Millions of motorists face £100 FINES when new laws come into effect on FRIDAY !!

[banjo67xxx]

Personally, i would have liked to see another punishment. If you get caught 3 times in breach of the highway code, you are forced to sit an advanced theory test. This requires the participant to get a much higher score on the test than anyone else would normally be required to. If they fail the test, they get one more chance ( the participant has to pay for the tests themselves). Fail the theory a second time, and another fine is incurred, or depending on the score, a driving ban.

 

The government NEEDS to come down HARD on bad drivers. It is that simple.

 

We already have the concept of re-taking the driving test for drunk drivers, and there are speed awareness and alcohol awareness courses, so I dont see too much change is required in the law bring this idea into effect.

 

Or we could just simply copy the US driving licensing system, where everyone has to retake the theory test every 4 years to renew their license (you also have to be able to read a license tag at a simulated 67ft and be aware of red flashing indicators in your peripheral vision using special optical testing equipment in the test center). They also take your photo in the test center and put your height weight age and eye colour details on the license, and whether you have to wear glasses. (BTW, this was back in the 80's)

 

Its a pity that the theory was so pathetically simple, otherwise its a good idea.

[bigsteve0000]

I wish the would prosecute those lorries that take about 10 minutes to overtake other lorries on dual carriageways. VERY annoying.

 

these vehicles are restricted to a maximum speed of 56 mph. some will only do 53 and they have a legal right to overtake. they are not lane hogging their making a living by moving all that stuff that we all rely on at some point in our live's.

[Tryst]

Another reason for police to concentrate on drivers instead of the real criminals. While I am in favour of it on principle, it will take too many police officers off the streets looking for a quick and easy nick.

 

I would also extend it to lorries who hog two lanes because the one overtaking is doing 0.025 mph faster so they block both lanes between them for many miles at a time.

[banjo67xxx]

I would also extend it to lorries who hog two lanes because the one overtaking is doing 0.025 mph faster so they block both lanes between them for many miles at a time.

 

That's not technically middle lane hogging as they are in fact overtaking (albeit very slowly).

 

I suggest we take an idea from the French autoroutes - simply implement no overtaking for vehicles over 7.5t for 1 mile sections of the motorway. Then they can still overtake each other on the other sections of motorway, but atleast the car drivers are guaranteed a rest from this every few miles.

[labrat]

these vehicles are restricted to a maximum speed of 56 mph. some will only do 53 and they have a legal right to overtake. they are not lane hogging their making a living by moving all that stuff that we all rely on at some point in our live's.

 

some companys take it further

 

tescos speed limiters are 50mph

most lorrys ive driven are 56 tho

[Surfer01]

We were on the motorway for the first time on Tuesday morning since the new laws and not much difference with many cars still hogging the middle lane. we also noticed that people will move into the "fast" lane and then hog it doing 65 - 70mph creating huge tailbacks and if the middle lane is being hogged also, it becomes a nightmare. Not a police officer in sight although West Mercia police HQ is next to that stretch of motorway. My guess is that they were out catching criminals!

[sequenci]

these vehicles are restricted to a maximum speed of 56 mph. some will only do 53 and they have a legal right to overtake. they are not lane hogging their making a living by moving all that stuff that we all rely on at some point in our live's.

 

It can be massively dangerous - and all lorry drivers have an obligation to drive with due care and attention; and let's be clear about this - the vast majority do. Absolutely.

[renegadeimp]

We were on the motorway for the first time on Tuesday morning since the new laws and not much difference with many cars still hogging the middle lane. we also noticed that people will move into the "fast" lane and then hog it doing 65 - 70mph creating huge tailbacks and if the middle lane is being hogged also, it becomes a nightmare. Not a police officer in sight although West Mercia police HQ is next to that stretch of motorway. My guess is that they were out catching criminals!

 

If any of the other lands are free, use it. As long as you have a clear entrance and exit route, under taking is not illegal and hasnt been for years. I regularly drive up and down the M6 North, and if i can use an empty lane, i will.

