Travelodge smoking fine

[pilkers]

A few weeks back I got kicked out

(and my friend from a different room because he tried to smuggle me in his room and they found me)

for smoking in the room.

 

I admit that we smoked out of the window, it was lazy and stupid of us not to go downstairs and go outside.

 

However I was shocked that the duty manager gave us no warning whatsoever,

we were instantly "evicted" (he loved using that word!).

 

I didn't want to cause trouble so we left and tried to check into a hotel down the road.

 

However all hotels in the city were booked up due to major events,

the only thing available was for £141 in the centre of town but as it was already 4-4.30 am we felt it wasn't worth it.

 

we killed time until 6.30am when our friends (in another different room)

who had a vehicle were contacted and then we chilled in a friend's car until they were ready to drive home at about 9am.

 

Humiliatingly we actually tried to get some sleep on park benches near the hotel, in an area which isn't particularly safe.

 

I thought it was out of order that we weren't given a chance by way of warning.

If we had received a warning then we would have instantly switched and gone outside for a fag.

 

I apologised, pleaded for leniance and even offered to buy another room.

However the duty manager insisted that it was not his decision but that it came from Head Office

(someone must have told head Office..?) and threatened to call the police if we didn't leave.

 

I asked if they will try to levy further costs and he said Head Office may try to charge £150 for cleaning of the room.

Again it was "not his decision, but Head Office will decide".

 

I cancelled my credit card.

 

About 2 weeks later after no further contact from Travelodge,

 

I received a letter from CRS dated 13 Aug 2013 making a claim for£150,

otherwise I have to explain within 10 days (not sure if working days..?) if I wish to dispute.

 

I'm not sure what to do.

 

I have read many other threads online, many which are people incensed because they didn't smoke,

whereas I admitted it and got "evicted".

 

At the time they said they had CCTV evidence but we never saw it.

I'm not sure if he was bluffing or not.

 

Also I feel it unreasonable to ask for £150, how can they justify that size of cost?

 

So I have some choices/questions

1. Pay it and split with my friends (who incidentally are saying to me that I should ask for evidence,

easy to say when it is not in their name!!)

2. Ask for evidence.

They might have been bluffing by saying that they have CCTV footage.

I've seen other threads where the evidence provided has been photographs that don't necessarily link it

to the individual circumstance.

 

My concern here is whether they somehow provide evidence (CCTV) that we admitted it

and left the hotel and then subsequently increase the claim.

Can they do that?

 

3. Tell them to justify £150 as it seems extortionate.

 

4. Ignore it because Travelodge themselves have not contacted me about it, other than on the night itself

(I saw another thread that suggested this route, although the difference there was the guest denied smoking, whereas I did not).

 

Clearly as soon as I make any contact then they have a lead from which they can pursue me.

 

5. Can I claim that the hotel have breached their duty of care towards me by making me sleep rough.?

Surely that was punishment enough, a further claim for £150 seems excessive.

 

6. If it doesn't specify then does 10 days mean 10 calendar days? Or it generally accepted that it is 10 working days?

 

The main thing I am worried about is having a black mark on my name in terms of credit checks and so on.

 

Which is obviously the fear that these people prey on. But do I have a case if I admitted it and left the hotel?

 

Help !

[citizenB]

the only thing that concerns me here is that they say they have CCTV footage of you smoking in a hotel room ! I wonder if people know there is CCTV in hotel rooms !!

 

Ask to see the footage - I doubt they would go to court, but if they were to litigate they would have to provide that as evidence !

[pilkers]

To be fair I think it was CCTV in the corridors where said they saw someone coming in/out of my friend's room when they subsequently found me in his room. We don't think this is correct and in hindsight I think that was their so called justification for evicting people in the second room, although they have only (only!) charged 1 lot of £150.

 

In terms of my room, one of the staff witnessed me hanging out the window smoking, and the guy said that smoke could be smelt on the landing.

 

What do you think?

[citizenB]

TBH, I think you have admitted smoking in a room that you shouldn't even have been in. That is not a judgmental statement BTW, just stating facts provided by you.

 

IMHO, whilst I disagree with the way this company goes about issuing these speculative invoices - in your case, it is isn't speculative. Perhaps you should pay it and move on.

