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T-Mobile still trashing my credit file - Court Only Action to stop them now


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Hi all, Need some help regarding tmobile trashing my credit file for the past 5/6 months now.

 

I did make a complaint to CISAS but have just received a letter today claiming my complaint is outside the time frame for them, load of boll*** if you ask me, I never even heard of CISAS until this year so how could I make a complaint to them before that time.

 

Anyway long story, short version here.

 

T-mobile cut my phone off onto incoming calls only and this goes against the terms and conditions of the contract since I had written to them explaining my dispute and how much I would be paying and how much I would be with holding.

 

These clauses are in the terms and conditions and I was so fed up that day when I needed to make some calls I cancelled the contract due to t-mobiles breach of there own terms and conditions.

If they (t-mobile)have the right to immediately cancel the contract for a breach of the terms and conditions then so do I and that is what I did.

 

Now t-mobile have been trashing my credit file with late payment markers, currently at 5 late payment markers now (August2013).

I also lost out on a new contract phone from Three (HTC ONE) due to these markers coming onto my cca file, I have proof of this loss.

 

I have now had enough, I want to take T-Mobile to court and make them pay for the damage to my credit worth and get the late payment markers removed.

 

I am pretty good at writing letters but so unsure on how to word the POC for this claim and even what I am claiming for, default removal with damages to credit worth.

 

Any help or advice will be gratefully received.

 

Regards

 

George

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These clauses are in the terms and conditions and I was so fed up that day when I needed to make some calls I cancelled the contract due to t-mobiles breach of there own terms and conditions.

If they (t-mobile)have the right to immediately cancel the contract for a breach of the terms and conditions then so do I and that is what I did.

 

 

George

 

I'm not sure that "because T-mobile can cut me off for mon-payment, I can void the contract if I can't make calls" holds.

 

Otherwise, all anyone need do to get a free phone is take out a contract, miss a payment, get their service suspended, and say "my contract is now void, thanks for the free new phone"

 

What do the T 's and C's actually say?.

 

Usual advice is to continue paying, and demand a refund : if they don't give a refund them send them a letter before action. This is advisable precisely to avoid damage to your credit report.

 

Your claim for damage as a result of the defaults on your credit file will depend on if those defaults are incorrect.

It may be (from what you have described) that you have a valid complaint : I'm not sure stopping all payment on those grounds renders T-mobile's factual reporting of defaults either:

a) grossly unfair, nor

b) inaccurate.

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Hi thanks for the reply, My long story cut short missed a few points.

 

Under the terms and conditions it states that if you write into T-Mobile explaining your dispute and how much you will be paying

and how much you wont be paying, they T-Mobile will not cut off your services.

My issue was with the SPHC (separate payment handling charge) which started to get applied to my account, I never missed my monthly payment and even paid £26.00

5 days before my services were cut.

 

T-Mobile were notified as stated in the terms and conditions by letter twice before the disconnection happened, I then terminated the agreement

due to their breach of their terms and conditions when the incoming call situation happened.

Bill had been paid 5 days before and amount owing for SPHC was £10.70 which I was disputing and T-Mobile were ignoring my complaint.

 

That may clear up any confusion on my first post, Not a case of not paying I paid on time each month just had an issue with the extra £3 they wanted to rob off me

each month for choosing my method of making payment.

 

George

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Hi thanks for the reply, My long story cut short missed a few points.

 

Under the terms and conditions it states that if you write into T-Mobile explaining your dispute and how much you will be paying

and how much you wont be paying, they T-Mobile will not cut off your services.

My issue was with the SPHC (separate payment handling charge) which started to get applied to my account, I never missed my monthly payment and even paid £26.00

5 days before my services were cut.

 

T-Mobile were notified as stated in the terms and conditions by letter twice before the disconnection happened, I then terminated the agreement

due to their breach of their terms and conditions when the incoming call situation happened.

Bill had been paid 5 days before and amount owing for SPHC was £10.70 which I was disputing and T-Mobile were ignoring my complaint.

 

That may clear up any confusion on my first post, Not a case of not paying I paid on time each month just had an issue with the extra £3 they wanted to rob off me

each month for choosing my method of making payment.

 

George

 

So, you'd risk trashing your credit rating for £10.70, rather than paying it and later demanding a refund?

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The credit file never came into the situation at first, it took a month until they started playing with my CCA file.

 

T-Mobile made a mistake by cutting of my services and breached their own terms and conditions, not that they will agree.

They were too greedy to try and grab the £10.71 off me and didn't realise I had followed the terms and conditions to the letter.

 

What is the point of having terms and conditions when the big companies don't follow them and think they are exempt from them.