[banjo67xxx]

under taking is not illegal and hasnt been for years. I regularly drive up and down the M6 North, and if i can use an empty lane, i will.

When I read the Highway Code years ago it said undertaking was not allowed unless you are in slow moving traffic queues and the lane on your right becomes slower than yours.

 

It still says something similar today

https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/overtaking-267-to-269

 

However, I too, often find myself in a position where I would have to make 4 lane changes to get from the left lane accross the middle to the right lane and back again. So using the old version of the highway code I'd justify my actions as, a queue can consist of a single vehicle, and the middle lane hogger is therefore a queue to my right which is travelling slower than my queue, me.

 

On one occassion 18 years ago, when I didn't see the police car in my mirror, the officer said that he found it difficult to justify the words "slow moving queues" when the middle lane hogger was doing 70mph, but luckily he let me off with a warning. (My speed was under ACPO guidelines for a FPN)

Edited August 29, 2013 by banjo67xxx

[Tryst]

Undertaking is very dangerous. I had a near crash tonight coming home from work with an idiot tailgating me as I overtook a lorry so I indicated to pull over to the inside lane when I had a chance, only to have to swerve back onto the fast lane as he shot past on the inside. I was doing 70 and he went past me as if I was standing still so I could easily have run him off the road at his speed if I had been slower reacting, he would never have been able to control it.

[banjo67xxx]

Undertaking is very dangerous. I had a near crash tonight coming home from work with an idiot tailgating me as I overtook a lorry so I indicated to pull over to the inside lane when I had a chance, only to have to swerve back onto the fast lane as he shot past on the inside.

 

Well, undertaking like that is just plain stupid. That's why its illegal.

 

When traffic is "moving in queues" you should always be wary that the person on your right might suddenly decide to change lanes, especially the awkward so-and-so's who do it deliberately in order to add dangerous driving to the offence of driving without due care and consideration. I'm sure that renegadeimp exercises similar caution.

[Surfer01]

Undertaking is not illegal and has never been illegal. There is no law or regulation making undertaking illegal other wise the motorways would come to a standstill. How many times have you been on the inside lane and find yourself overtaking vehicles in the middle and outside lanes?

[banjo67xxx]

Undertaking is not illegal

 

Sorry, wrong terminology. "Against the advice of the Highway Code" and I've already pointed out that in traffic queues on motorways it is acceptable to undertake when the queue on your right is travelling slower than you.

 

To be pedantic, I don't believe that middle lane hogging is explicitely prohibited with its own section in statute. It comes under the general rule of "driving without due care & consideration for other road users" which is what you would get a FPN for if you undertook like the idiot did when undertaking Tryst

Edited August 30, 2013 by banjo67xxx
spelling mistake

[Grotesque]

Yes, that's it.

[T.C.]

Sorry, wrong terminology. "Against the advice of the Highway Code"

 

To be pedantic, I don't believe that middle lane hogging is explicitely prohibited with its own section in statute. It comes under the general rule of "driving without due care & consideration for other road users" which is what you would get a FPN for if you undertook like the idiot did when undertaking Tryst

 

The Highway Code is not law, except where the rule is supported by an act and section, traffic order or regulation.

 

As far as lane hogging is concerned, you ate right it is covered under section 3 of the Road Traffic Act as I have already mentioned but as undertaking is concerned, as someone else has rightly pointed out, undertaking is not illegal, in fact the specific offence was removed from the 1972 Road Traffic Act and it became a requirement that to prosecute that the standard of driving fell well below that expected of a reasonably safe and competent driver. The simple act of undertaking is insufficient on its own, but if it was at excessive speed or weaving from lane to lane, then that might well justify a prosecution.

 

But there is a statutory duty of care on the part of the drivers in the outside lane to ensure that it is safe to return to the nearside lane (There is no such thing as a fast lane on a Motorway btw)

 

Even the civil courts are starting to accept this now as I have had a couple of crash cases where the motorcyclist has been undertaking and a vehicle returning to the nearside lane without having first checked that it was safe to do so but had been witnessed as having spent an unreasonable period of time in the centre lane when not overtaking, has been held liable for causation

[renegadeimp]

Undertaking is perfectly legal and a valid maneuver providing you exercise caution and ensure that there is enough space to allow easy and safe passage past the vehicle.

