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    • Hi allets, CCA to whoever is the debt owner today, let us know their response, or lack there of, for further guidance   Or you could read up other threads and the advice will be the same   BT
    • OK, let's get stuck into these damn fleecers.  Building on last night's version, new bits in red.   LFI, can you check I've understood the POFA bits properly that you suggested (4.  NO KEEPER LIABILITY)?  Thanks.     IN THE COUNTY COURT SHEFFIELD    CLAIM NO: XXXX   HX PARKING LTD  (CLAIMANT) VS XXX (DEFENDANT)   Date: 3rd May 2022   Witness Statement   1. I, Mr XXX, of xxx am the Defendant against whom this claim is made.   1.1. I was the registered keeper of the vehicle XXX.   1.2. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief.   INSUFFICIENT & CONFUSING SIGNAGE   2. I confirm that i was the Registered Keeper of the vehicle which is in question in this case and the vehicle was parked in Alma Leisure Centre, Chesterfield. The vehicle was parked there because the driver went to McDonald’s for eat in (bank statement proof exhibit 1).   2.1. There were no clear signs at the entrance nor in the car park, it was night time and weather was not clear as well.   2.2.  In their Witness Statement opposing my set aside application the Claimant includes a site plan showing the position of their signs and a close up of a sign to make it look like it is featured in the Guinness Book of Records as the largest billboard in world history.   2.3.  The reality for the motorist is completely different.  I attach photos, some from Google Earth but most taken by myself, which show what a motorist sees when approaching the site in daylight (exhibit 2).  There is no sign at the entrance.  The car then drives past a gym and a cinema without encountering any signs.  When then parking in the car park outside McDonald's once again there is dearth of signage.  Admittedly a motorist who perhaps came out with binoculars might just about be able to make out signs in the far distance mounted on various buildings.   2.4.  The driver visited the site around midnight.  I further attach photos taken at night from the McDonald's area (exhibit 3) and defy whoever is representing HX Parking at the hearing to point out the signs the driver should have read.  There aren't any.  I have not doctored these photos in any way or deliberately not photographed visible signs.  There simply are no visible signs.   2.5.  Even if the driver had seen the signs, they would have been extremely confusing.  A car is normally allowed to be parked for five hours, yet after midnight this is changed to one hour.  This begs the question for how long a motorist entering at 10pm for example is allowed to stay.  Is it for five hours until 3am or until 1am?   2.6. The PCN/NTK states "period of parking 00:02:05".  It is common sense that a couple of minutes was needed to enter the complex, find McDonald's and find a parking space, before the period of parking began, so it is likely the car entered the car park before midnight allowing the driver to park the car there for five hours.   2.7.  Even if the driver had seen the signage - they did not - the mention of a £100 charge is literally the last word on the last line of a long board of text.   UNFAIR TERM   3.  In an interview with the local newspaper (exhibit 4) Ms Ellie Berkeley, HX PCN administration team leader, said: “The five-hour maximum stay prevents workers from close by abusing the land and parking there for free, without using the shops on site" which makes sense.   3.1.  This therefore begs the question of why this limit is cut by a massive 80% after midnight when the cinema and eateries are still open.  The driver indeed ate at McDonald's.   3.2.  Ms Berkeley continued: "Five hours is sufficient time to visit the cinema and also eat at a restaurant".  Certainly five hours are sufficient.  One hour is not.    3.3.  I would maintain this is an unfair term under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 part 2 section 62 (6) ""A notice is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations to the detriment of the consumer".  Such a term has absolutely nothing to do with efficient management of a car park and everything to do with trying to catch diners or cinema-goers out and thus have an excuse to issue PCNs.   NO KEEPER LIABILITY   4. The Particulars of Claim do not clarify in what capacity they believe I am liable but state that the Defendant is “liable as the driver or keeper” of the vehicle. This appears to be “fishing” for liability.     4.1.  The Claimant's PCN does not comply with Section 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.  POFA states that a parking period must be stated and it is quite clear that entering and leaving the car park does not constitute a parking period since some of the time the motorist is either driving around looking for a parking spot then leaving the spot and driving to the exit.  All that takes time.   4.2.  To transfer liability of the alleged debt from the driver to the keeper, in their PCN the Claimant must include the wording at Schedule 4 s9 [2][f] this "(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)" but they have not. That in itself makes it non-compliant.   