[lookinforinfo]

Here is no 5 of Travelodge's T&Cs-

You must not smoke in any of our hotels or interfere with our fire detection system. If you do so we will terminate your booking. We may either (at our sole discretion) request the immediate re-payment of our costs during your stay or instruct a third party to contact you after your stay to recover our costs. The costs we incur if you smoke in our hotel include costs for specialist cleaning, repair or replacement of damage by you to our property, the cost of the room for any period it is unusable and our administration expenses.

 

So it is quite clear that they will terminate your booking and charge you to remove the cigarette smell etc.

 

It does appear to be a set charge of £150 regardless whether you were smoking in the room or out of the window. So there may be room for manoeuvre on that score. Whether CRS have the right to take you

to Court will depend on the agreement between them and Travelodge.

 

It is a salutary lesson to read T&Cs of companies especially as you knew anyway that smoking was not allowed in your room. It might strengthen your case if there were no signs about no smoking in the hotel or

if there were, there was no indication of the penalties for ignoring their rules. It may depend on what information and where that information is available as to how successful your dispute with them will be.

[Lillibelle]

I stay in hotels/inns/lodges a lot...and all of them are non smoking..all clearly signed . I think you should pay up and make it a lesson learned,you certainly don't want it affecting your credit rating.

(oh,,and yes,,I smoke).

[pilkers]

re message from Citizen B. I've confused you with my narrative, it was my own room I was smoking out of the window in, my friends were in and out of my room to the point when I got evicted. After that my friend tried to smuggle me into his room, but eventually they knocked on that door too cos they knew I hadn't left the hotel and they said they knew I was in there.

 

I hear what you're saying.

[Grotesque]

Unfortunately you HAD already been warned, so they would be unlikely to warn you twice!

[dx100uk]

pers i'd just forget about it and ignore the threat-o-grams

 

none of these speculative invoice smoking claims

have ever gone to court

 

admitted or otherwise

 

I have moved to the dedicated forum

 

lots to read here on this issue

 

dx

[pilkers]

Unfortunately you HAD already been warned, so they would be unlikely to warn you twice!

 

I wasn't warned at all, they just knocked on the door and told me I was evicted.

[Grotesque]

Sorry, I meant the blurb in small font on the bit of paper on the desk (and / or the 'No Smoking' sign on the door) constitute the warning; effectively you (we) are warned the moment we accept the T&C's.

 

Cheers!

[ScarletPimpernel]

The amount charged appears to be an unenforceable penalty; it doesn't cost £150 to clean a room in which someone has smoked a cigarette out of the window. I say appears to be because the civil recovery clowns have, as usual, failed to provide a breakdown of the costs. It could be argued that cleaning the room is part and parcel of the chambermaid's job anyway (the parallel is with store security), and thus is an overhead.

 

As with shoplifting, CRS cannot take anyone to court, and we aren't aware of Travelodge ever doing so in a smoking case. It is probably therefore safe to give CRS's begging letters a damn good ignoring.

 

None of this, of course, excuses your behaviour.

[stokie63]

pilkers do not pay the fine the same thing happened to me in feb this year they accused me of smoking in the room they have no evidence whatsoever to back up their claim after a few emails back and forth i said to them take me court and guess what i havent heard anything else from them and i let you into a little secret yes i did smoke in the room like you had my head out of the window.

[honeybee13]

pilkers do not pay the fine the same thing happened to me in feb this year they accused me of smoking in the room they have no evidence whatsoever to back up their claim after a few emails back and forth i said to them take me court and guess what i havent heard anything else from them and i let you into a little secret yes i did smoke in the room like you had my head out of the window.

 

Hello there.

 

As has been mentioned in the post above yours, CAG does not condone trying to flout the rules. Could you not have gone outside the hotel to smoke?

 

HB

[san_d]

It's standard procedure to evict guests caught smoking without warning. Sorry, you have no case.I wish this rule was enforced more often. I slept in cheap B&B's where the owners didn't care/

[pilkers]

pilkers do not pay the fine the same thing happened to me in feb this year they accused me of smoking in the room they have no evidence whatsoever to back up their claim after a few emails back and forth i said to them take me court and guess what i havent heard anything else from them and i let you into a little secret yes i did smoke in the room like you had my head out of the window.

