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Stuck with next move with HFC PPI after getting SAR info back


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Hey all,

 

Waaay back in 1997 i took out my first loan with Beneficial Bank.

At the time i was told when offered PPI that i might not get the loan if i didnt take it

- I was in a full time job that gave me 6 months full sick pay then 6 months half pay if needed.

Anyhow - just the not getting the loan part if not taken is enough to be mis sold correct??

 

What i didnt realise was that i renewed the loans to the tune of 5 times no less! :!: each and everytime with PPI on it.

I was never offered any other advice, the figures they quoted at the times just included the ppi on top! :x

 

Now i have attached the signed loan forms bits from the last 3 times (first 2 they have no records for apart from Acc numbers)

and also a form for what looks like a insurance policy schedule for payment

- however the figures on it dont match with the loan it was for

- £338.76 on that form but its for the loan where £171.36 is shown for ppi???

So it has confused me completely!!

 

I have tried to do the spreadsheet to work out figures to claim for, but without the first 2 loan amounts i dont see how i can do it?

 

As you can see

- the total for ppi and interest paid out totals £4139.52!!!!

and thats without the first 2 loans and does not include that £338 figure as i dont know what thats for?????

I see 8% mentioned - is that just 8% of the £4139??

 

Should i just send a complaint letter off to (now) HSBC and a FOS questionaire and see what they come back with???

I didnt expect them to send me such a good amount of info to be honest

- the forms i have uploaded below are priceless to me now!

 

Any help greatly appreciated as to best route next :|

 

Thanks in advance..

 

Adam

 

ps - i hope the attachments are viewable!!! :-)

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I will send S.O.S. to the guys who know what to do with these :)

 

Please be aware, It is a lovely day and all the guys are volunteers, so it might be a little later on before they pop in :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks citizenB, thats fine.. i have left it for so long anyway - i just appreciate any help. I like to read and not post, but bit stuck.. Having read a few other cases - can i just say that i never received any rebate for the ppi's after refinancing them.. EVER! Does this mean a different approach?

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?318646-PPI-Single-Premium-Your-questions-answered

 

The link above takes you to a Q & A for Single Premium policies which yours appear to be.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

 

The link above takes you to the spread sheets that you will require.

 

TBH, I really don't know too much about the way these rollover loans work, I am pretty certain ims21 has posted a detailed explanation on another cagger's thread, if I can find it, I will pop a link here so that you can have a read whilst you wait for someone who knows what they are talking about :lol:

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks dx - i had read the 1989 success one, i will give them a shout. I gave the spreadsheet a go however with the fact that a loan got paid off early i got stuck - as the dates would not match up. I will defo need some help on that one.

 

Also just for info to clarify..

 

Loan 1 - Acc Number only - No other details at all (amounts/timeframes etc..)

 

Loan 2 - Acc Number only - No other details at all (amounts/timeframes etc..) EXCEPT - Loan 3 cleared this to value of £926.97

 

Loan 3 - All details, cleared off loan 2

 

Loan 4 - All Details - Fresh loan as Loan 3 was fully paid up

 

Loan 5 - All details - Cleared loan 4, was fully paid off in Sep 2006.

 

And thats where i stand. I have no bank statements.

 

I did miss the odd payment (i wasnt very good with money), however i got there in the end (never went to debt recovery).

 

Its the spreadsheet i will need help with if possible. Also i never got any rebate persay for excess ppi paid off, but can i tell if the amount cleared off by next loan was reduced to accommodate this rebate?? All i have is the amount they said and no breakdown?

 

Appreciate all help here.. thanks

Edited by Wingnutta77
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Hi Wingnutta

This is the same story as mine, my thread may help with the spreadsheets? I am going to send the claimin tomorrow as they have not cashed the cheque for SAR and deadline is Tuesday. We do have all the agreements and statements going back to 1994 so if you need to any T&C I may be able to help.

