HELP!!!! Dental charges for under 16?????

[susie58]

Hi, I have no idea what section this would come under.

I'm really hoping someone can give me some advice with this.

My husband and myself are registered with a private dentist - that also sees our children (both under 16 and in full time education) On our last check up the dentist said my daughter needed specialist treatment and there were absesses forming along the top of her front teeth and she needed to see a endodontist (? think that's the name he said). He said this work was not carried out by NHS and the only way we could have it was private - and pay!

We were presented with a written £400 bill. This was increased to £500 on the first appointment

I have since looked up the treatment he said she needed and it is basic root canal work- which is done routinely on the NHS.

My question is should he have referred us to the NHS dentist for this work to be carried out due to her age?

Any help or advice on this would be really welcome

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I think the NHS forum is the place to find people who may know the answers. I'll move your thread there and leave you a short term redirect to follow from the forum.

 

My best, HB

[susie58]

Hello there.

 

I think the NHS forum is the place to find people who may know the answers. I'll move your thread there and leave you a short term redirect to follow from the forum.

 

My best, HB

Thank you! Was not sure as it relates more to the practice of a private dentist.

[honeybee13]

Thank you! Was not sure as it relates more to the practice of a private dentist.

 

I understand, but this is probably the nearest forum for what you're asking.

 

HB

[Marianne7]

If your dental practice is private then even children under 16 and in full time education have to pay. Is the dentist part private/part NHS? If she/he sees your children as NHS patients, that would be different.

[Goldenleaf]

My question is should he have referred us to the NHS dentist for this work to be carried out due to her age?

 

No, it is up to you to seek out NHS treatment, not for a private dentist to refer you to one. Saying that it is very rare to find a specialist endodontist on the NHS, so even an NHS dentist would probably have to refer you to a private specialist if it was beyond their expertise.

[nolegion]

Mmm…

 

Susie58 reports her dentist said root canal work:-

 

"…was not carried out by NHS and the only way we could have it was private… !"

 

That was what the dentist said in a disciplinary case heard by the General Dental Council last November where the allegations set out below were all found proved:-

 

 

"(ii) in the event that you did not accept Patient A as an NHS patient, fully explain the options for NHS treatment that were available to him when he queried whether the treatment you proposed could be provided under the NHS

 

(b) misled Patient A by incorrectly informing him that:

 

(i) the root canal treatment could not be carried out under the NHS (or words to that effect);

 

(ii) the only type of crown that was available under the NHS was a gold crown (or words to that effect);

 

© failed to inform Patient A that both root canal treatment and a crown at LL6 could be provided as a single course of NHS treatment (Band 3) at a cost to him of £198."

 

 

Mind you, it could scarcely fail to find these facts proved since the relevant appointment was being secretly recorded for a TV documentary, and, in my personal view, the dentist should have been struck off without ceremony.

 

Only by some – again, in my personal view – contorted and irrelevant 'reasoning' did the Profesional conduct Committee, quite unreasonably, let the dentist escape 'by the skin of his teeth.'

 

Full case report, here:-

 

http://www.gdc-uk.org/Membersofpublic/Hearings/Determinations%202012/ADEBIYI%20PCC%20Determination%20-%20Nov%202012.pdf

 

I think you could do everyone a service by dropping the GDC a line, Susie58.

[Goldenleaf]

Susie58 reports her dentist said root canal work:-

 

"…was not carried out by NHS and the only way we could have it was private… !"

 

Wrong!!

 

Suzie58 reports her dentist said "daughter needed specialist treatment and there were absesses forming along the top of her front teeth and she needed to see a endodontist. He said this work was not carried out by NHS and the only way we could have it was private - and pay!"

 

It's all in the wording. There is a big difference between a dentist saying I can't do this treatment on the NHS but I can do it privately and a dentist saying I can't do this treatment at all, but I know someone who can however it will be private.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Goldenleaf

[nolegion]

Goldenleaf. Are you suggesting that a person who has the symptoms Susie58 reports (child or adult) cannot have the work required (root canal, or otherwise) carried out by an NHS dentist?

 

The legal case I have brought here, directly and centrally, and as excerpted, refers to improperly failing to advise a patient that required treatment can be performed on the NHS. From the report of our OP here, such advice was clearly not given.

 

Your statement:

 

"There is a big difference between a dentist saying I can't do this treatment on the NHS but I can do it privately and a dentist saying I can't do this treatment at all, but I know someone who can however it will be private."

 

would appear to be relevant to the principle concerned only in so far as it refers to two examples in which the proper advice is NOT being given.

 

It's all in the wording.

[Goldenleaf]

Nolegion, what I am suggesting is that the dentist the OP is referring to has said that the work should be carried out by a specialist which is not available on the NHS. The OP has NOT said that the dentist told her that root canal treatment was not available on the NHS.

[dent]

Unfortunately It might be difficult to find an NHS dentist with the expertise, equipment and skill to deal with some types of endodontic treatment. Some root treatments can be complicated especially if needed by a young person and the abscesses are down to previous trauma to the teeth. Often they get referred to dental hospitals for treatment or salaried dental services. However waiting lists may be long and access to speedy treatment can be the difference between saving and losing the teeth. £400-£500 is a lot of money but if the teeth have been saved and the the treatment has been done by a specialist endodontist and it is for treating several teeth it does not sound like an unreasonable amount.

Out of interest how many teeth were involved, how many appointments were needed and did the dentist use any special magnifying equipment such as telescope glasses and use rubber dam when doing the treatment?

[nolegion]

Goldenleaf. Are you suggesting that a person who has the symptoms Susie58 reports (child or adult) cannot have the work required (root canal, or otherwise) carried out by an NHS dentist?

 

 

Well?

[Goldenleaf]

Well what?

 

Firstly the dentist in question is private NOT NHS.

Secondly I am saying that there have not been enough symptoms in the OP to either agree or disagree with your statement.

[nolegion]

I rest my case.

 

Susie58. Thank you for a very interesting post, and I hope you will continue to post as regards any devleopments, observations or queries.

[Goldenleaf]

Nolegion I don't know what case you have made.

 

As I keep saying there is a big difference between an NHS dentist saying I can't do this on the NHS but can do it privately and an NHS or private dentist saying I can't do this proceedure, it is beyond my expertise but I can refer you to a specialist who can. Just because treatments are available on the NHS does not mean all cases can be treated by non-specialists.

[dent]

The OP was seeing a completely private dentist so would not have had the option necessarily to refer to an NHS endodontist. There is a real post code lottery as to what services are available depending on what dentists are in the area and what their interests and expertise are. I am not sure many root fillings can be described as "simple" they need time, skill and experience to be done well.

 

The current NHS contract really provides a disincentive to dentists doing complex treatments and especially root treatment even more so if multiple as the dentist gets paid a set fee for providing whatever treatment is needed - so a dentist could spend 30 minutes removing say 4 front teeth and get £x or spend 1-2 hours over several visits, use a lot more materials and equipment and still get paid the same £x to root fill the same 4 teeth. At the end - there is still a risk the treatment might not work and the teeth need to be removed.