 

If I had broken the terms and conditions fair enough, cut off my services until I pay my bill but I never did, Genuine dispute over the extra charges

which T-Mobile though were legal and fair but until they provided proof I wasn't paying them, unfair term, money maker for T-Mobile.

 

Its not about money for me, its about been right and T-Mobile been completely wrong by trashing my credit file for an account that is no longer.

 

I fully intend on getting these fools into court to show that they don't follow their own rules, terms and conditions, Trash credit files and make

false representations to the CCA files which has it own implications of damaging my credit worth.

 

Anyone any idea on how I can progress with this, how I would word the POC.

 

George

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The credit file never came into the situation at first, it took a month until they started playing with my CCA file.

 

T-Mobile made a mistake by cutting of my services and breached their own terms and conditions, not that they will agree.

They were too greedy to try and grab the £10.71 off me and didn't realise I had followed the terms and conditions to the letter.

 

What is the point of having terms and conditions when the big companies don't follow them and think they are exempt from them.

 

If I had broken the terms and conditions fair enough, cut off my services until I pay my bill but I never did, Genuine dispute over the extra charges

which T-Mobile though were legal and fair but until they provided proof I wasn't paying them, unfair term, money maker for T-Mobile.

 

Its not about money for me, its about been right and T-Mobile been completely wrong by trashing my credit file for an account that is no longer.

 

I fully intend on getting these fools into court to show that they don't follow their own rules, terms and conditions, Trash credit files and make

false representations to the CCA files which has it own implications of damaging my credit worth.

 

Anyone any idea on how I can progress with this, how I would word the POC.

 

George

 

If they "cut you off" for non-payment of a disputed sum, which section of their T's and C's allows you to rescind the entire contract?

 

They will argue that (initially) your calls were suspended, but the contract remained.

 

Who then terminated the agreement?.

 

If you did, using which section of the T's & C's?.

Was there a cancellation charge (likely, if you were still within the minimum term, and [if so] have you paid it?)

 

If they terminated the agreement (for example if you claimed that you had no further liability to them and made no further payments (even of the non-disputed sums), and they asked you for the outstanding sums within 7 days: if they then terminated the agreement, they are entitled to a cancellation charge: see S.7.3.1 of the T's and C's.

 

If there was a delay between the account suspension, termination by you or by them, and then a delay (you mentioned a month?) before they reported a default on your credit file : you'd have to show their reporting of a default was wholly incorrect : if they were entitled to report a default such as an unpaid cancellation charge : you can't claim for damage from an unfair report : they'll argue the report was fair.

Edited by BazzaS
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Hi BaZZaS,

 

Here is an extract from one of my letters: The actual clause is 4.4.5.1 and 4.4.5.2 (it clearly states they won't cut you off if you write in, which I did twice explaining the situation)

Also within that section it states if you breach the terms and conditions they can terminate the agreement, Since T-Mobile breached that section I terminated the contract.

 

 

 

"Under clause 4.4.5.1 and clause 4.4.5.2

Under Clause 4.4.5.1 and Clause 4.4.5.2 T-Mobile state that services will not be disconnected while a dispute is on-going, since my dispute was on-going and T-Mobile ignored the clause 4.4.5.1 and Clause 4.4.5.2 and disconnected my service I have the right to claim breach of contract without penalty.

 

The letter dated 14th January 2013 clearly states I will not be paying the SPHC on my account and asked you to show a breakdown of these charges.

on the 25th January 2013 I did not owe anything to T-Mobile other that the £10.71 which was the charges for the disputed SPHC, My account was paid up to date so therefore there was no difference to pay to T-Mobile under this clause."

 

T-Mobile claim there is a cancellation charge of around £400 but have only been reporting late payment markers to the CRA's, No mention of the £400.

Since I terminated the contract even late payment markers are completely untrue and do not reflex how the account was managed.

It all comes down to if my termination of the contract after T-Mobiles breach was legally correct and if so everything else T-Mobile have done is wrong.

 

 

George

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Also within that section it states if you breach the terms and conditions they can terminate the agreement, Since T-Mobile breached that section I terminated the contract.

 

 

T-Mobile claim there is a cancellation charge of around £400 but have only been reporting late payment markers to the CRA's, No mention of the £400.

Since I terminated the contract even late payment markers are completely untrue and do not reflex how the account was managed.

It all comes down to if my termination of the contract after T-Mobiles breach was legally correct and if so everything else T-Mobile have done is wrong.

 

 

George

 

Absolutely regarding if your termination was correct, which T-mobile will claim it wasn't : they have a section for where they can terminate for a major breach, or minor breach not corrected within 7 days of request : which is your equivalent section? (Since I don't see that you have an equivalent right).

 

If you owe them a cancellation charge and it is unpaid ; all they need do is change any CRA report to reflect this : you will have suffered no damage that you wouldn't have suffered from that cancellation charge report.