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Thanks dx - i had read the 1989 success one, i will give them a shout. I gave the spreadsheet a go however with the fact that a loan got paid off early i got stuck - as the dates would not match up. I will defo need some help on that one.

 

Also just for info to clarify..

 

Loan 1 - Acc Number only - No other details at all (amounts/timeframes etc..)

 

Loan 2 - Acc Number only - No other details at all (amounts/timeframes etc..) EXCEPT - Loan 3 cleared this to value of £926.97

 

Loan 3 - All details, cleared off loan 2

 

Loan 4 - All Details - Fresh loan as Loan 3 was fully paid up

 

Loan 5 - All details - Cleared loan 4, was fully paid off in Sep 2006.

 

And thats where i stand. I have no bank statements at all.

 

I did miss the odd payment (i wasnt very good with money but i did catch up when needed), however i got there in the end (never went to debt recovery).

 

Its the spreadsheet i will need help with if possible. Also i never got any rebate persay for excess ppi paid off, but can i tell if the amount cleared off by next loan was reduced to accommodate this rebate?? All i have is the amount they said and no breakdown?

 

Appreciate all help here.. thanks

Edited by Wingnutta77
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OK i think loan 5 was easy so is this spreadsheet right?? I defo didnt make all the payments on the due date - so does this make the spreadsheet wrong?.. As i say - no bank statements are available :sorry:

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as long as you made the payments

as such exact dates are not necessary.

 

i'm hoping dave might pop in

hes a spreadsheet wizard I've not ideally got the time to calc the lot.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks Dx.. i dont mind doing the spreadsheets - i just cant wrap my head round it. I have a transaction history for Loan 5 in the SAR, but not for any other of the loans which i find strange.. but i have uploaded them anyway.. its all just a mess! :sad:

 

As loan 4 was a fresh start i am thinking this and 5 might not be so difficult but me thinks i might have to write off claiming for loans 1 and 2?

 

The bit i cant do spreadsheet for is loan 4 as it only ran for 10 months before i refinanced - so is it just a small spreadsheet of 10 payments (even though it was due to run for 48? - and i probably paid for all of it )

 

Adam

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Hey all,

Now i have attached the signed loan forms bits from the last 3 times (first 2 they have no records for apart from Acc numbers)

and also a form for what looks like a insurance policy schedule for payment

- however the figures on it dont match with the loan it was for

- £338.76 on that form but its for the loan where £171.36 is shown for ppi???

So it has confused me completely!!

 

Ok the first 2 loans you had with them,

if you don't have any documents forget it - they have destroyed all the old loans forms they held.

 

Now the 3rd loan june 2000, the doc that states £338.76

this could have been a loan for life insurance ect,

you say you have some doc's check them to see if that figure shows up anywhere.

 

I had one like that and it was called take 5 and it was a life insurance.

 

If you can scan all other docs you have and post them here

 

I have done a StatIntSheet for this one but if there is an insurance policy we need to add it to this claim

 

I'm working on the other for you

dave

HFC go get them:-)

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look ok

 

urm 1st time ive seen statements like that dave

are they using a new system?

 

data from 2001 without question?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Davisb you my friend are fast becoming a legend on here! :wink:

 

Ok, I did loans 4 and 5 seperately and they are exactly the same as you have - except yours are in one speadsheet and not 2.. but the figures are all certainly right. So are we thinking here that 4 and 5 are now done and ready to go?

 

As for loans 1 and 2, yeah i kinda figured i would have to dump them - thats fine - they were the smallest anyway.. that will teach me not to keep records!

 

Now loan 3..

 

That figure of £338 does not appear anywhere else! - its a total seperate signed agreement - for what i dont know!

 

I have looked through the rest of the SAR paperwork that i was sent - and i have no other information at all regarding this loan.

