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Charged with S.5.3.a Reg Of Railways Act ** Resolved **

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Hi,

i am not going to go into too much detail on this thread,

i have been searching the internet for help etc but Transport Investigations are simply having none of it.

 

I have groveled, offered to pay admin fees, asked for an our of court settlement and i had a third letter to which they have re-asses my case

and they see no reason why it should not go to court.

 

I have sent another letter today, again groveling but this time i have offered them £350.00 as an out of court settlement and begged them to consider it.

If i am honest, i would be surprised if they even replied to this letter, as the next letter i am expecting is a court summons.

 

I would just like some information on the above offense if convicted for it, when does the offence become 'spent'?

What is the average overall fine for the offense?

It was my first time offense and i am gutted to say the least but it looks as though they will not budge.

 

Thanks for any help.

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I think it would help the forum guys to advise you if you tell us more about your case. As long as you leave out personal information, you should be fine.

 

The forum guys should be along later with advice for you, including about convictions.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi Honeybee,

in a nutshell i got caught with a child's ticket,

it was a stupid mistake for a one step fair.

 

I have honestly and genuinely learnt my lesson.

 

The thing that pains me the most is i was very honest with the RPI and he said he would allow me to pay an on the spot £20 fine,

but when waiting to do this (there must have been 30 odd people caught paying fines - it was actually carnage at the time)

another RPI came over and said no you are not paying it and took my details and a statement etc.

 

Like i said before, i have grovelled to my hearts content, but they are simply sticking to the standard template letters to the words of we may issue you with a summons etc,

and its for the S.5.3(a) one.

 

The latest letter i received pretty much read "We have fully evaluated your furthur comments and following re-assessment

we can find no reason to change the view expressed in our earlier letter, an issue for summons may now be made"

 

I have sent a new letter today special post again like all my letters have been,

with an offer of £350.00 to settle and begging them to re consider.

I cannot see what else i can possibly do other than to take it on the chin.

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so you boarded a train with a valid ticket

 

tell us the story please

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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is this the ONLY time you have done this

 

typically we don't recommend stating a figure you are wanting to settle on

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Sounds like the OP is a adult and boarded the train having knowingly brought a childrens ticket (probably to save a few £)

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is this the ONLY time you have done this

 

typically we don't recommend stating a figure you are wanting to settle on

 

dx

 

Yes but to be honest did not see what else i could do at this stage hence the reason for asking about the charge as i am now expecting it.

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Hi Honeybee,

in a nutshell i got caught with a child's ticket,

it was a stupid mistake for a one step fair.

 

I have honestly and genuinely learnt my lesson.

 

The thing that pains me the most is i was very honest with the RPI and he said he would allow me to pay an on the spot £20 fine,

but when waiting to do this (there must have been 30 odd people caught paying fines - it was actually carnage at the time)

another RPI came over and said no you are not paying it and took my details and a statement etc.

 

Like i said before, i have grovelled to my hearts content, but they are simply sticking to the standard template letters to the words of we may issue you with a summons etc,

and its for the S.5.3(a) one.

 

The latest letter i received pretty much read "We have fully evaluated your furthur comments and following re-assessment

we can find no reason to change the view expressed in our earlier letter, an issue for summons may now be made"

 

I have sent a new letter today special post again like all my letters have been,

with an offer of £350.00 to settle and begging them to re consider.

I cannot see what else i can possibly do other than to take it on the chin.

 

You can't make them not summons you. It appears from their response that they believe you deliberately selected a child's ticket you were not entitled to, and intended to avoid YOUR fare.

 

An RPI should only offer a Penalty Fare if they feel there was no deliberate fare evasion.

 

If they can show you deliberately had a child's ticket when you weren't entitled to a child's fare they will likely succeed with a 5.3 RRA 1889 prosecution.

 

Since you have to specifically select a child's ticket, if you are an adult you'll find it hard to explain having a child's ticket.

 

How did you come to have a child's ticket? Was the "mistake" in selecting the wrong ticket, or was the "mistake" trying it on thinking you'd get away with it?

