Mother's Debt with Provident/C. K. Edrupt & Co.

[TheLion]

Here is a brief overview of the situation:

 

A few years ago my mother, who was suffering with just severe anxiety/depression, took out a loan with Provident Personal Credit Limited. She was in receipt of just ESA (WRAG component).

 

Just over a year ago she was at our house and burst into tears.

I asked her what was wrong and discovered to my horror that Provident had been taking over £172 per month

from her in repayment of a now £3000+ loan.

It meant that she was paying over 50% of her fornightly income, before the deduction of gas, electric, food etcetera.

 

This can't be right I thought as I have been informed in the past by Provident agents

that they are not allowed to loan money to a person when they only have £30 per week left after deducting the above.

 

So, I sent them a leter, along with a budget sheet and offer of repayment at £10 per month,

which is all my mother could afford.

They accepted it, after a bit of mssing around, and all was fine.

 

August last year my mother had a stroke that has left her with many ongoing health problems, including post-stroke vascular dementia.

 

Bear in mind that provident have been told not to phone or visit my mothe, and that all correspondance must be in writing.

 

Well in July she received a phone call from some cretin at the local office who as far as she could recall

wanted to discuss the repayment of her loan, which she is repaying.

This made her very stressed as she could not understand what the cretin was on about.

 

I phoned the local Provident office and enquired into who had contacted my mother

and they completely denied that any contact had taken place.

 

So I checked with BT and discovered that it was them who had called,

and it was from that office that the call had been made.

 

I then sent another leter of complaint.

Their reply completely denies that they phoned her and stated that the debt will now be passed onto C. K. Edrupt & Co.

 

On 02.08.13 my mother received two letters,

headded 'Notice of Acting', from them and they are demanding full repayment of the loan by 09.08.13

or that she fill in another budget sheet.

 

If she fails to do this then they will either commence court action or pass on the account to a DCA.

 

Any advice?

Edited August 5, 2013 by TheLion

[TheLion]

I have just spoken to the Provident Personal Credit to try and get some idea as to what guidelines

they have with regard to lending money.

 

The lady informed me that it is down to the' local offices' to set their own guidelines.

 

I phoned the local office and stated that my mother had about £90 per week,

about £10-15 left after deducting gas, electric, food etcetera

and the lady I spoke to sated that perhaps she should not have been lent the money!!!

 

She states that it is down to the 'agents on the ground' who dealt with my mother,

both of whom are now not with the company strangely, who assess whether or not she could repay a loan of now £3000+.

 

Obviously, unless you are thicker than two short planks the agents should have been able to see that a woman on ESA

could not afford to repay £86 a fortnight, or 50% of her ESA, and still be able to live!!! Irresponsible Lending?

[dx100uk]

well edupt are provi in sheeps clothing anyhow.

 

pers i'd be getting an sar of to provi

 

the local agent would have gotten a healthy commission out of selling that loan.

 

I bet shes had rollover on rollover too.

 

don't forget these muppets have no legal powers anyhow

 

provi will not do court they never do

 

i'd stop paying and tell them to go away off.

 

something smells here.

 

dx

[TheLion]

Sorry to pester but any advice with regard to what to write, or if it is covered by the irresponsible lending guidance from the OFT ( I have looked and think that it maybe), would be of great help.

[TheLion]

Sorry dx, call me thick, but what would the SAR be related to specifically? What would we be demanding or looking for?

[dx100uk]

send them an sar

 

and a letter quoting those guidelines

 

you've done far too much over the phone already

 

you need things in writing for a data trail.

 

dx

[Ell-enn]

Provident do go to court - I have helped 2 people where I work with court claims from Provident.

[dx100uk]

ta el-enn

 

to the op

 

you need all the statements and agreements

 

click the sar

 

that should be covered by the std letter text.

 

dx

[TheLion]

The 'Irresponsible Lending' guidelines'?

[TheLion]

Update:

 

The SAR is going off today.

 

Even though my mother is already in a 'repayment plan' with Provident, Edrupt still want either a) full payment of the outstanding balance by 09.08.13 or b) the return of their 'income and expenditure form' with a first payment by 09.08.13

 

She is going to keep on paying Provident (via their 'Payment Card') what she agreed. I doubt if Edrupt will take this into consideration so any advice on what is likely to happen if she does not supply/give them what they want?

[Jam_Buttie]

Pay these fools £1.00 per month. End of.

