TBI Finance chasing old year 2000 CCJ - they wont go away!!

[yorkshirecagger]

Hi I have been dealing with TBI finance recently over a debt they claim I owe on an old account. It all started off with Merit Finance contacting me in 2010 ten years or so after the judgement,

 

This is clearly statute barred but they claim this is not the case and constantly pursue me.

 

I’ve laid out a full sequence of events below quoting what they are saying, Please help me with what I need to do to stop them bothering me, this is ruining my life, my girlfriend has left me now she opened one of the letters and saw the alleged balance outstanding.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

The sequence of events is

 

1) A copy document merit sent me says they are pursuing a loan taken out with Imperial Consolidated Financiers Ltd in July 1999

 

2) A copy document merit sent me says payments were made in August 1999 and December 1999

 

3) A copy document merit sent me "request for judgement and reply to admission" shows a CCJ was registered in November 2000

 

4) Merit finance wrote to me in October 2010 requesting payment, they said I must pay I responded saying it must be statute barred and did an SAR on them - I had no response from them at all

 

5) TBI Finance contacted me in March 2013 saying

 

"We write to inform you that, by an agreement dated November 2012, Merit Finance Ltd sold and assigned all their rights, title and interest in, to and under, inter alia, your above Agreement and any related security and any county court judgements to TBI Financial Services LTD"

They asked me to make a proposal to them and they made a request for monthly installments and PAF Payment Alternative form. They said if I didn't respond in 14 days they

 

"would take necessary steps to enforce the judgement obtained against you recorded at court under the claim number at the top of the letter by one or any combination of the following a) attaching your earnings from your employer b) registering a charge on your interest in any house you own c) appointing a court bailiffs to levy on your goods and possessions and subsequently selling them towards settlement of the debt d) rendering you personally bankrupt

 

Any such action will also incur further costs which the court may award against you"

 

6) I wrote to TBI and told them about the letters to Merit finance and that I had no response.

 

7) TBI wrote to me and said

“I note we received a copy of an apparent letter sent to Merit Finance in December requesting a copy of any data held. Be advised that I am in receipt of Merit Finances full file and this letter has never been received by them, despite them been in correspondence with you and replying to a letter dated August 2010 in which you state the account is statute barred and a further letter in November 2010 where you indicate you were not aware of any county court judgement. It is quite clear that Merit tried to resolve the matter with you amicably but without success.”

 

8) They said they would take the steps previously advised in the last letter so I wrote to them in April and said

“ALL CORRESPONDENCE WITH MERIT FINANCE WAS SENT RECORDED DELIVERY.

I always receive assistance with writing letters from my partner and family as well as advice from the local Citizens Advice Bureau. Notes are always taken at meetings.

If you do not stop contacting me I will make a complaint to the financial ombudsman and other authorities about you”

9) They wrote back in April saying they got my letter and it was clear I wasn’t willing to work amicably. They sent me a copy for information of the original credit agreement, details of the court claim, settlement of account showing two payments made in 1999 and a copy of their complaints procedure. They told me they were instructing their solicitors to deal with the situation now.

 

10) I did nothing and received a letter from David Jones Solicitors (same address) in June, they introduced themselves and they reiterated the four points about earnings, interest in any house, court bailiffs and bankruptcy. They said any action would add up costs that a court would award against me. They gave me 7 days.

 

11) I wrote back to David Jones and TBI and said

 

“I dispute any claims made by you or linked companies.

Merit Finance did not respond to my statutory requests for information so I repeat the request to you.

While I acknowledge no debt to your company I would be grateful if you would comply with the following:

 

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject access request

Please would you kindly provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque/Postal Order is payment for the fee relating to my Subject access request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose.

 

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company or with any company you claim to be representing.

 

- Computer screen notes

-. Internal messages or notes

-. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions

-. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external

-. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external

-. Copies of letters

-. All information relating to litigation or pre-litigation

-. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item

-. Copies of all reviews conducted

-. Copies of all other paperwork including all application forms held

-. Copies of any and all documentation issued

-. Any information you hold regarding any court proceedings already undertaken or any pre-litigation information you hold including, but not specifically limited to:

Initial POC

Court judgment information

Court judgment awarded against what debt, and the original lender

When the court judgment awarded

Full details of the original claimant

Any other documents / information in relation to litigation or pre-litigation

- All correspondence sent to all parties with proof of delivery relating to change of ownership of account / debt

I trust that the above is clear and should you be in any doubt as to your obligations as a Data Controller, then I would advise that you consult your corporate counsel.