[banjo67xxx]

undertaking is not illegal, in fact the specific offence was removed from the 1972 Road Traffic Act

 

Thanks T.C. for the clarification - You learn something new everyday!

 

BTW, when was that removed?

 

Another good reason for repeating the theory test every 4 years, as with US licenses. So you can keep up to date with the latest changes to the Highway Code and the law.

 

And whilst I'm on the subject of changes to the Highway Code its been about 60 years since it said you don't signal when going straight at roundabouts, so leave that damn right indicator off unless you're actually turning right!

[T.C.]

 

BTW, when was that removed?

 

Another good reason for repeating the theory test every 4 years, as with US licenses. So you can keep up to date with the latest changes to the Highway Code and the law.

 

The clue to the first part of your post as to when it was removed? 1972 Road Traffic Act?

 

In respect of retesting, it was seriously considered a few years ago, and I remember it clearly because I was one of a number of advanced examiners who were approached and asked if we would be interested in becoming re-test examiners as the logistics would place too much strain on the existing system as the DSA examiners would not be able to cope with the extra work load.

 

Then someone in Government pointed out that making drivers sit a re-test every 5 or 10 years would be a guaranteed vote loser, and so it was quickly and quietly dropped.

[desperate31]

I will admit to using the middle lane a lot but thats simply because I feel safer and that I'm making progress on my journey. I don't think the new law has been thoroughly thought through.

A car stuck in the inside lane behind something doing 50mph trying to get into the middle lane faces more danger trying to get up to speed and out especially as when you are about to pull out another vehicle moves over into the space you were aiming for from the outside lane. Essentially inside lane to middle lane you need to watch 2 lanes. In the middle lane its so much easier to see what the traffic is intending. To do what would be a 4 hour journey @ 70mph but at 50 mph is so much more tiring which is also a danger.

A more logical way to sort the lanes would be to have the inside lane for those who can only do or want to travel between 50-70mph. The middle lane should be 71-85mph and the outside lane for overtaking all the rest. I do agree that some drivers do hog the middle lane doing 60mph. The actual speeds done on the motorway should be looked at not the speed limits but at the general speed of the motorway at a particular time and place.i.e there and then.

[sailor sam]

What about coaches which are limited to lanes 1 and 2 but can do 70 mph? At the end of the day the middle lane is for overtaking as is lane 3. If lane 1 is clear for about half a mile ahead, there is no legit reason for you to be in the middle lane.

[banjo67xxx]

I will admit to using the middle lane a lot but thats simply because I feel safer and that I'm making progress on my journey.

Sorry to be harsh on you as you've not made many posts on this website, but the law is designed to make people like you change your unsocial behaviour. You idea is unworkable because of HGVs, and seriously you should consider taking lessons in motorway driving.

 

A car stuck in the inside lane behind something doing 50mph trying to get into the middle lane faces more danger trying to get up to speed and out especially as when you are about to pull out another vehicle moves over into the space you were aiming for from the outside lane. Essentially inside lane to middle lane you need to watch 2 lanes. In the middle lane its so much easier to see what the traffic is intending.

On motorways you should make very gradual changes of direction and mirror-signal-manoevre doesn't mean you are committed to the manoevre once the signal is made, so you should be able to avoid the situation you describe simply by signalling for a second or two before you start to move, then move slowly towards the middle lane, whilst regularly checking your mirror. Other drivers will see your signal and know to remain in the right lane.

 

Changing lanes on motorways is not as dangerous as middle-lane hoggers think! (except just after you've joined the motorway - see why ...) There appear to be a lot of idiots around who dont know what the mirrors are for. If you check you mirrors regularly like you're supposed to, then you know exactly which vehicles are behind you and how fast they are approaching, so when it does come time to change lanes if there is a vehicle missing from in front or behind, then its in your blind spot. It does take a minute to learn where everyone is, which is why you need to look over shoulder if you want to overtake straight after joining the motorway. Many times I have been surprised to find someone in the middle lane in my blind spot despite thoroughly checking the mirrors along the slip lane. Another advantage of knowing who's where is that you can take safer evasive action if something unexpected happens in front of you.