 

As for the I&E - CK Headache have no legal powers to ask to see it.

[TheLion]

UPDATE:

 

My mother received a letter on 22.08.13, it was dated 16.08.13, from C. K. Edrupt.

 

There is a heading of 'NOTICE OF INTENDED ACTION'.

 

It states that as they have received no reply to their last letter(s) they have assumed that she does not intend to repay her account.

 

This is followed up by threats, which may happen, should she fail to contact them by 30.08.1,3 of lagal action or reffering the account to a DCA.

 

This is insane as she is still repaying what she, and Provident agreed, to Provident, via their payment card, every month. The latest payment went off last week.

 

The SAR was sent on 06.08.13 bwe have heard no reply yet.

 

It makes me laugh because Edrupt are completely ignoring the fact that my mother is vulnerable due to her mental and physical health, which they must be aware of as they are part of Provident.

 

Any advice?

[renegadeimp]

Ignore it. It is a threatogram.

[TheLion]

UPDATE:

 

It seems that the SAR has conviently gone missing. The first time we send seomething to Provident head office, rather than the local branch, and it does not arrive. Have checked 'track & trace' and also 'Post Office Counters', with regard to checking to see if the postal order was cashed, and there is nothing to report.

 

Should we send another SAR? Perhaps to either the local branch or maybe Edrupt? Any advice?

[TheLion]

UPDATE:

 

Have sent off another SAR to Provident. Hopefully it will not go missing like the last one.

[renegadeimp]

I wouldnt have sent a second one. If you have proof they recieved the first, then you send the non compliance letter. If they still dont give you the info, then you take them to court.

 

If you send a creditor any letters by royal mail, please use recorded delivery.

[TheLion]

The first SAR, like the latest one, was sent by recorded, signed for, delivery. I have checked several times with regard to delivery and the 'track & trace' states 'still being processed through the network'. Royal Mail believe that it could be lost and as of today no-one has cashed the postal order.

 

I have had experiences in the past where the 'track & trace' states as above where the letter has been delivered because I have had a reply that directly relates to it.

 

Not sure what has happened really. It could be lost, it could have been delivered with no signiture being taken which would allow Provident to bin it or it could be in the process of being fulfilled. But if the latest SAR goes AWOL then something must be awry.

[TheLion]

UPDATE:

 

Received a reply to the SAR today.

 

They have left out the details of the phone call that my mother received this July.

 

They have left out copies of the Pro-Rata and Budget Sheet that we sent them in March, which outlined my mothers health.

 

And to top it off,

 

they have sent us a copy of a loan agreemtn from Modrice in the Czech Republic.

 

Now I have their address, referrence numbers etcetera.

 

Any advice?

[citizenB]

UPDATE:

 

Received a reply to the SAR today. They have left out the details of the phone call that my mother received this July. They have left out copies of the Pro-Rata and Budget Sheet that we sent them in March, which outline my mothers health. And to top it off, they have sent us a copy of a loan agreemtn from Modrice in the Czech Republic. Now I have their address, referrence numbers etcetera.

 

Any advice?

 

You should send a further letter advising that they have failed to comply fully with your Subject Access Request. It is a request for ALL data and they are not to pick and choose what information they provide.

 

You should also point out to them that they have included confidential details by way of a loan agreement in respect of someone else (and you will be contacting the Information Commissioner about this abuse of DPA).

 

Give them a further 14 days to provide the missing information, after which time you will be making a complaint to the Information Commissioner.

[TheLion]

Letter done and going off tomorrow, recorded delivery of course

[citizenB]

[TheLion]

UPDATE:

 

I have just discovered in the SAR something really odd with regard to two loans for which they have listed my mother's income. Note that there are more than two loans but only those below have any income related to them:

 

• In March 2011 they have listed my mother's weekly income as £120 per week.
  
• In October 2011 they have listed my mother's weekly income as £390 per week!!!
  

At the time of these loans my mother was only reveiving ESA with WRAG component,with a deduction for her water rates coming out of it. This left her with about £84 per week.

 

The two loans above were done by different agents. They have both listed on the related forms that she is divorced, with no dependents and unemployed.

 

After speaking to my mother she informed me that all she can remember is that they, the agents, used to ask her about her income. She would inform them that she could not remember how much exactly she got per week so they would just write a number down.

 

Any advice?