 

I have enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £10.You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please write to me.

12) David Jones wrote back to me in July and sent a pack with information they said I could have in accordance with sec 7 of the data protection act 1998. They said they trusted I would be making them proposals. They sent me screen notes detailing the full trail of how they went about contacting people at addresses and using agencies that I am not happy about using unscrupulous methods.

13) They didn’t send any copies of transfer of account or ownership or original application forms etc so I wrote back with a tick box for them next to the list of points above asking them to explain why they were unable to send everything of what I asked for.

14) They wrote to me last week saying

“We confirm that our client does not have to provide you with manual records held on file under Section 7 of the data protection act 1998, as these records are not held in a relevant filing system” Then they say they look forward to hearing about proposals to pay.

[dx100uk]

god..

 

it is clearly well statute barred.

 

i'd start a complaint with the FOS

 

and the ICO.

 

and seek compensation for the harassment.

 

dx

[yorkshirecagger]

Thanks for getting back to me DX

How much would you think I could claim realistically?

Could you point me in the direction of a good thread where someone else has done this and won with some letters as examples, this must be a common thing.

[yorkshirecagger]

If you can help me with this and I settle some damages with them I will pay a portion to the site as donation.

Regards

[dx100uk]

I've asked someone to pop in.

 

dx

[yorkshirecagger]

OK brilliant thanks a lot, all the info I have is in the original post so fingers crossed.

[Seminole]

If there's a CCJ then it can't be statute barred as such. However, as the judgement was more than 6 years ago the claimant would have to go to court to seek enforcement and they would have to explain why they hadn't enforced before. It's very unlikely that they would succeed.

 

Amongst the papers they have sent you is there a copy of the county court judgment with the court stamp on it?

 

Is there anything on your credit file? There shouldn't be.

[yorkshirecagger]

Hi Seminole

 

Thanks for getting back to me on this. They give me the impression that they are going to go back to court over it.

 

The copy of the court judgement doesnt have a stamp on it but it looks official. Looking back on old and new credit ref files there is nothing.

 

Is there anything I can do to complain or stop them writing to me or to force them to transparently explain what they are planning on doing?

 

Thanks

[Seminole]

Others may have a different view but I don't think they will get anywhere without an official copy of the judgement and my understanding that is that it must be a stamped copy. Wait for other responses but I would be inclined to ask the solicitor for an official copy. Anyone could rustle up a fake judgement form.

 

Given how long this has been going on I would have expected them to go back to court by now if they were planning to do so. Three years is a very long time for them to have been messing around when they have a judgement and leads me to believe that they aren't going anywhere.

[dx100uk]

and I suspect they are not even the named claimant

 

rare as hens teeth to get a ccj enforced after all these years

and

by a company that was not the original claimant.

 

dx

[yorkshirecagger]

Thanks Seminole

 

I will wait to hear if anyone else comes back to me on this and then if not write to them asking for a court stamped copy of the judgement. All I have now is an 'N225 Request for judgement and reply to admission' and its not been signed but it does have a claim number.

 

TBI told me they took it all on in November 2012 so I agree in 8 months they would have probably done something in court if they were going to.

 

I just wish there was something i could do to force them to be transparent and stop bothering me. They have even sent me details of all the people they have been contacting constantly about me at properties or nearby previous addresses and phone numbers!

[sequenci]

Hello there, do you still have evidence of the original judgment? Just to be sure - they're definitely trying to enforce the original, and not trying to seek judgment for a new CCJ at all?

[Seminole]

There's probably no practical way of stopping them doing this. You could seek advice about an injunction but you run the risk of them using the court process to try to enforce the judgement.

 

 

Thanks Seminole

 

I will wait to hear if anyone else comes back to me on this and then if not write to them asking for a court stamped copy of the judgement. All I have now is an 'N225 Request for judgement and reply to admission' and its not been signed but it does have a claim number.

 

TBI told me they took it all on in November 2012 so I agree in 8 months they would have probably done something in court if they were going to.