This is why I still believe any claim by you (on the basis you have stated so far) is doomed.

Edited by BazzaS
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If you were being charged this fee I'm guessing you were paying through non-Direct Debit means.

Wouldn't it also be within those same Terms and Conditions that if you choose to pay through certain methods they can charge you this handling charge? If so then you would have no claim that T-Mobile have breached the Terms and Conditions as it would infact be you who breached them.

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Just because something is in the terms and conditions does not mean they are fair, I asked for a breakdown of the fees as I don't

believe it costs £3 to t-mobile to take my payment from my debit card.

I even have an email from T-Mobile explaining I can pay online through T-Mobile web site with my debit card and no SPHC will be charged.

 

The banks and credit cards all have similar terms with their charges of £12/£25 but we can all reclaim those as unfair terms, money maker.

 

It states on T-Mobile T&C " if you write in with your dispute explaining how much you will be with holding we will not cut off your services.

I did write in twice before they suspended services, completely ignoring the letters and the T&C Clause 4.4.5.1 & 4.4.5.2.

 

Whats the point of having T&C when the company don't follow them themselves.

 

"they have a section for where they can terminate for a major breach, or minor breach not corrected within 7 days of request : which is your equivalent section? (Since I don't see that you have an equivalent right)."

 

I have the right since all contracts are two party contracts, if someone has an additional right that I don't then its an unfair contract.

If T-Mobile can terminate with immediate effect then so can I and that is what I did on the Saturday morning my services were cut off,

they failed to follow their own T&C and to me that was a serious breach of our contract leaving me with no phone service and no way to contact them.

 

I had read the T&C and the reason why I had written to them asking for a breakdown of those charges and putting those charges into dispute,

I had no problem paying any bill for services I had used, calls, mobile internet, In fact my bill was paid 5 days before so chances are T-Mobile

owe me for a whole month of calls and services.

 

George

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T-mobile will no doubt ask the court to consider if you had the right to terminate the contract as you describe, and the effect on any cancellation charge.

 

Were you outside of the minimum term of the contract, or if not, have you paid the cancellation charge?

 

As noted above, if you are in default of paying this, it'll scupper any claim by you that they "unfairly" damaged your credit report.

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There is no cancellation charge from where I stand, If I breach the T & C they are fully in their rights to charge the termination charge.

 

Since it was T-Mobile who breached they are owed nothing, although they claim otherwise which is the reason I want to take them to court

to get someone with authority to say who is right or wrong. I believe I am totally right, Done everything by the T & C and still end up with all this mess.

T-Mobile believe otherwise as they would loose £375 that was left of the contract.

 

George

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It is clear you certainly believe you are right.

 

"£375 .... Left of the contract" leads me to believe you weren't outside of minimum term (though you've been careful not to answer that, despite me raising it a number of times).

 

See above where I noted 'Otherwise, all anyone need do to get a free phone is take out a contract, miss a payment, get their service suspended, and say "my contract is now void, thanks for the free new phone"'

 

If you take T-mobile to court I suspect they will have your claim dismissed at the same time as their counterclaim for the £375 is upheld.

 

If their claim for the £375 is upheld : any attempt by you to claim their report of a default was unfairly damaging to you is dead in the water.

 

See above where I noted : "Usual advice is to continue paying, and demand a refund : if they don't give a refund them send them a letter before action. This is advisable precisely to avoid damage to your credit report."

 

You were asking for people to draft your PoC.

If you are so convinced you are right, why not draft your own PoC and ask for help refining it : you can make your salient points and ask for help with the relevant statute / case law.

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Hi BaZZaS,

 

1: Contract was still within minimum term, 14 months left.

2: Never missed a payment, always on time so your example

of anyone getting a new phone and claiming contact void is way off.

3: I never breached any T/C, I followed them when I started to get charged

SPHC afer month 4 and disputed the charges.

4: Reason I am asking for help is I am unsure what I put in the POC, false data to CRA

and damages for loss and damaging my credit worth.

 

Thanks for the input, all time taken to reply is appreciated.

 

George

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Hi BaZZaS,

 

1: Contract was still within minimum term, 14 months left.

2: Never missed a payment, always on time so your example

of anyone getting a new phone and claiming contact void is way off.

3: I never breached any T/C, I followed them when I started to get charged

SPHC afer month 4 and disputed the charges.

4: Reason I am asking for help is I am unsure what I put in the POC, false data to CRA

and damages for loss and damaging my credit worth.

 

Thanks for the input, all time taken to reply is appreciated.

 

George

 

14 months left. Unless you can show within the T's & C's where you can void the rest of the contract without cancellation charge you are scuppered (IMO).

You clearly feel otherwise.

