Property Debt Collection Ltd PDC chasing me AFTER settlement of advance serv chg

[Beijing3773]

Dear All,

 

After just finished dealing with the Identity Theft problems (my other thread) , here I am again, someone please help me...

 

I own a flat and pay service charge always on time to the Managing Agent. The service charge period run from April to March. I notified the Managing Agent that I was working aborad by email. However, while I was abroad, the new Managing Agent was appointed in April 2013. And they sent me the service charge bills in advance for 01 April 2013 to 31 March 2014. They quickly transferred this to the DCA called Property Debt Colletion Ltd (PDC). Now that I am back in the UK, I saw the reminders and threatening letters so I immediately settled the full amount of service charge directly to the Managing Agent and apologised to them and explaining them that I was abroad and I always pay my service charge and ground rent in advance on time.

 

However, they said, saying sorry is too late and I have to pay for the Arrears Collection Fees, Legal costs, and other DCA costs of £300.

 

What I want to know is that this service charge is for the period April 2013 to March 2014. I settled the full amount in August 2013. Am I legally "Late" for payment?? Is it legal for them to charge me £300 extra costs, just for being late for a few months?

 

I checked my Lease and it says as follows, honestly I dont understand the legal words, somebody please help me..

 

"In pursuance of the said agreement and in consideration of the payment by the Tenant to the Landlord of the Premium and of the Rent and of the convenants on the part of the Tenant hereinafter contained and on the part of the Tenant to be observed and performed the Landlord HEREBY DEMISES unto the Tenant the Demised Premises TOGETHER WITH the rights set out in the Second Schedule hereto but EXCEPTING AND RESERVING the rights set out in the Third Schedule hereto TO HOLD the same unto the Tenant for the Term SUBJECT TO all rights easements privileges restrictions covenants and stipulations of whatever nature affecting the Demised Premises so far as the same are subsisting and capable of being enforced and affect the Demised Premises YEILDING AND PAYING therefore the Rent in advance without any deduction whatsoever on 1st January in each year (the first such payment being a proportionate sum being due on and from the date hereof until 31st December next following) and by way of additional rent the Service Charge as herein provided

Tenant's Covenants I

To pay the Rent at the times and in the manner aforesaid"

Edited August 7, 2013 by Beijing3773

[ericsbrother]

you are due to pay the years ground rent and charges on the 1st of jan for the year.

Nothing about paying a penalty charge to a managing agent. If the agent has not accepted your cheque then send it to the landlord directly and expalin that the agents have refused to accept it and have failed to mitigate any costs suffered by the landlord as a result.

The agents are agents of the landlord, not yours and if they have acted then they can only do what they are told to do. If the landlord says that he doesnt know anything about the matter then there is even less to worry about. Ignore the agents.

How many flats in the building? How many owner occupied? if over 50% get them all together and sack the agents and appint your own or take on the management as a group or company yourselves The threat of this causes the agents to behave remarkably well..

[renegadeimp]

Those are penalty charges and iirc they arent enforceable.

 

Do you have a copy of the t&cs from the agent? If there is a new agent with new t&cs, then you should have been notified. They cannot simply add it on as a money making [problem].

[Beijing3773]

Dear Ericsbrother

 

Thanks very much for your advice. I made a payment via online banking and the Managing Agent accepted it! Now they are asking the extra £300 for paying late for nearly four months. They are asking this via the DCA called Property Debt Collection Ltd PDC.

 

To be honest it is difficult for me to pay the lum sum amount £1500 in advance for 2013/2014 period. The Managing Agent do not accept the direct debit payments. However, I immediately pay this amount, because I dont want to get into trouble. However, I believe that it is unfair to be charged £300 for legal costs.

 

I found another paragraph from the Lease (the lease was signed in 2004):

 

"Tenant's Convenants II

 

To pay to the Management Company on the date hereof the sum of £250 on account of Service Charge to the next following 31st March and thereafter on 1st April in each year such sum as the Management Company shall consider is fair and reasonable on account of the Service Charge and forthwith on receipt of the Certificate to pay to the Management Company any balance of the Service Charge then found to be owing PROVIDED ALWAYS that any overdue Service Charge may be recovered by the Landlord as if the same were rent in arrears"

 

Does this mean that the Advance Service Charge must be paid on the exact date of 1st April?

Edited August 7, 2013 by Beijing3773

[Beijing3773]

Dear Renegadeimp

 

No I do not have any t&cs from this new agent nor the agent before them. Thank you so much for your advice.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes, that is fine BUT the charges demanded are ridiculous and unless there is a specific clause stating that these fees form part of your tenancy agreement, tough tell them you will not pay, particularly as the previous 'agent' had been informed of your absence.