 

If they seem set on a summons, if you are found (or plead) guilty the fine will depend on your income, and your plea (guilty plea attracting a lower fine)

For an adult : the criminal record becomes spent after 5 years, although in some jobs the post may be exempt from the Rehab of Offenders legislation - for the purpose of applying for those jobs any conviction will never be spent.

 

For the purposes of declaring for e.g. Visa free travel to e.g. The USA : it is the "need to declare" policy of that country, not the Rehab of Offenders policy of the UK that applies, so it is best to seek advice from their embassy rather than assuming a conviction is 'spent' for their purposes.

Edited by honeybee13

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Hi Honeybee,

in a nutshell i got caught with a child's ticket,

it was a stupid mistake for a one step fair.

 

I have honestly and genuinely learnt my lesson.

 

The thing that pains me the most is i was very honest with the RPI and he said he would allow me to pay an on the spot £20 fine,

but when waiting to do this (there must have been 30 odd people caught paying fines - it was actually carnage at the time)

another RPI came over and said no you are not paying it and took my details and a statement etc.

 

Like i said before, i have grovelled to my hearts content, but they are simply sticking to the standard template letters to the words of we may issue you with a summons etc,

and its for the S.5.3(a) one.

 

The latest letter i received pretty much read "We have fully evaluated your furthur comments and following re-assessment

we can find no reason to change the view expressed in our earlier letter, an issue for summons may now be made"

 

I have sent a new letter today special post again like all my letters have been,

with an offer of £350.00 to settle and begging them to re consider.

I cannot see what else i can possibly do other than to take it on the chin.

 

Take it on the chin then !

 

Out of interest how much was the child ticket you purchased ?

Edited by honeybee13

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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Hi,

i am not going to go into too much detail on this thread,

i have been searching the internet for help etc but Transport Investigations are simply having none of it.

 

I have groveled, offered to pay admin fees, asked for an our of court settlement and i had a third letter to which they have re-asses my case

and they see no reason why it should not go to court.

 

I have sent another letter today, again groveling but this time i have offered them £350.00 as an out of court settlement and begged them to consider it.

If i am honest, i would be surprised if they even replied to this letter, as the next letter i am expecting is a court summons.

 

I would just like some information on the above offense if convicted for it, when does the offence become 'spent'?

What is the average overall fine for the offense?

It was my first time offense and i am gutted to say the least but it looks as though they will not budge.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Hi,

 

If they take you to court and win, typically (depending on your means etc) you'll be looking at a fine of £400, a contribution to the company's costs (around £100 usually depending on the case), 10% victim surcharge (10% of the fine, so likely to be around £40. This goes to the Victims of Crime charity) and compensation (the fare avoided, in your case the difference in the fare avoided). Overall, a day in court could easily set you back £550. Not to mention this being recordable on the Police National Computer, so will show up on an Enhanced CRB or similar level of vetting. These offences are typically spent after 5-years, although certain job roles are exempt from the rehabilitation of offenders act etc. The maximum penalty for an offence under this legislation is £1,000 fine (plus all costs etc as above) and/or 3-months imprisonment for subsequent offences of the same nature. Don't panic though, you'll most certainly be looking at the average I mentioned. There's also a statutory 'discount' of a third if you plead guilty early, therefore would work out cheaper still. Obviously the record remains though.

 

Court fines are worked out from the national average weekly wage for these sorts of offences, hence why the fines seem quite specific. Given you're in a position to offer £350 out of court, I'm assuming your means aren't an issue? (In other words you're not a £1 a week payer of fines?).

 

Remember though, money talks, and you can offer to settle right up until and including the court date, so if they do issue a summons, I suggest taking your cheque book and asking to meet with the prosecutor before the case is heard...

 

Good Luck and don't do it again.

Edited by honeybee13

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Hi,

 

If they take you to court and win, typically (depending on your means etc) you'll be looking at a fine of £400, a contribution to the company's costs (around £100 usually depending on the case), 10% victim surcharge (10% of the fine, so likely to be around £40. This goes to the Victims of Crime charity) and compensation (the fare avoided, in your case the difference in the fare avoided). Overall, a day in court could easily set you back £550. Not to mention this being recordable on the Police National Computer, so will show up on an Enhanced CRB or similar level of vetting. These offences are typically spent after 5-years, although certain job roles are exempt from the rehabilitation of offenders act etc. The maximum penalty for an offence under this legislation is £1,000 fine (plus all costs etc as above) and/or 3-months imprisonment for subsequent offences of the same nature. Don't panic though, you'll most certainly be looking at the average I mentioned. There's also a statutory 'discount' of a third if you plead guilty early, therefore would work out cheaper still. Obviously the record remains though.