 

HOWEVER! - i did have an old credit report which had some info regarding loan 3 (equifax) - but i think it confuses the issue more??? :-(

 

Attached is the sheet that shows the payments from June 2000 were for £119 - which is the loan 3 total figure as shown of £101.16 + the figure of £18.82 (£119.98) - which to me proves that it WAS another bloomin insurance policy (if only i could go back and royally smack myself round the head!!! :mad2:). Can i just confirm that the account number on loan 3 and the account number on that policy are the same!

 

Heres where a curve ball gets thrown - the next entry on the credit file is where loan 3 stopped at £119 after 5 months and then went up to £176 a month for another 24 it says!!!! :!: - but it was paid up by 03/2001 in full (loan 4 was a fresh start) - Although june 2000 - march 2001 is NOT 18 months - but loan 4 had NO money used to pay off loan 3 - it clearly says that!

 

Now my thinking here is that it was a simple rejig of the figures (i probably got behind) and that they just upped my payments for remaining time to clear the loan ontime. It sounds familiar the more i think about it - but im not certain!

 

As dx said that as long as payments were made, dates not a huge issue - and the loan was settled, can we not just add the £18.82 to the £9.52 of loan 3 for the duration of the loan which was 18 months?? - or is that too easy?? :wink:

 

I just dont know best way to approach loan 3! :-(

 

Hope i havent confused you more pal.. words cannot express how grateful i am!

 

Adam

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never seen it in that format

 

its almost like a program download

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Davisb you my friend are fast becoming a legend on here! :wink:

Don't think so

 

Now loan 3..

 

That figure of £338 does not appear anywhere else! - its a total seperate signed agreement - for what i dont know

 

I'm sure this will be a loan they got you to take out to buy a life insurance. Have a good look at all of your insurance policy's you normally find the payment details at the back of the doc, You will need this to prove that the loan for this purpose.

 

You do know this is the start of a long battle with them, makesure whatever you send them it’s sent recorded. They will try to fob you off but you will win in the end but it might take a while.

david

HFC go get them:-)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey all...

been a bit tied up recently with work so was unable to give my full attention.

 

i was going back through the paperwork and i have come across 2 bits of paper that worry me. (Scanner broken at the moment so cant upload)

 

One is an account setup sheet, which explains cheque numbers etc..

but there is a box which i HAVE signed (declaration) that states

"i/we understand that all of these insurance policies are optional and not a condition of any loan facility" - eek...

Now what they have always told me was that i needed it, but is this box now their get-out-of-jail card?

 

Also another sheet is a summary of the loan.

This also has the "you loan is protected by ppi", ".. main benefits and exclusions have been explained to you"

- I have signed this too!!

*note - the I/We bits have not been deleted as necessary - and there is 3 of them all untouched?

MAke a difference??

 

Now, it was always a case of sign here here and here so i did (never really read anything as i went by what they said.

...i admit i just wanted the money and get on with it.

. but i was never TOLD that i didnt have to have the ppi

- was always told i needed the ppi to get the loan,

but thats now my word against theirs with these sheets.

 

They are all for the big final loan too these sheets

 

..So question is - do i carry on???

 

Do i still have a potential claim??

 

or am i now dead in the water?

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Yes you keep going, no it's not dead in the water, Remember you had to take out the ppi to get the loan and stick to that.

You will win in the end but mght take a while but don't be fobbed off by them. Any questions just ask here

Dave

HFC go get them:-)

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Take a look at my thread here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?380391-Help-needed-with-HFC-claim-please

 

HFC upheld all my loans that had upfront PPI added to them. The only ones that I'm having problems with are the ones that are monthly PPI as they want statements for everything I've paid. I said that I was very strongly advised to have the Life Insurance and PPI despite already having lots of cover already in place. I also gave them a huge document of reasons that they had been fined, with reasons that I felt related to my loans.

 

Once they stopped messing me around, they upheld the loans pretty quickly. They sent account set up sheets for me to, but I felt they worked in my favour, showing on some the cover we already had! Keep going. Look up the reasons they were fined and tailor it to your circumstances.

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