 

Please bear in mind that prior to her stroke, and the post-stroke vascular dementia that she now has, she suffered with acute depression/anxiety and her memory was already atrocious.

[TheLion]

ADDITION TO LAST POST:

 

Mother received another letter today from Edrupt. They are stating that as she has ignored the previous letters they have now been instructed to take further steps to recover the debt. If she wants to avoid said steps then she must contact the 'litigation team' immediately. Also just noticed that they have not deducted the payment made in August 2013 from the outstanding balance!!!

[citizenB]

I think you need to get this harassment stopped and now.

 

I am assuming you have a budget sheet for your Mother and you have an idea of her disposable income.

 

I am wondering if you should send a formal complaint to both the Provident and the DCA and point out that there appears to be some rather interesting points discovered from the SAR whereby it would seem they Agents have misrepresented your Mother's income, despite being aware that she was on benefits, in order to maximise their commissions.

 

That you believe there has been a serious breach of the Lending Code perpetrated on a vulnerable woman.

 

That unless they accept that your Mother is in serious financial hardship and accept the sum being offered that you will be taking your complaint further to the Financial Ombudsman and also providing your complaint to the FCA.

 

You might want to obtain a Letter of Authority to act on your Mother's behalf in order to prevent further harassment of her.

 

I will send out some S.O.S so hang in there

[Peterbard]

This situation cannot be allowed to continue. Your mother is effectively being harrassed for money she should never have been lent.

 

IMO, the very first thing you should do is get, with your mother's consent, lasting Power of Attorney over her affairs. This way, all correspondence can be sent to you, and the dementia is not a condition which is going to improve. This protects your Mum from having to cope with the stress which is not going to help her.

 

If she was being treated for her mental health issues prior to taking out the loan, I would seriously consider finding a FREE money adviser (CAB or similar) to complete the MALG forms asking for the debt to be written off. Scroll to the bottom of the page. Part of this has to be completed by a medic.

 

I would also write to them citing this case:

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/882.html

 

and a letter along these lines:

 

Dear Sir,

 

Your Ref: abc123

 

I am writing in relation to the above account to place you on notice that your company is causing me alarm and distress due to the frequency of the telephone calls and written communications I am receiving.

 

Whenever the telephone rings or a letter drops through the letterbox, I am left feeling anxious and ill at the prospect of speaking again with your company as I have already repeatedly explained that I am unable to pay any/more money per month towards this account. Please be clear that these communications go beyond a simple irritation or an unwanted interference, they fall clearly within the definition of Harassment.

 

I have made it clear to your company that I do not have the funds to pay you what you are asking. I have asked for these calls to cease however I have been told by your staff they will continue to contact me, even though I have made it clear that I do not wish to discuss this matter further via the telephone, I want no more written communication and have already submitted my Income and Expenditure and agreed a repayment plan with you. Still you continue to harrass me.

 

I have received calls / letters from …………………… On the following dates:

1)

2)

3)

 

I require you to ensure that all communications are secured and protected, and above all are in no way tampered with as they will be key evidence in a claim which I am preparing to bring against your company. Destruction of these records may lead to contempt of court proceedings being brought against you.

 

I require these communications to cease with immediate effect; I will not discuss this matter with your company by telephone. I draw your attention to the Court of Appeal ruling in Roberts v Bank of Scotland PLC (Rev1) [2013] EWCA Civ 882 and in particular paragraph 37 & 38 of the Judgment. The court made it clear that the existence of a debt does not allow a creditor to persist in harassing the debtor.

 

I require you to confirm by return that you have records of everything mentioned above. I require also that you confirm that unnecessary communications will cease with immediate effect. Relevant numbers to remove from your system are listed below:

 

If you persist in telephoning me, I will issue an application for an injunction under The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and I shall also seek damages for the same on the principles laid down in Roberts v Bank of Scotland [2013].

 

I trust you will treat this as a matter of extreme urgency.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

XXXXXX

 

 

In addition to the above, I would send a separate letter asking for a copy of their Policy on Responsible Lending. THIS LINK provides plenty of information on this subject.

 

Finally, I would phone them in a recorded call, get your Mum to give permission for Provident to speak to you, and ask them for an assurance that ALL further communications be directly with you. I would also reduce payments down to a level which your Mum can afford, even if it is only £1 per week.

 

There's a fair bit to do there, and some of it is looking not only at this issue, but looking to protect your Mum into the future.