employment tribunal october. shall I hire a solicitor ***SETTLED OUT OF COURT***

[stuckinarut11]

I have an ET coming up in october. I have exchanaged documents and witness statements are being exchanged next week.

 

The claims I have submitted are

 

Equal pay

Sexual orientation discrimination

Victimiaation and harrasment (equality act)

 

I have done all this alone until now and the tribunal has set a 3 day hearing. Im up against a large national company who have has solicitors from day one.

 

I have today had a meeting with solicitor who has accepted my case on a no win no fee charges at 35% plus vat.

 

Im not sure if I have the confidence to represent myself in the tribunal. Whats it like?? Would you advise taking on the solicitor. Just for final hearing at such a high rate. I cant afford a solicitor unless its no win no fee

 

Thanks in advance for advice guys

[Ocelot0411]

Tribunals tend to be pretty informal and they are designed to enable people to represent themselves. That said obviously a solicitor is better placed than a layman to present a case at a tribunal. In short it would depend how high the stakes are. If you think its worth a substantial amount of money then no win no fee might be the way to go, but if your claim is fairly modest then I think you could do it yourself.

[stuckinarut11]

Whats put me off is I was informed in case management thats because there is a discrimination claim the final hearing will be infront of a full panel of three judges

[SweetLorraine]

Hi stuckinarut11,

 

a tribunal panel is usually made up of three judges anyway - so don't worry about that.

 

Tribunals tend to be pretty informal? They are formal hearings with potentially serious consequences! Please don't go into the full hearing thinking you are going to have the same sort of chat you had at the CMD.

[Sidewinder]

Completely agree with the post above. In a full hearing the stakes are higher and the pressure much greater as what is said will all be noted by the Judge - and by the Respondent's representatives.

 

Whether you are represented or not should depend on the strength of your case, the quality of evidence that you are able to demonstrate, your skill at cross examining the Respondent on the witness evidence that they have presented, and your ability to stand up under similar questioning. Above all your level of confidence and ability to meet any cost of representation should be the deciding factors.

 

It is possible to represent yourself and the Tribunal will allow a certain leeway to a self representing claimant in terms of explaining procedures, an understanding that you are not legally trained etc, but this will not automatically give you advantage. Nor will it turn a weak case into a winnable one without an awful lot of work and a case which clearly sets out your issues and how they relate to specific pieces legislation.

 

It isn't three Judges that you will be facing - the panel will be made up of a Judge, and non-legal panel members who provide a perspective from an employer's and an employee's background.

[becky2585]

Discrimination claims are always heard by a panel of three, so are other lengthy or complex claims. They are lay members, but their majority could still over rule the judge. It's in your best interests to have a panel, it's nothing to worry about

 

I would get a fixed fee quote from another solicitor though - the reason being our firm would take a NWNF case at 35% including VAT from the start, which would mean far more work for your money, so 35% plus VAT just to do the hearing sounds a little steep, unless the claim is low value. A fixed fee may work out cheaper depending on your claims value.

[Ocelot0411]

Sweet Lorraine - its all relative, I mean informal in comparison to county court, I am not suggesting its a chat over coffee.

[SweetLorraine]

Sweet Lorraine - its all relative, I mean informal in comparison to county court, I am not suggesting its a chat over coffee.

 

Yes, indeed I did realise that was what you meant Ocelot0411. I assumed that stuckinarut11 is someone coming fresh to the process. It can be a seductive notion for any newbie (it was for me) that it is a fairly informal hearing. I had a sharp, rude awakening once the process got going.

 

Perhaps we could suggest that stuckinarut11 gets along to see a full ET hearing in process down at the local Tribunal offices. They are open to the public, you can sit at the back and see how things are done. 10am start usually. Just have a word with the court staff and pick a case to watch. That might give you an idea as to how a hearing is conducted and how you might cope.

 

You may have still have the option of requesting a judicial mediation hearing which is more informal than a full hearing.

[stuckinarut11]

Yes, indeed I did realise that was what you meant Ocelot0411. I assumed that stuckinarut11 is someone coming fresh to the process. It can be a seductive notion for any newbie (it was for me) that it is a fairly informal hearing. I had a sharp, rude awakening once the process got going.

 

Perhaps we could suggest that stuckinarut11 gets along to see a full ET hearing in process down at the local Tribunal offices. They are open to the public, you can sit at the back and see how things are done. 10am start usually. Just have a word with the court staff and pick a case to watch. That might give you an idea as to how a hearing is conducted and how you might cope.