 

I just wish there was something i could do to force them to be transparent and stop bothering me. They have even sent me details of all the people they have been contacting constantly about me at properties or nearby previous addresses and phone numbers!

[yorkshirecagger]

Thanks DX, its interesting what you say about them not been the original claimant

and Sequenci, thanks for your help - I cant be sure about whether they are going to try and pursue the original or not.

 

This is worrying - could they open up a new CCJ? !

[ScarletPimpernel]

We have heard of Merit Finance and purchased CCJs before.

 

Even if a judgment was less than 6 years old, Merit or TBI cannot just demand that you pay them. A judgment is an order of the court, and neither Merit nor TBI can vary the terms of it without applying to the court to be substituted as claimant. Whether a court would allow this, especialy after such a passage of time, would be a matter for the court, but as has been mentioned it's unlikely.

[yorkshirecagger]

Seminole, Thanks for your latest reply,

I understand what your saying so perhaps there is nothing I can do to force transparency or to question them on their intentions.

[2Grumpy]

A request for judgement doesn't sound like a real judgement to me!

 

It also looks as though they aren't the claimant anyway

 

Keep the list of people that they have contacted - you had already replied so there was no purpose to contacting other people apart from to embarrass you

[yorkshirecagger]

Thanks Scarlet Pimpernel

 

Would you recommend me writing to them and saying something along the lines of what you say

 

"A judgment is an order of the court, and neither Merit nor TBI can vary the terms of it without applying to the court to be substituted as claimant"

 

That said, perhaps a letter like this if seen by the court could infuriate them and they may grant TBI and their solicitors the right to claim?

 

Regards

[yorkshirecagger]

Thanks for your help 2grumpy.

[sequenci]

You might want to contact the court just to ensure that there hasn't been a second judgment obtained without you knowing about it - this is unlikely on various counts. If they have managed to get another judgment you'll be able to have that set aside easy enough.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hello YorkshireCagger,

 

dx100 has asked me to take a look at this for you.

 

I'm just going to read through the thread now.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok

Do you by any chance know what the judgement order stated?

 

The pursuit of a debt this old is should not succeed, if there has been no enforcement action taken since the original judgement order.

 

I now of this company and have seen some cases like this in the past, just going to do a little research then I'll get back to you.

Edited July 31, 2013 by BRIGADIER2JCS

[yorkshirecagger]

Thanks brigadier I hope there is something I can do.

[yorkshirecagger]

Brigadier Iv attached a photo of the court document for you to look at - Ill also type up in brief details of electronic notes and what they say about the enforcement action steps they contain.

Edited July 31, 2013 by yorkshirecagger

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Well I see their 'Frontman' Kevin Edgar is still around so let's try this letter on him, use recorded signed for post and check delivery date.

 

Private & Confidential.

Mr Kevin Edgar

TBI Financial Services Ltd.,

 

 

Date:......................

 

Ref: Use theirs:

 

Dear Mr Edgar,

 

I refer to TBI Financial Services Ltd recent communication regarding a debt relating to a loan from xxxxxxxxxxxxx, taken out on xxxxxxxxx, Please note I do not acknowledge any liability to TBI or any company it may claim to represent.

 

You have stated that a County Court Judgement was allegedly obtained by xxxxxxxxxxxx on x. xx 20xx to the best of my knowledge I have not received any notification of any substitution of the original claimants name with that of TBI Financial Services Ltd.

 

Also to the best of my knowledge no enforcement action has been instigated at any time by any party in regard to this judgement order.

 

I am sure that TBI Financial Services Ltd is aware that it MUST APPLY TO THE COURT to restart any enforcement action on this claim, an event that the court is most unlikely to allow given that xx years have elapsed since the judgement was made and during that period NO ENFORCEMENT ACTION HAS BEEN INSTIGATED.

 

Give the above I must decline to make any payment or acknowledgment of liability in regard to this matter.

 

The Claim made by TBI Financial Services Ltd is therefore rejected, and no further correspondence will be entered into unless/until the company produces unequivocal evidence from a court that I have any liability for this matter, as ''A Request For Judgement''

form in not evidence that a judgement was awarded.

 

Let's see what they come up with send a copy to the solicitors too. by recorded/signed for.

Edited July 31, 2013 by BRIGADIER2JCS