LOCUS STANDI   5.  Looking at the contract with the landowner which the Claimant included when opposing my set aside application, the names of the signatories and their positions in their respective  companies have been redacted.  The Claimant is put to strict proof of who actually signed.   5.1.  There is no specific authorisation from the Client to allow court action in pursuit of non payers.   In section 11 which is like an addendum it states "the Company shall provide parking control" but does not state if that includes legal pursuit as well and it does not appear to be signed.   ILLEGAL SIGNAGE   6.  After checking, I have found out that there in NO planning permission granted for said signs, therefore making them illegal as lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under the Road Traffic Acts 1962 and 1991 and no contract can be performed where criminality is concerned.   6.1.  The Claimant is supposed to comply with the law and the IPC Code of Conduct and they have done neither.  The new government Private Parking Code of Practice draws attention as well to s14.1 [g]  "g) responsibility for obtaining relevant consents e.g. planning or advertising consents relating to signs."   ABUSE OF PROCESS   7. The Claimant seeks recovery of the original £100 parking charge plus an additional £60 described as “contractual costs and interest” or “debt collection costs”. No further justification or breakdown has been provided as required under Civil Procedure Rule 16.4.    7.1.  As part of the provisions of the Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019, on 07/02/2022 a new Code of Practice was published by the government, designed to prevent these “rogue” traders from "ripping people off" (the minister's words) with extra charges, which have been deemed unfair (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/privateparking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice).    7.2.  Section 9 of the new Code of Practice, regulates the matter of recovery costs: “The parking operator must not levy additional costs over and above the level of a parking charge or parking tariff as originally issued” (exhibit 5).   7.3.  Even before publication of the government’s Code of Practice, Parliament intended that private parking companies could not invent extra charges. PoFA Schedule 4, paragraph 4(5) states that “The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper is the amount specified in the notice to keeper” which in this case is £100.    7.4.  Previous parking charge cases have found that the parking charge itself is at a level to include the costs of recovery ie: Parking Eye Ltd vs Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 which is the authority for recovery of the parking charge itself and no more, since that sum (£85) was held to already incorporate the costs of an automated private parking business model and the Supreme Court Judges held that a parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case in damages. It is indisputable that an alleged “parking charge” penalty is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated to more than comfortably cover all costs. The case provides a finding of fact by way of precedent, that the £85 (or up to a Trade Body ceiling of £100 depending on the parking firm) covers the costs of the letters. Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated ‘’Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones-Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates [...] in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared [...] the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.’’   7.5.  In Claim numbers F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia vs Crosby the courts went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton Douglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of Wight & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ‘’It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in ParkingEye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''    7.6. The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   Statement of Truth    I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.   I understand that proceedings for contempt of Court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.
    • Hi dx100uk. I didn't know about the above. Do I request a new CCA from Cabot? Are you  also suggesting that I stop payments to Cabot until this is sorted out?  I have since then built up a good credit rating from the reference agencies  and would not like to turn this sour again. It took some time to get straight. Allets.
    • ah! FCA their new name (well 15yrs ago) for the FSA.   interesting they helped here this must mean they have had a series of complaints then.   dx      
    • so YOU have already responded to the TfL letter NOT you mother? YOU need to respond by begging not her!!   have you still the original TfL letter please.?   p'haps if you have please scan it up to PDF read upload   and also do this with the summons you have  is this single justice procedure hearing with 3 options as that other thread you posted on above?   dx      
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Horse claim or investigation CAN THIS BE RIGHT (EQUINE 1)