 

You may have still have the option of requesting a judicial mediation hearing which is more informal than a full hearing.

 

Many thanks for your advice. I am new to this process.

 

Could you spare a few moments to tell me how your experience went that you mention and also judical mediation hearing how does this differ to full hearing are full awards still made.

I will look into visiting another case but live in a rather rural area and neareat office is over 70 mile for thos reason my tribunal has been booked into a county court local to me civic centre as I raised concerns with the distance to travel.

[SweetLorraine]

Hi stuckinarut11,

 

I had a very bumpy ride and failed to get the claim to a full hearing. I had a lot of problems with the respondent's solicitors pulling a number of stunts before we got to exchange witness statements, especially around what went into the bundle. Nightmare!

 

But I see you have got passed those stages (well done). I have tried to help one or two ex-colleagues when they submitted claims.

 

It is correct to say you get some leeway - but the panel will not carry you through the whole process.

 

As for judicial mediation, here is a link to an explanation.

 

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/advice/practice-notes/judicial-mediation/

 

It may be something you may wish to consider - perhaps you should take some advise from a legal professional as to whether it is a suitable forum for you to get an agreement and see what you feel about it all.

[stuckinarut11]

Have just read up on this and it seems something I wish to consider although I am concerned that we are to close to the full merits hearing for this mediation now.

 

I have exchanged documents, bundle is being prepared as of yet witness statements not been exchanged but as stated its rather soon. Although I will ensure I have a proof draft copy of bundle before disclosing my statements.

 

My main concern with a full merits hearing and self representation is I have asperger syndrome, I refuse to disclose this to anyone as I refuse to be labelled I have learnt to deal with everyday situations. The paperwork has been no issue to me but the social aspect of representing myself I wont be able to do. Im at my wits end I cant afford a solicitor outright so nwnf is my only option.

 

My employer the tribunal or anyone is unaware of my diagnosis and it will stay that way so asking for adjustments on grounds of disability will not be an option.

 

I had no problem with the old manager but I have been totally misunderstood and targeted this time round.

[dj1971]

Stuckinarut11,

 

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on having successfully taken your case this far. I went through that process alone and understand some of what you will have been through, although my case never did go all the way to the full merits hearing as we reached a final settlement through ACAS. I assume they are involved in your case as well?

 

Personally I found it all too much to take on the full merits hearing on my own so decided to instruct a barrister through the direct access scheme and I strongly recommend you look into this as another potential option. Normally as a member of the public we cannot instruct a barrister directly and must instruct a solicitor who will in turn instruct a barrister if deemed necessary. Unfortunately though this does mean that you have to pay the solicitor and barrister fees, the bulk of which will be solicitor fees in my limited experience.

 

Direct access barristers are specially trained in order to allow them to take instruction directly from a member of the public, therefore vastly reducing the cost. However it is not every case that is suitable or can be instructed under the direct access scheme. There is some really good information on the direct access scheme on the bar council's website including a directory of direct access trained barristers. Check out

 

http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/about-the-bar/about-barristers

 

Personally I had a fantastic experience of the scheme and found a brilliant barrister who could not do enough to help and was very conscious of my limited funds. Many direct access barristers will not charge for an initial meeting to look at the case and at least give you a legal opinion on the merits of the case, mine did.

 

In terms of judicial mediation v full merits hearing as you have already pointed out your case including a claim for discrimination will be heard by a full panel of 3. However judicial mediation is much less formal and will be heard in front of a specially trained judge sitting alone. As far as I am aware the judicial mediation is closed and therefore members of the public or press cannot be in the room, though one of the legally trained caggers can clarify that. It is not every case that is considered suitable for judicial mediation and must be agreed to by both parties. In my case I agreed to it but the respondent declined.

 

It was recommended to me to buy the book Employment Tribunal Claims Tactics and Precedents by Naomi Cunningham. I found it a very good book for understanding the process of a employment tribunal including the different hearings and what to expect. If you do decide to represent yourself I recommend this book as a very good read explaining the process in plain lay mans English.

 

Although my case did not go all the way to a full merits hearing, in my humble opinion a lot depends on what judge you get on the day. I attended 3 case management discussions without representation and 1 pre hearing review with representation for that hearing only and the level of "leway" the judge was prepared to give varied greatly.