Edited September 4, 2013 by banjo67xxx
correct grammar

[bmwman]

I personally am glad the these new laws have come in to effect. Although I do not do a lot of motorway driving when I do use them I am feed up with idiots hogging the centre doing 60MPH with nothing in the inside lane for miles. As it means to over take them you have to move across to lanes. The worst case I came across personally I was driving up the M23 towards London their was some idiot sitting in the centre lane doing 30MPH on his mobile phone totally oblivious to what was going on around him.

[desperate31]

Sorry to be harsh on you as you've not made many posts on this website, but the law is designed to make people like you change your unsocial behaviour. You idea is unworkable because of HGVs, and seriously you should consider taking lessons in motorway driving.

 

On motorways you should make very gradual changes of direction and mirror-signal-manoevre doesn't mean you are committed to the manoevre once the signal is made, so you should be able to avoid the situation you describe simply by signalling for a second or two before you start to move, then move slowly towards the middle lane, whilst regularly checking your mirror. Other drivers will see your signal and know to remain in the right lane.

 

Changes lanes on motorways is not as dangerous as middle-lane hoggers think! (except just after you've joined the motorway - see why ...) There appear to be a lot of idiots around who dont know what the mirrors are for. If you check you mirrors regularly like you're supposed to, then you know exactly which vehicles are behind you and how fast they are approaching, so when it does come time to change lanes if there is a vehicle missing from in front or behind, then its in your blind spot. It does take a minute to learn where everyone is, which is why you need to look over shoulder if you want to overtake straight after joining the motorway. Many times I have been surprised to find someone in the middle lane in my blind spot despite thoroughly checking the mirrors along the slip lane. Another advantage of knowing who's where is that you can take safer evasive action if something unexpected happens in front of you.

 

1. I am actually a very considerate driver. My behaviour is not unsocial.

2. HGV's cause a lot of hassle of the roads.....why do they always insist overtaking each other at speeds of 50mph v 51mph on a hill.

3. Taking lessons won't help avoid the actual idiots on the road.

4. You obviously drive on very quiet motorways. I've had to wait at least 5 minutes before anyone will let me out and I am not going to move into the middle lane doing 55 mph because that is the perfect way to have someone go straight up the back of you. 5. Please do tell me oh guru of the motorway - just how do I get an extra pair of eyes at the back of my head? I use all the mirrors but I also have to look forward so I don't go up the back of anyone when I'm trying to accelerate in the middle lane whilst at the same time judging the speed and gap available to me? And what about those in the outside lane doing 90mph getting into the same lane as someone trying to accelerate and watch multiple vehicles? You must have driven on a motorway at some point and have something fly past you like you were standing still? well that applies to moving from the inside to the middle. First its clear and then its not.

I want to point out I do not do 60mph in the middle lane. I keep up with the traffic, I'm overtaking the slow ones in the inside lane and I'm travelling at 70mph. IF there is a big enough gap in the inside lane i.e I can travel in it for at least 5 minutes without having to hop in and out or slow down I will use it.

I observe the slip lanes and adjust my speed/gaps with other traffic so that adjoining traffic can safely get on because those in the inside lane can move safely into the middle lane. There is nothing worse than being on the inside lane and finding a car bombing down the slip road at 70pmh, I'm stuck at 50mph and unable to move into the middle lane to get out of their way.....it creates what I class at the S*** S*** S*** situation. - do you a) continue as you were and risk a car going straight into the side of you (accident in the making) b) force your way into the middle lane making all the other traffic suddenly slow down (multiple accidents in the making) ,c) slam your brakes on (another accident waiting) or d) sit in the middle lane where a considerate driver will make space either by slowing slightly, speeding up or moving into the outside lane (which also means taking your life into your own hands.