[Surfer01]

It reads that they are trying to con you with unenforceable charges. I doubt very much if they would even consider doing court as they would look a bit foolish especially if you ask for a breakdown of the charges and how they arrived at the figure!

[Beijing3773]

Thanks Everyone for your replies. I was feeling so down. Here is their breakdown,

 

Arrears Collection Fee £60+VAT

Instruction Fee to DCA £70+VAT

DCA fee £140+VAT

All together £324

 

I will write to them as per BRIGADIER2JCS' advice.

[Beijing3773]

I will write to them as per BRIGADIER2JCS' advice.

 

The MA replied to me as follows:

"Unfortunately we are unable to remove the legal fees due to the time that has lapsed since you making contact with us"

I read the letter from DCA again and noticed that they mentioned the completely different MA in the letter. I did some research but my MA and the MA in the letter are not related in any way. I guess it is just typo error, or can I use it against them?

I have emailed serveral time to DCA that I made the payment directly to MA but no reply so far. Should I write them by post? Or is it MA's responsiblity to contact to DCA about my payment?

[2Grumpy]

Have you thought of asking for a full explanation of why they required legal advice when they should have known that you were abroad and that you have previously been asked to pay on 1st April.

 

I would explain that I could not consider making any payment without seeing a copy of the invoice and the advice received and whether that related to several people or just you

[Beijing3773]

Have you thought of asking for a full explanation of why they required legal advice when they should have known that you were abroad and that you have previously been asked to pay on 1st April.

 

I would explain that I could not consider making any payment without seeing a copy of the invoice and the advice received and whether that related to several people or just you

 

Thank you so much 2Grumpy, I did provide them a copy of the letter I wrote - informing the previous Managing Agent in Jan that I'd be gone for months and my alternative address. So right now, the MA reduced their arrear collection fees but they are still pending to remove the instruction fee that they paid to DCA and the DCA fee which is about £250. They said it is not their fault because previous MA didn't provide them with my updated address when they took over.

[Beijing3773]

It reads that they are trying to con you with unenforceable charges.

 

Those are penalty charges and iirc they arent enforceable..

 

Dear Surfer and Renegade, Where can I find that these charges are unenforceable?? Can you please please help me?

 

The updated situation: The MA has apologised and dropped their fees but DCA is sending me this letter:

"Our fees of £178.00 remain outstanding. We trust this is merely an oversight on your part and request payment is made within seven days of the date of this letter. Where payment is not made, solicitors will be instructed to act in taking debt recovery proceedings in the County Court. Should court proceedings commence, the court fee and solicitor’s costs will be added to the arrears and any judgment entered against you may prejudice your ability to obtain credit."

 

Should I go to LVT? or OFT?

[renegadeimp]

Thanks Everyone for your replies. I was feeling so down. Here is their breakdown,

 

Arrears Collection Fee £60+VAT

Instruction Fee to DCA £70+VAT

DCA fee £140+VAT

All together £324

 

I will write to them as per BRIGADIER2JCS' advice.

 

 

All of those are unlawful, unenforceable and fully reclaimable. Many DCA's have tried exactly the same thing

[Beijing3773]

Dear Renegade, Thank you so much for being supportive. What should I do next? I want to write them back that their DCA fee is unenforceable? Is there any template or sample letter that I can quote of?

[ericsbrother]

the covenant tells you to pay £250 upfront and any other charges that are reasonable thereafter, although how soon after is down to the agents. their charges must be reasonable so ask for details of any expected costs and how much goes into a sinking fund. The latter should not be excessive considering the age of the building and planned works.

As for paying the £300 demanded by the debt collectors- they can go whistle. You dont owe anything and they are just hoping you will pay otherwise the managing agents will have to cough up themselvs. Check next years charges when they arrive to make sure that they havent been added to your or everyones bills.

[Surfer01]

If this went to court you may be charged with culpable homicide due to the judge dying while laughing at the DCA's demand for fees!

[Beijing3773]

the covenant tells you to pay £250 upfront and any other charges that are reasonable thereafter, although how soon after is down to the agents.

 

Oh now I c, gosh this is totally different from what I translated and understood. I thought I needed to pay £250 in 2004 (the time I bought the flat. Gosh, I m so ignorant and dumb. No wonder I frequently get into trouble. Thank you so much Erics!

[Beijing3773]

If this went to court you may be charged with culpable homicide due to the judge dying while laughing at the DCA's demand for fees!

 

Thank u for make me smile, I have been so stressed with ID theft and this Serv Chg thing.

[Beijing3773]

Good News:whoo:DCA agreed to waive the fees so my account is clearrrrr.... Thank you so much everyone. You all are very kind and helpful.. Wishing you the best!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Good result!!!