 

Many have and do successfully represent themselves at full merits hearings. In my opinion it comes down to how good you are at cross examining witnesses and how much knowledge you have of key relevant case history. The Naomi Campbell book will give you key relevant case info and give you some tips on cross examining witnesses and how to prepare.

 

However my suggestion would be to check out the possibility of instructing a barrister under the direct access scheme. Worst case scenario you meet with a barrister and they give the opinion your case is very unlikely to succeed and will cost £x for them to provide representation. You have spent £0 a couple of hours meeting the barrister and now have a legal opinion on the merits of the case.

 

Most important of all is to keep in contact on the forum here. There are many caggers who have been through the process themselves and will be only too happy to help where they can.

 

Best of luck

DJ

[stuckinarut11]

Many thanks dj1971 will follow your advice up first thing tomorrow.

 

As for acas they were told by respondests solicitor to butt out right from the start.

 

Please dont think I want the easy options but they would have been ideal for myself eg acas finalize im not doing this for money. I want an apology have asked six times and never received. I was accused and suspended for a serious criminal offence. Had investigation which went to disciplinary. There the criminal charge was dropped. I have been accused of a thurther criminal offemce which was a misdoing and upon appeal got this dropped as they couldnt prove motive was there as there was no motive.

 

Once thing I am considers in a freedom of information on the number of people with registered disabilities they employ there are a plc company so not sure if freedom of information is the right way to go about this.

 

All along I have guided them as to my condition but refuse to give it to them on a plate. I have sleeping tablets they have seen them, I have anti depresents they have seen them, I have sedatives they have seen them. I also have knock out emergency pills for when I go temper out of control, never happened and no aggressivness ever been picked up on in work. I personally through maturity control any outburts. Although none of this medication has ever cause me to take a day off work as working is mu routine and my days are planned evening before

[stuckinarut11]

Surely first protocols after seeing boxes of medication stating "do not drive or operate machinery" Would have been a visit to occu health yet im still waiting

[Emmzzi]

Surely first protocols after seeing boxes of medication stating "do not drive or operate machinery" Would have been a visit to occu health yet im still waiting

 

Surely the first thing for you to have done would be to REQUEST a visit to occ health?

 

Similarly if you have been treated poorly because of lack of adjustment for a condition you have deliberatley withheld from your employer - that's not going to be a option either.

 

This sounds like you have hidden a lot of information during your employment.

 

I do suggest talking to a solicitor, to gain advice on the strength of you case. From the two non specific posts about your case, it already sounds weak to me, and I don't know ANY of the details!!!

 

Get some professional advice.

[Emmzzi]

deleted as I can't think of a polite way to phrase it!! Sorry

Edited August 21, 2013 by Emmzzi

[Ocelot0411]

SweetLorraine - no problem at all, I do appreciate what you are saying and going along to a tribunal to have a look at the process before your own hearing is sterling advice which I would second.

[SweetLorraine]

Hi stuckinarut11,

 

great fulsome post from dj1971.

 

The book dj1971 is really useful. It has an accompanying website etclaims.co.uk which has some useful updates. If you can't afford the book it might be worth checking out your local library (for the latest 3rd edition).

 

The direct access barrister scheme is interesting - I never knew about that, I wish I had before now. It might be the 'golden nugget' piece of advice you need.

[dj1971]

Hi stuckinarut11,

 

Glad to hear you have decided to look into the direct access scheme, as I think it really is your best option.

 

What would be really useful is if you could give us an outline of your case, removing all personal details eg. names that might help to identify you. Don't need to go into every last detail, just a summary of what happened and how you ended up submitting an ET1 to the employment tribunal. This would help fellow caggers to assist and advise you on your case and appropriate courses of action.

 

I must say I agree with Emmzi and share her concerns about your comments in your post no.14 and giving an outline of your case might help to alleviate those fears. As I said, fellow caggers can only offer help and suggestions based on the information they have available and in your case this is very little.

 

Having said that, the solicitor who has agreed to take your case on on a no win no fee basis will have reviewed the available evidence and made an assessment on the likelyhood of winning the case and at this late stage I imagine there would have to be a very high likelihood of success for them to agree to take it on on this basis. Remember you pay no fees upfront and if you lose the case the solicitor does not get paid a penny. No way they would take on your case if they did not believe you had a high chance of winning a reasonable sum of compensation. Has the solicitor offered you a legal opinion on the likelihood of success?

 

For now lets see what comes out of your investigations into the direct access scheme. I am keen to hear what you find out, so please do update us.

