP about their conduct then, and send another one with regards to my personal data. Any addresses/templates that you know of to give me a head start? Cheers!

[Hacked_Off]

Whoa, maximum for 14k?! Nice work if you can get it... (Excuse the slight irony there )

 

I will send a letter off to the DWP about their conduct then, and send another one with regards to my personal data. Any addresses/templates that you know of to give me a head start? Cheers!

 

 

 

http://consentarchive.wordpress.com/workfareconsent/

[LuckyReds]

http://consentarchive.wordpress.com/workfareconsent/

 

That's a goldmine, thank you very much!

 

This is the first time I've had to deal with anything like this, I had to fight back over an appeal a few years back - but apart from that, I'm more used to sending disgruntled letters to banks and the like.

[osdset]

I don't think the provider is breaking the rules as far as the DWP are concerned, and the DWP will show little interest on the subject of the providers lack of effort in the help department so a complaint is unlikely to go anywhere.

 

Ensure consent has been withdrawn and the next time they phone give 'em an earful.

[Hacked_Off]

I don't think the provider is breaking the rules as far as the DWP are concerned, and the DWP will show little interest on the subject of the providers lack of effort in the help department so a complaint is unlikely to go anywhere.

 

Ensure consent has been withdrawn and the next time they phone give 'em an earful.

 

Indeed, even when rules have been broken the dwp show little interest and are incapable of the simplest if tasks, like filing a letter for example. But still, you may get some satisfaction from writing what you think if nothing else!

[Mr.P]

£50to elicit information that net them ~£14,000 - That is tantamount to bribery which is a criminal offence in this country. To label it as a "goodwill gesture" is, at best, laughable, but as it is conditional on employer information being provided, I'd regard it as a bribe. Write a letter outlining the amount of contact, help and support from this "provider" pointing out how it falls well short of even the minimum contracted level of service and also emphasise the attempt at bribery. Mark it "for the personal attention" and post it to:

Derek French/Clare Elliot

Head of Work Programmes

Department for Work and Pensions

Level 4

Steel City House

56 West Street

Sheffield

S1 2GQ

 

Also send a copy to:

Margaret Hodge MP

House of Commons

London

SW1A 0AA.

[email protected]

 

 

No that you are working, it is your taxes (and mine) that they are trying to defraud the DWP out of.

[stu007]

This DWP link may be of use: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml

 

and these PDFs from that link were an interesting read:

Edited August 24, 2013 by citizenB

[LuckyReds]

A big thanks to everyone who has replied!

 

Just a quick update, after being very busy for a few weeks - I've just got off letters to the address mentioned above. I shall keep you guys updated with any responses.

 

Lastly, and although this was strictly unintended.. it does mean that they will most likely have put their claim in now. I would be very interested in finding out if they did claim for the services they provided me with..! I guess I'll never know...

[fletch70]

I would also email your own MP showing how these companies work. They should be horrified to se such a waste of public money. If you really want to cause a stir I am such the Daily Fascist would love to hear about it (Daily Mail )

 

This explains why they have asked me to sign consent form to let them contact any future employer and DWP ( I refused to sign)

[san_d]

"Although Work Programme providers can get a maximum payment of £14,000 for every ESA claimant who goes into a secure job, the work and pensions select committee report on Tuesday suggests that this high payment has not stopped companies from "parking" those who appear to be very hard to help."

 

Nice 14k there for them doing naff all. That's why their so keen. Maybe get something into the dwp removing your consent to share your data to third parties.

I think there are quite a few errors here, although we all agree the Welfare to Work system is corrupt and inefficient. The WP provider gets around £500 for a referral (this is why they need to cozy up and possibly bribe the Jobcntre managers). After that they only get around £2k if they can secure a job that lasts longer than 2 years, that is virtually impossible, hence they are only interested in parking and creaming.

 

When the candidate finds a job, however sustainable it may be, they don't get any money but they use this piece of information to build a case with the DWP and show off they can actually find you a job. So they don't make money immediately, however they get more referrals and hence they make more money. I hope this clarifies the issue. Source: my ex-pimp.

[Mr.P]

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmworpen/162/16208.htm - Attachment fees were set at £400 for each claimant group. Outcome payments vary, but each claimant is worth between £3700 and £13720 in total.

 

Note: The attachment fees were due to be reduced to zero during the first few years of the WP contract. Not sure if this has happened, but the providers are bleating about insufficient funding.

[osdset]

That's £400 per head free money, aren't attachment fees supposed to end in 2014? No doubt the usual suspects have gone whining to the government again saying how the 'model' will be unsustainable without attachment fees, no doubt the government will agree.

Edited September 25, 2013 by osdset