 

If T-mobile can show you owed them money and didn't pay it, any "damages for loss and damaging my credit worth" will be your responsibility, not T-mobile's

 

It appears we'll both disagree on this, until other CAG'ers give their views, or a court rules on it.

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Hi BazzaS,

 

Just found my terms and conditions, Here is the part I am claiming:

 

 

4.4.5. If You don’t pay a bill by the date set out on it You will have

broken an important condition which is a fundamental

part of this Agreement between You and Us and this will

entitle Us to suspend Your SIM Card from the Network

and/or terminate this Agreement immediately and charge

You a Cancellation Charge except where:

4.4.5.1. You have a genuine dispute with Us; and

4.4.5.2. Before the date by which Your bill must be paid,

You have written (see point 9.6) to Us setting out

the details of Your dispute, including the amount

of Your claim against Us and the amount You

intend to withhold as disputed. If the amount You

intend to withhold is less than the total amount

You owe Us then You must pay the difference by

the date set out on the bill. If You don’t, then We

can terminate this Agreement immediately.

 

Since they suspended my services after following the rules as laid out in those terms, I choose to terminate immediately for their breach.

 

Also stated is: charge You a Cancellation Charge except where:

4.4.5.1. You have a genuine dispute with Us; and

4.4.5.2

 

Since I did everything as above terms why should I be liable for the cancellation charge and why are they still reporting for an account

that has since been terminated.

 

Only snag I have is that T-Mobile have refused to send me the letters that I have sent them over this matter proving I had written explaining

my dispute, the amount of the dispute and the amount I would and would not be paying.

 

They have so far failed my SARS request for all information and even provided me proof in the letter that came with the SARS bundle that

they have received my correspondence, it says something like " please note your letters have been forwarded to the CEO or some other office but yet

they still failed to send me even 1 of the 15 letters I have sent them or any emails I have sent.

 

George

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Hi BazzaS,

 

Just found my terms and conditions, Here is the part I am claiming:

 

 

4.4.5. If You don’t pay a bill by the date set out on it You will have

broken an important condition which is a fundamental

part of this Agreement between You and Us and this will

entitle Us to suspend Your SIM Card from the Network

and/or terminate this Agreement immediately and charge

You a Cancellation Charge except where:

4.4.5.1. You have a genuine dispute with Us; and

4.4.5.2. Before the date by which Your bill must be paid,

You have written (see point 9.6) to Us setting out

the details of Your dispute, including the amount

of Your claim against Us and the amount You

intend to withhold as disputed. If the amount You

intend to withhold is less than the total amount

You owe Us then You must pay the difference by

the date set out on the bill. If You don’t, then We

can terminate this Agreement immediately.

 

Since they suspended my services after following the rules as laid out in those terms, I choose to terminate immediately for their breach.

 

Also stated is: charge You a Cancellation Charge except where:

4.4.5.1. You have a genuine dispute with Us; and

4.4.5.2

 

Since I did everything as above terms why should I be liable for the cancellation charge and why are they still reporting for an account

that has since been terminated.

 

Only snag I have is that T-Mobile have refused to send me the letters that I have sent them over this matter proving I had written explaining

my dispute, the amount of the dispute and the amount I would and would not be paying.

 

They have so far failed my SARS request for all information and even provided me proof in the letter that came with the SARS bundle that

they have received my correspondence, it says something like " please note your letters have been forwarded to the CEO or some other office but yet

they still failed to send me even 1 of the 15 letters I have sent them or any emails I have sent.

 

George

 

None of which gives YOU the right to terminate the contract without a cancellation charge.

If YOU "terminated the contract" and they then asked for a cancellation charge, which you didn't pay : you are in breach, and they can report a default.

4.4.5 allows THEM to terminate the contract, potentially without cancellation charge ; that doesn't give YOU an equal right.

 

If they feel you didn't terminate the contract, when you stopped paying the line rental, rather than just the disputed sum, they then will have terminated the contract over the undisputed sum, making you still liable for a cancellation charge.

 

This I have repeated, and you still haven't stated where the T's and C's allow you to do so without a cancellation charge: .... IMO because they don't.

4.4.5 allows them lattitude, it doesn't allow you the same.

 

I fear this will be your stumbling block.

 

Again, this is why I noted: "Usual advice is to continue paying, and demand a refund : if they don't give a refund them send them a letter before actionlink3.gif. This is advisable precisely to avoid damage to your credit report."

 

Anyhow, I'm repeating myself, and neither of us is adding anything new and significant.

Your choice if you take it to court : I think you'll lose, and risk the counterclaim for the cancellation fee, for the reasons I've stated.

Given that we are repeating ourselves : either I've convinced you or not. Either way : I'm done here.

Edited by BazzaS
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