 

Also is anyone else really fed up with people not using the 2 second rule? Many a time I have left what I consider to be a comfortable safe distance from the car in front (in any lane I must add) only to have some idiot pull into that gap making you have to slow down.

Another bugbear of mine are those who pull in/change lanes and just miss hitting my car because they haven't allowed sufficient room. Why do they not use their mirrors to check they are sufficiently past the vehicle before pulling in. Hmmm?

Edited September 4, 2013 by desperate31

[desperate31]

For the reasons you have given I totally agree. Many a time I've come across 60mph in the middle lane and down to 40mph in the inside lane. It is actually an offence to not do a reasonable speed on the appropriate roads because it is dangerous to be so slow in comparison with the rest of the traffic.

 

I personally am glad the these new laws have come in to effect. Although I do not do a lot of motorway driving when I do use them I am feed up with idiots hogging the centre doing 60MPH with nothing in the inside lane for miles. As it means to over take them you have to move across to lanes. The worst case I came across personally I was driving up the M23 towards London their was some idiot sitting in the centre lane doing 30MPH on his mobile phone totally oblivious to what was going on around him.

[banjo67xxx]

4. You obviously drive on very quiet motorways. I've had to wait at least 5 minutes before anyone will let me out and I am not going to move into the middle lane doing 55 mph because that is the perfect way to have someone go straight up the back of you.

No, I've been driving up & down the M3 & M27 every weekday during rush hour since '96. Luckily these days I've moved closer to the "Silicon Valley of the UK" and only have a short journey along the M3.

 

5. Please do tell me oh guru of the motorway - just how do I get an extra pair of eyes at the back of my head? I use all the mirrors but I also have to look forward so I don't go up the back of anyone when I'm trying to accelerate in the middle lane whilst at the same time judging the speed and gap available to me?

Personally, I look ahead for a few seconds, then glance centre mirror, ahead a few secs, glance right mirror, ahead a few secs, glance centre mirror, ahead a few secs, glance left mirror, and so on ...

 

Even if there is someone doing 140mph I'll be aware that they weren't there last time I looked and now they're only 1/2 mile away and realise that they are seriously speeding.

 

I drive a heavy 4x4 so I cant accelerate that fast, so to accelerate and change lanes I do the following. I select a gap which is big to move into between 2 vehicles in the middle lane. Just before the first of these vehicles is about to pass me I start accelerating and signalling, then as the back of their car draws level with the front of mine I start to gradually move towards the middle lane. If necessary once I'm in the middle lane I ease of the accelerator to allow the gap to grow back to 1.5 seconds, and I do confess that the 2nd vehicle behind is often less than 2 seconds away. So 2nd vehicle will sometimes have to ease off the accelerator to grow their gap again, but I never cause them to need to brake (except when up ahead a tailgater panics and everyone has to brake).

 

There is nothing worse than being on the inside lane and finding a car bombing down the slip road at 70pmh, I'm stuck at 50mph and unable to move into the middle lane to get out of their way.....it creates what I class at the S*** S*** S*** situation. - do you a) continue as you were and risk a car going straight into the side of you (accident in the making) b) force your way into the middle lane making all the other traffic suddenly slow down (multiple accidents in the making) ,c) slam your brakes on (another accident waiting) or d) sit in the middle lane where a considerate driver will make space either by slowing slightly, speeding up or moving into the outside lane (which also means taking your life into your own hands.

The Highway Code is clear on this point. The cars on the motorway have right of way, so the idiots in the slip lane must slow down to your speed, or out accelerate you so that you have no chance of hitting them. I frequently have to slow down on the hard shoulder because M3J3 southbound slip is uphill and I can't out accelerate the HGVs in the left lane.

 

Also is anyone else really fed up with people not using the 2 second rule?

Sorry, that'll probably be me. I've timed myself by saying "only a fool brakes the 2 second rule" out loud, and I my safe gap is about 1.5 seconds (unless its raining). If I leave 2 whole seconds then someone will fill the gap. And when I'm trying to get into the middle or right lane, about 2-2.5 seconds is what I consider just about big enough for me to move into.