 

Court fines are worked out from the national average weekly wage for these sorts of offences, hence why the fines seem quite specific. Given you're in a position to offer £350 out of court, I'm assuming your means aren't an issue? (In other words you're not a £1 a week payer of fines?).

 

Remember though, money talks, and you can offer to settle right up until and including the court date, so if they do issue a summons, I suggest taking your cheque book and asking to meet with the prosecutor before the case is heard...

 

Good Luck and don't do it again.

 

thank you very much for the reply. do you actually think they will even reply to my letter today offering £350? to be honest i know it sounds over the top i would pay more than £350 if needed maybe i should have offered more.

Edited by honeybee13

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BCFC87

 

So out of interestlink3.gif how much was the child ticket you purchased ?

Edited by honeybee13

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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BCFC87

 

So out of interestlink3.gif how much was the child ticket you purchased ?

 

 

Is the question relevant, 45002 ?

Edited by honeybee13

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Hi,

 

If they take you to court and win, typically (depending on your means etc) you'll be looking at a fine of £400, a contribution to the company's costs (around £100 usually depending on the case), 10% victim surcharge (10% of the fine, so likely to be around £40. This goes to the Victims of Crime charity) and compensation (the fare avoided, in your case the difference in the fare avoided). Overall, a day in court could easily set you back £550. Not to mention this being recordable on the Police National Computer, so will show up on an Enhanced CRB or similar level of vetting. These offences are typically spent after 5-yeairs, although certain job roles are exempt from the rehabilitation of offenders act etc. The maximum penalty for an offence under this legislation is £1,000 fine (plus all costs etc as above) and/or 3-months imprisonment for subsequent offences of the same nature. Don't panic though, you'll most certainly be looking at the average I mentioned. There's also a statutory 'discount' of a third if you plead guilty early, therefore would work out cheaper still. Obviously the record remains though.

 

Court fines are worked out from the national average weekly wage for these sorts of offences, hence why the fines seem quite specific. Given you're in a position to offer £350 out of court, I'm assuming your means aren't an issue? (In other words you're not a £1 a week payer of fines?).

 

Remember though, money talks, and you can offer to settle right up until and including the court date, so if they do issue a summons, I suggest taking your cheque book and asking to meet with the prosecutor before the case is heard...

 

Good Luck and don't do it again.

 

Also when you say meet with the proecutor how is this possible? I cant see why they would rather not settle out of court :(

 

And im not even sure on the fare it was not much put it like that!

Edited by honeybee13

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thank you very much for the reply. do you actually think they will even reply to my letter today offering £350? to be honest i know it sounds over the top i would pay more than £350 if needed maybe i should have offered more.

Obviously I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine they'd do you the curtesy of another reply. £350 is very a very attractive offer, assuming it's a clear-cut case, although they're not under any obligation to accept your offer. If they don't accept this offer, I'm not sure it would be worth offering a higher amount. I would certainly try on the day though, afterall, it can't do any harm!

 

The company's Prosecutor will most likely want to meet with you on the day if you turn up. If not, they'll be there so you can always approach them.

Edited by honeybee13

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If i plead guilty (which i will) but still go to court, what difference is this to pleading guilty but not attending? thanks again for your reply. It was a silly mistake that i can honestly say i will never do again, we all live and learn dont we. Thank you

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Is the question relevant, 45002 ?

 

Yes,I think so as someone who myself who spends approximate £1000 on the correct rail fares and yes I do know far more people pay more than me in a year...

 

Be interesting to compare the price of the ticket,to the price of a fine is if that was to be the end result ?

 

BCFC87

 

So out of interestlink3.gif how much was the child ticket you purchased ?