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HI everyone ,

 

I'm normally found getting at the banks for their outrageous behaviour, but a couple of weeks ago I re insured my horse with the NFU.

 

They agreed I or my daughter could pay by direct debit etc......all well so far.

 

Unfortunately we noticed our horse having a slight limp at times and we called out a vet.

 

The vet came out and took him into the surgery for tests.

 

we Rang the NFU and they were al helpful in the what we could do and what we able to claim for.

 

After a week or so a lady from Equine 1 rang us to ask to come to our house to speak to us about the horse.THE QUESTIONS STARTED

 

where is the horse?

 

whats the stable owners name

 

when did we notice this ,

 

who lives in the house

 

etc etc normal questions about the horse?, the lady was taken up to the yard to see the horse, she then proceeded to ask who was the stable manager where was the yard owner and went off around the yard asking all and sundary questions. Now I was getting a little bit sick of the way in which she was so called putting a face to the claim just to understand the picture.

 

I found out today that said woman has contacted the yard manager and asked questions about our horse ,because she thought our yard manager might like to say something about us when were not there.......oh and the latest things were she wants our telephone records for my daughter and my wife from MAY then receipts for the saddles ........what the helll does this have to do with a claim for the horse'

 

I feel like I'm under a fraud investigation is this legal to ask for such personal information that is totally irrelevant to the horses problems can anyone tell me where I stand with this person and what should I say to the phone calls records

 

regards

 

Nigel 1804

HALIFAX CURRENT ACCOUNT SETTLED IN FULL 9/9/06.

 

N1 form completed 05-06-07,LBA sent 14-05-07,2nd go!Prelim sent 24/04/07

 

Halifax Visa 1.Paid in full

Halifax Classic.Paid in full.

 

LBA sent 14-05-07,GMAC prelim sent 24/04/07

 

Data Protection Act for halifax mortgage 16/09/06.

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Hi, I hope you are not sick of questions, as I would like to ask some as well. I have an equine veterinary background so might have some insight into the questions she asked.

 

Do you have a diagnosis what is causing the lameness in the horse?

Was the lameness observed during a walk or trot or both?

Saddles: Were they new saddles/new to the horse?

 

As to phone records, have you asked why she needs to know the records?

you say she is looking for records for May. When did you take out the insurance? If this was after May, maybe she is trying to determine if the horse was lame prior to the insurance starting.

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Hi, I hope you are not sick of questions, as I would like to ask some as well. I have an equine veterinary background so might have some insight into the questions she asked.

 

Do you have a diagnosis what is causing the lameness in the horse?

Was the lameness observed during a walk or trot or both?

Saddles: Were they new saddles/new to the horse?

 

As to phone records, have you asked why she needs to know the records?

you say she is looking for records for May. When did you take out the insurance? If this was after May, maybe she is trying to determine if the horse was lame prior to the insurance starting.

 

Hi the diagnosis was navicular the saddle was a specially fit saddle .nothing what so ever to do with the diagnosis. Also why the intrusion into who lives in my house ages etc

 

Insurance was taken out 1st July . Lameness noted 18 /19 July. Same vet used since we had him but to me they are insinuating that my claim is false. My horse is of good stock he is by old Vic racehorse. I find it to be very intrusive a quite an insinuation that I'm a fraud.

 

Regards Nigel 1804

HALIFAX CURRENT ACCOUNT SETTLED IN FULL 9/9/06.

 

N1 form completed 05-06-07,LBA sent 14-05-07,2nd go!Prelim sent 24/04/07

 

Halifax Visa 1.Paid in full

Halifax Classic.Paid in full.

 

LBA sent 14-05-07,GMAC prelim sent 24/04/07

 

Data Protection Act for halifax mortgage 16/09/06.

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Hi Nigel,

 

Sorry to hear about the navicular. I'm guessing that because it is expensive to treat, and was diagnosed less than 3 weeks after your insurance started they are suspicious about it.

It does seem weird though some of the questions they are asking.

 

My suggestion would be to write them a letter, requesting detailed information why they need all this information.

However, I would strongly suggest you do supply them with all the information they require, as insurance companies are used to dealing with fraudulent claims, especially in the pet industry, and will look for the smallest excuse not to pay the vet. I have witnessed on many occasion brand new insurance on a condition that clearly has been present preceding the start of the insurance.