 

I contacted a friend of mine who recently started working at TL and already he knew all about the £150 smoking thing. Initially he said that TL are looking to improve their image so if I contacted TL customer services they may back down. I did this and basically asked them to respectfully reconsider seeing as I was evicted, had to sleep rough, and felt like I was punished already. They simply said that CRS deals with disputes so I should contact them.

 

Separately I asked CRS to provide evidence and they have provided 2 photos which I do actually believe are genuine. 1 photo shows a small plastic lid from a tub (which was mine) and that was used as an ash tray, the photos shows remnants of ash. The 2nd photo is of the window ledge which shows small black marks which I guess must be small amounts of ash.

 

Also in the letter with the photos, CRS emphasised that I should talk to them and not TL (no doubt TL told them that I made contact). They also recounted the story that I did not leave the hotel when originally asked and that I went into a different room (see original post in this thread).

 

Basically I don't know if I should continue to argue. I feel that £150 is extortionate in terms of cleaning a few bits of ash. The only thing they could argue is that they lost a whole night's charge because they "had to" leave that room vacant for the following evening. In which case their damages would get close to £150. But could I ask them to prove that they had a wasted room & that the cost is supported...?

 

My concern is that if I contest these details (even if I am polite and respectful) then they may start to increase the claim due to interest, their involvement etc etc. With all the sh*t in my life at the moment I don't know if I want the aggro, particularly as I can split the cost 3 ways with 2 mates who were in and out of my room and £50 each isn't the end of the world. But at the same time of course, I don't want to be a soft touch for them.....

 

Really undecided as you can tell..!!

[ScarletPimpernel]

It seems to me that this comes down to a matter of moral courage.

[stokie63]

I contacted a friend of mine who recently started working at TL and already he knew all about the £150 smoking thing. Initially he said that TL are looking to improve their image so if I contacted TL customer services they may back down. I did this and basically asked them to respectfully reconsider seeing as I was evicted, had to sleep rough, and felt like I was punished already. They simply said that CRS deals with disputes so I should contact them.

 

Separately I asked CRS to provide evidence and they have provided 2 photos which I do actually believe are genuine. 1 photo shows a small plastic lid from a tub (which was mine) and that was used as an ash tray, the photos shows remnants of ash. The 2nd photo is of the window ledge which shows small black marks which I guess must be small amounts of ash.

 

Also in the letter with the photos, CRS emphasised that I should talk to them and not TL (no doubt TL told them that I made contact). They also recounted the story that I did not leave the hotel when originally asked and that I went into a different room (see original post in this thread).

 

I don't know if I should continue to argue. I feel that £150 is extortionate in terms of cleaning a few bits of ash. The only thing they could argue is that they lost a whole night's charge because they "had to" leave that room vacant for the following evening. In which case their damages would get close to £150. But could I ask them to prove that they had a wasted room & that the cost is supported...?

 

My concern is that if I contest these details (even if I am polite and respectful) then they may start to increase the claim due to interest, their involvement etc etc. With all the sh*t in my life at the moment I don't know if I want the aggro, particularly as I can split the cost 3 ways with 2 mates who were in and out of my room and £50 each isn't the end of the world. But at the same time of course, I don't want to be a soft touch for them.....

 

Really undecided as you can tell..!!

 

like i said pilkers they sent me foto evidence and 2 witness statements by cleaners,

and told me that if i lost in court i would have to pay expenses

 

i told them the same that if they didnt prove their case in court me and my 2 witnesses would claim all our expences occured on that day,

the fotos have no time date or room number on them do you realy belive a judge would accept them in a court of law?

 

if they were that bothered they would have sent the claim by recorded post whos to say you,ve even recieved the claim from them,

 

they told me to seek legal advice, i told them i had he was the watchdog lawyer who said dont pay it,

they are just trying to bully you

 

as of yet since my last email to them telling them to take me court back in feb i havent heard a dicky bird

 

but let me make it clear ive learnt my lesson and wont do it again.