Edited by honeybee13

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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thank you very much for the reply. do you actually think they will even reply to my letter today offering £350? to be honest i know it sounds over the top i would pay more than £350 if needed maybe i should have offered more.

 

You can always try : however they might consider it as an attempt to "buy yourself out of a prosecution".

They may decide that they want to show it isn't about how much money they can extract from offenders, and that it isn't "one rule for the rich, one for the poor".

 

The correct time to expend money is buying an adult ticket, not a child's ticket.

If you can offer them more than £350 now, why on earth didn't you just buy an adult ticket?.

Edited by honeybee13

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You can always try : however they might consider it as an attempt to "buy yourself out of a prosecution".

They may decide that they want to show it isn't about how much money they can extract from offenders, and that it isn't "one rule for the rich, one for the poor".

 

The correct time to expend money is buying an adult ticket, not a child's ticket.

If you can offer them more than £350 now, why on earth didn't you just buy an adult ticket?.

 

like i said,

it was a silly stupid mistake and

 

without putting the blame on anyone else it was a friend who got the tickets from the machine,

its my fault for not changing the ticket.

 

I actually travel on the trains alot every year for football away games,

i also use to travel every single day of the week and i have ALWAYS paid the correct fare.

 

I am not saying i dont deserve to get away without a prosecution

however i do find it very harsh given its my first ever offence on the trains

and i am actually a very genuine hard working person.

 

i am certainly not rich and £350 is ALOT of money to me, but i would rather pay £1000 than have a criminal record on my file.

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did you know it was a child ticket before you got caught

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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If i plead guilty (which i will) but still go to court, what difference is this to pleading guilty but not attending? thanks again for your reply. It was a silly mistake that i can honestly say i will never do again, we all live and learn dont we. Thank you

It doesn't really make a difference, however it will look better on your part as it shows you're serious about this matter and are genuinely sorry. Also, it'll be nice to have a last attempt to settle if you so wish.

 

dx raises a good question, although it's increasingly more difficult to buy a Child rate ticket by mistake these days, if for example somebody bought it for you (parent etc), it could act as a defence, as you can say you didn't intend to avoid any payment. I think you probably answered all the questions put to you to the contrary though...

Edited by honeybee13

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It doesn't really make a difference, however it will look better on your part as it shows you're serious about this matter and are genuinely sorry. Also, it'll be nice to have a last attempt to settle if you so wish.

 

dx raises a good question, although it's increasingly more difficult to buy a Child rate ticket by mistake these days, if for example somebody bought it for you (parent etc), it could act as a defence, as you can say you didn't intend to avoid any payment. I think you probably answered all the questions put to you to the contrary though...

Thank you, i thought attending court may mean more costs, but if not i do actually think i would attend in this case to meet them and like you say try and settle with out the need for court, saying that, if they dont accept £350 i dont think there is much chance of them accepting anything really.

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Thank you, i thought attending court may mean more costs, but if not i do actually think i would attend in this case to meet them and like you say try and settle with out the need for court, saying that, if they dont accept £350 i dont think there is much chance of them accepting anything really.
You're welcome. Nope, the costs won't change. They'd only vary immencely if you pleaded not guilty and their witness(s) were summonsed or it was a complex case with CCTV being pulled etc. Your case seems quite straight forward. Edited by honeybee13

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You're welcome. Nope, the costs won't change. They'd only vary immencely if you pleaded not guilty and their witness(s) were summonsed or it was a complex case with CCTV being pulled etc. Your case seems quite straight forward.

Do you know much about the conviction with regards to entering the USA? Was hoping to go next year :( another worry i now have. Been reading though there are exceptions to their moral turpitude question something along the line of if the conviction doesnt carry a max prison sentance of 1 year?

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Do you know much about the conviction with regards to entering the USA? Was hoping to go next year :( another worry i now have. Been reading though there are exceptions to their moral turpitude question something along the line of if the conviction doesnt carry a max prison sentance of 1 year?

 

If you have ANY conviction, you can't travel on the Visa Waiver Program.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#compliance

"When Should I apply for a visa instead of using the VWP?"

"Has a criminal record"

 

For a minor conviction you'll likely be issued a visa, but you can't travel without the visa.

Edited by honeybee13

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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2512 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you
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