 

Please also do bear in mind that my advice has no legal basis, and can only offer my prospective from the veterinary side and having dealt with almost every equine insurance company in the UK. If anyone with more insurance knowledge than me can offer any assistance, please do.

Please keep us updated on the outcome.

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Nigel. Put yourself in the Insurers shoes and think how this claim looks. Why has the Horse suddenly shown signs of a medical condition, weeks after an Insurance policy is taken out ? The Insurers have every right to investigate the claim as they see fit and your indignation which is understandable, could look as though you were trying to claim for something that started before the Insurance was arranged. You should let the Insurers investigate properly on the basis that you have given accurate information at all times and that there is nothing wrong with the claim submitted. If everyone says the horse was fit until very recently and te vet confirms it is probably a very recent condition, then I would hope there would be no problem with the claim.

We could do with some help from you.

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YES, I appreciate the situation and i could understand the looking into the claim......But to ask for my daughters and my wife's phone records I think is pushing the boat out a bit far.......even asking right down to who lives in my house and what they do and lots of other personal questions totally irrelevant to the horse .

The police would have had to arrest me to look that far into any other form of crime. She can have the phone records for my wife as we are on a contract but don't know how you get the phone records for the "pay as you go" on my daughters old phone...any ideas.

I honestly feel like telling them to shove it up their ......; but maybe that's the game they want me to play.

 

This has really surprised me with the NFU

 

keep wriggling they will be wriggling a long time to try get out of this claim

 

thanks everyone

 

regards nigel1804

HALIFAX CURRENT ACCOUNT SETTLED IN FULL 9/9/06.

 

N1 form completed 05-06-07,LBA sent 14-05-07,2nd go!Prelim sent 24/04/07

 

Halifax Visa 1.Paid in full

Halifax Classic.Paid in full.

 

LBA sent 14-05-07,GMAC prelim sent 24/04/07

 

Data Protection Act for halifax mortgage 16/09/06.

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Your daughter ( or person registered for the phone) can ask the PAYG phone company for a log of phone calls made, but there may be a fee for this, if you cannot log in online to access this. The reason they are asking, is whether there were a series of phone calls that appear connected to an event prior to the Insurance start date. For example, there may be phone calls between Mother/Father & Daughter & stable manager within a short space of time. This may indicate an event related to the horse before the Insurance was arranged.

 

The Insurers obviously believe that fraud is a possibility, hence why they are asking for all of this information. You should provide as much information as you can, as that is demonstrating that you have nothing to hide.

 

See the process through and see what happens. Hold your fire for later, when you can write a strong letter of complaint to the CEO of NFU.

We could do with some help from you.

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ok will do many thanks for the help

 

regards nigel1804

HALIFAX CURRENT ACCOUNT SETTLED IN FULL 9/9/06.

 

N1 form completed 05-06-07,LBA sent 14-05-07,2nd go!Prelim sent 24/04/07

 

Halifax Visa 1.Paid in full

Halifax Classic.Paid in full.

 

LBA sent 14-05-07,GMAC prelim sent 24/04/07

 

Data Protection Act for halifax mortgage 16/09/06.

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Whilst noting that the insurer may be concerned about fraud because of a claim arising shortly after the policy inception, I see that OP says that the horse was re-insured - in other words, it was previously insured. That must go towards this being a new and unexpected occurrence rather than a policy taken out because the horse was showing symptoms.

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Whilst noting that the insurer may be concerned about fraud because of a claim arising shortly after the policy inception, I see that OP says that the horse was re-insured - in other words, it was previously insured. That must go towards this being a new and unexpected occurrence rather than a policy taken out because the horse was showing symptoms.

 

Yes, but it depends on whether there was a gap when the horse was not insured or the previous policy excluded the condition being covered for whatever reason.

 

NFU are a very good Insurance company, but from I have heard they are red hot on any 'signals' of fraud and will investigate fully. It is not that they are trying to avoid the claim, but rule out the possibility of fraud.

We could do with some help from you.

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