Ticket for parking on curb... But road sign permits.

[Boat]

I just received a ticket for "parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath"

 

Yes, my vehicle was parked on the curb (pic 1), however I did this because the road sign (in front of me) instructed me to (see pic 2)

 

As you can see from pic 3 other vehicles on the street had done the same.

 

After getting the PCN I was dumbfounded so I took pics and looked around. I then notice that directly behind the the road sign (pic 2) was another road sign which said no parking on the road. However the row of cars (pic 3) had all parked with their wheels on the road.

 

I will appeal this PCN, however I like you opinion on whether I am right or wrong.

 

 

Pic 1

 

Pic 2

 

Pic 3

[green_and_mean]

The photos are a bit random can you link to google street view?

[Boat]

absolutely.

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Hobart+Gardens,+Croydon&hl=en&ll=51.401346,-0.095755&spn=0.000949,0.002642&sll=51.401286,-0.096395&sspn=0.000955,0.002642&oq=hobart&hnear=Hobart+Gardens,+Croydon,+Greater+London,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.401286,-0.096395&panoid=XS2tzfGZRjgUdiu9teGjIg&cbp=12,56.21,,0,3.25

 

For reference I was parked where the blue focus is...

 

I assume that the focus is a resident of that road as that vehicle is seen in the pics that I took.

[green_and_mean]

Common mistake the sign permits parking on footway BEYOND the sign and not in front of it if you view from other direction you will see why PCN was issued. http://goo.gl/maps/v9adV

[Boat]

So i don't have a leg to stand on?

 

Edit

 

i'll take that as a no.

 

in any case thanks for your help.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Boat

[Jamberson]

You can always appeal on the basis of an honest mistake. They might accept it.

[ericsbrother]

what is on the other side of the sign?

[Jamberson]

no parking on the pavement

[TheBogsDollocks]

The appeal letter below has been successful.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Following receipt of the penalty charge notice I have consulted the DfT published Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3. On investigation is has become apparent that the Council has failed to sign the footway parking allowance in accordance with DfT guidance.

 

Under paragraph 8.12 the DfT clearly provides Councils with a direct instruction;

 

“Where bay markings are not provided, the start of footway parking should always be indicated by diagram 667 or 668, with arrows, mounted parallel to the kerb.”

 

The photographic evidence available to the Council will confirm that the Council has ignored this clear instruction from the DfT. In this instance the prohibition was signed using diagram 668 facing oncoming traffic. However, the Council were required by the DfT to place the sign parallel to the kerb and to include a directional arrow.

 

This instruction from the DfT was for a particular reason. It was to avoid drivers being misled and parking in advance of where footway parking is permitted. Again I refer you to paragraph 8.12;

 

“If the signs were to face oncoming traffic (without arrows), they could be mistaken for repeater signs, tempting drivers to park in advance of them where footway parking is prohibited.”

 

Quite clearly the DfT were aware that the circumstance that happened on this occasion was likely to occur if the signage was not placed in the manner they prescribe. The only reason I parked in the manner that I did was due to being misled by the signage that the Council had failed to place in accordance with paragraph 8.12 of the Traffic Signs Manual Chapter 3.

 

The DfT has published further guidance for the benefit of Local Authorities. This publication is known as the “Operational Guidance to Local Authorities” and this gives further clarification in regard to traffic signs.

 

Annex D1: All local authorities are responsible for the accuracy and condition of the traffic signs and road markings that identify parking restrictions in their area. The traffic signs and road markings must conform strictly to the relevant regulations (currently the Traffic SignsRegulations and General Directions 2002 – TSRGD – and subsequent amendments) or have special authorisation from DfT. They should also conform to the guidance set out in Chapters 3 and 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual.

 

I trust the Council will accept that on this occasion the footway parking signage does not conform to the guidance set out and as such the Council will act as directed by Annex D2 of the DfT Operational Guidance to Local Authorities;

 

“PCNs may not be valid if they are issued where traffic signs and road markings are incorrect or in poor condition. Representations demonstrating this should be accepted.”

 

Annex D2 above gives clear and precise instruction. I have demonstrated that the footway parking signage inadequacy caused me to park in contravention and therefore I require the council to acknowledge their signing error and confirm that this penalty charge will be cancelled forthwith.

[Boat]

@TheBogsDollocks I love you!

 

I will appeal and report on how I get on. Btw do you have any idea on the sucess rate with this appeal?

 

 

You can always appeal on the basis of an honest mistake. They might accept it.

Where I am from, they will laugh at that reasoning

 

 

My council are some money grubbing bas... Ummm I better stop.

[Jamberson]

 

Where I am from, they will laugh at that reasoning

 

 

Well, it seems you have a better option anyway. Councils are advised to use discretion though - appeals can sometimes work, but I appreciate that things are getting tougher all the time.

 

I read in the Evening Standard tonight that a parking space in London is on sale right now for £300,000. Unbelievable!

[TheBogsDollocks]

@TheBogsDollocks I love you!

 

Btw do you have any idea on the sucess rate with this appeal?

 

As far as I know it has always been successful but usually any signing error is denied by the council at the informal and formal appeal stage. Councils never like to admit they've done something wrong. It is usually when the appeal is made to the adjudicator that the council suddenly backtrack and don't contest and the penalty charge gets cancelled. If they do that here then obviously it is about trying to get their grubby hands on your money rather than honest enforcement. Lets see how they respond.

[Jamberson]

As far as I know it has always been successful but usually any signing error is denied by the council at the informal and formal appeal stage. Councils never like to admit they've done something wrong. It is usually when the appeal is made to the adjudicator that the council suddenly backtrack and don't contest and the penalty charge gets cancelled. If they do that here then obviously it is about trying to get their grubby hands on your money rather than honest enforcement. Lets see how they respond.

 

In my experience, I think they are more likely to refuse appeals like that simply because the staff aren't trained properly. Half of them where I used to work didn't know anything about sign regulations. Unable to judge the details of the case, they would tend to enforce it on the assumption that the signs are probably right and the motorist probably trying it on. Send the letter out and crack on with the next one, half asleep.

 

Sad, but that's how the system seems to work.

[Boat]

As Jamberson suggested, my appeal has just been rejected.

 

I will be back with more info.