 

Of course feel free to ask any questions you have or share any concerns and there will be someone who can help I'm sure.

 

 

Best Wishes

DJ

[dj1971]

Ps.. Thank you for the feedback Sweet Lorraine, very nice of you.

 

The direct access scheme seems to be a trade secret or something. I only happened to come across it while I was spending what seemed like endless hours researching online for suitable representation. I imagine solicitors do not publicise the existence of this scheme because it cuts them out of the loop altogether.

 

DJ

[Grotesque]

 

Once thing I am considers in a freedom of information on the number of people with registered disabilities they employ there are a plc company so not sure if freedom of information is the right way to go about this.

 

Only public bodies subject to FOI, unless holding information on behalf of public bodies. Best of British!

[Pusillanimous]

Careful with the no win no fee contingency fee lawyers. They will often pressurise you into accepting a settlement you might consider too low. They are often too lazy to do any real work on your case, so only use if you want a quick settlement. Avoid if you want a hearing. If they are eager to take on your case, you probably could win it without their help (think of the claims companies who offer to take on PPI claims). 42 % of your settlement goes to them, which is a large wack and it doesn't always include the barrister's costs, which might be limited to save their costs. (35% + VAT = 42%!)

 

Try to get a direct access barrister from the outset. It means you will have to do all your own photocopying and paperwork though.

 

Also, there is no harm asking the CAB or the law colleges in your area for help.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Pusillanimous

[dj1971]

Grotesque is correct. FOI only applies to public bodies.

 

The correct legislation to use is a Subject Access Request. This gives anyone the right to receive copies of certain information a company holds about them. Just address a letter to the data controller of the company and include a cheque/postal order for £10 to cover their administration costs. They must provide the information within 6 weeks.

 

Stay strong.

DJ

[stuckinarut11]

UPDATE

 

Sorry have not been online to respond as had another meeting with solicitors today so wanted to come back with positives on the great advice given.

 

Firstly with regards to the direct access scheme, I searched and there were 2 local firms. Contacted them both and they were unavailable on the dates required although it was a quick process both firms emailed a direct access form to me to ill out and return and they were both acknowledged and addressed.

 

I had a further meeting today with the solicitors firm I consulted last week. Today I met the senior employment solicitor and the solicitor I met the other day. We had an in depth look at all the paperwork and they are now acting on my behalf and have notified the company and there representatives today.

 

I have managed to negotiate the no win no fee settlement down to 20% inclusive of vat, As I stated today all the background work been done all I require is for you to familiarise yourself with the facts and represent me. Although we are exploring another option through legal assistance on home insurance, spoke to insurance today and filled out the legal form and they are accessing the case and will come back with an amount for legal fees if they accept the claim. Tomorrow I will now for definite but 1st choice is legal cover on home insurance and if for any reason that fails were going with the 20% no win no fee.

 

It has been decided that any undisclosed health conditions are not going to be disclosed as apparently the case is strong enough without it, Solicitors words not mine, I have also been informed that the ET3 is pathetic and does not refer to my claims but states the company's policies. They are vigorously defending the claims but have not presented any evidence to support there defence.

 

Without saying to much and being to specific as the specifics of claim will instantly identify me should the company be online and I already am aware they have one of them automated web searches, The claim came about after "whistleblowing" which resulted in disciplinary action for some staff. Rightfully so.

 

Also it has been granted thorough the employment judge that covert video recording can be used as evidence, this adds so much strength to my claims.

 

The solicitor I met today also pointed out that the judge in my case was a regional employment judge and apparently its unusual for him to take on a full case he usually just directs.

 

We are also going to raise objections to some of there witnesses as they are calling over ten, some being note takers from meetings, the solicitor recons the meeting chair is ample and its a further intimidation tactic.

 

Although I have been advised to take a step back and then purely for the solicitor write every event that cause me distress or upset and then that gives him a basics for the argument in the court.

 

I thank you all for your advice and posting on here opened so many other avenues for me which has led me to negotiate good deals on representation.

 

Although the tribunal and respondents in claim have been notified of me instructing solicitors to represent me, we decided no further action will be taken now until Wednesday from solicitor as he believes there's a 50/50 chance they will try and settle now there aware that I have a legal team behind me and representing me, also doing the cross examining.

 

Lets see What happens if anything tomorrow and Tuesday baring in mind the bank holiday

[Emmzzi]

think it is wise to drop the disability related aspects. Sounds like you made good progress!