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JTR Collections unpaid CTAX - Notice of Seizure of Goods


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Afternoon all,

 

We have a bit of a situation going on that I really need some advice on.

 

About 2 years ago my wife was working as a self-employed courier.

 

We bought her a transit van to do the job in.

 

What we didn't realise, but did very soon after, was that her driving licence does not entile her to drive the van we bought

(it is a long wheel base transit that is over the weight restriction on her licence).

 

To cut a long story short,

her Dad needed a van to do his job in but had no money to buy one with so we 'lent' him ours,

with a signed agreement that it was still our van,

but it would be registered in his name and he was responsible for the upkeep of the van,

but was not allowed to sell it without our permission.

 

last week we got a phone call from him saying a bailiff had put a notice of seizure of goods

and inventory over unpaid council tax totaling over £4000.

The van is not worth anything like this.

 

Now, we have the original receipt we got from the previous owner of the van,

and we have the signed agreement between my wife and her father.

 

I have left a voice mail message for the baliff's, but nobody has come back to me.

 

We have taken the van back for now and put it in a lockup we have.

 

Are they entitled to take the goods as her Dad's name is on the log-book?

 

Also,

where will they have got the information from that he owns the van, DVLA?

Only asking as he also has a car which they have not put a notice of seizure on,

which was parked outside his house also, just find it very odd.

 

Thanks.

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If he is the registered keeper that should be all that is shown on the DVLA, you have the proof that the van belongs to you.

No doubt the bailffs office will not get the message until Monday.

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It is used for work, but how would he prove it is used as a work vehicle?

 

And, back to the original point, if they have gone to DVLA to check to see if the van is in his name, why have they not put a notice on the car that was outside?

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Okay, well he won't pay, or rather he can't pay. He has about 3 more weeks of work and then he retires. He has savings of zero and next to no income.

 

It is just the tip of the iceberg. We knew nothing really about this all. We knew he was struggling financially, but not to this extent. He confessed he hasn't paid any water bill for about 15 years, council tax is as I say over £4k. He is behind with rent but not sure how much. We have tried giving him advice, but he just won't listen. I think his only option is bankruptcy, but he won't do it.

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Reposess the van, and send a proof of ownership to bailiff and council, a reciept and Stat Dec will do then change details at DVLA. What is the GVW of the transit, as anyone who passes their test after 1997 gets 3.5 tonne entitlement, and that covers most Transits, Sprinters, and Iveco Dailies. If it is over the weight your wife can drive it would have a tachograph fitted.

 

Either way take action to protect your property. there is nothing to stop you "hiring" it back to him or him borrowing to use once it is safe from the bailiffs clutches. You will have to sort the insurance details as well, but would be better than the bailiff having it.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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If its used for work they can not levy on it. Well they can but cart take it if it tools of is trade.

 

Not strictly true, I'm afraid. I wish people would get the facts correct before potentially giving out incorrect advice/info on this site. Frustrating.

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Not strictly true, I'm afraid. I wish people would get the facts correct before potentially giving out incorrect advice/info on this site. Frustrating.

would it have to be insured soley for business for one driver and the van preferably signwritten?

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Sorry clunks did I gey it wronge, I thought if you use it for work they carnt take the van,or tools of the your trade.

 

I've found Ploddertom's post on another thread which saves me having to type a reply. Alot of factors have to be taken in to account to determine whether the vehicle is a tool of the trade.

 

 

Please don't take this the wrong way but most who are self employed or who have use of a vehicle in connection with a business think it is protected - this is not altogether true. Whilst a sign written vehicle belonging to the Acme Joinery Co Ltd is almost guaranteed to be a "protected" vehicle because of the tools that are used in connection with that type of business. In a similar type of manner a salesman from the Acme Carpet Co could lose out as all he has to cart round are a few samples which may fit in a suitcase and public transport/taxi could be used or he could simply hire a car. Each case must be treated on its own merits but a guide can be drawn up:

How is the vehicle insured? - sole business use is best

Who drives it? - should just be 1 sole driver

Is it used for any other purpose apart from business? - may seem a strange question but if you use it socially then you could be in bother

What equipment do you need to transport? - if only a laptop or a few files you could be on dodgy ground

Can your job be done using other forms of transport? - the Courts do not look at what costs you may be put to

 

The classic case that is usually used is that of Sheriff of Bedford & Toseland Building Supplies v Bishop 1993 whereby it was shown that more than 1 person had the use of a digger so therefore it was not classed as a tool of the trade. However I happen to know of a case recently where this was overturned and a seized vehicle returned - as I say each case on its own merits.

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Cheers for all the replies. I called the bailiff again yesterday and she said she would put a note on the account to say the my FIL is not the owner of the vehicle, and as such the van would not be touched.

 

She did ask me for my FIL's telephone number so she could call him to speak to him about the debt. I didn't give her the number obviously. She did say if they can't make some kind of contact within a week or so they will go back to the council and ask to force entry into the property. Keep in mind that council tax is now owed for 4 years (this is the 5th year), how likely is it that the court will give permission to force entry?

 

Thanks.

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There is more chance of the Council applying for a Committal Hearing - cost of which is added to the debt - where he would have to explain why it has not been made or an attempt at paying. If it can be seen to be wilful refusal to pay then the ultimate sanction is prison.

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It's wrong that people should still be thrown in jail fornot paying taxes to the council or government, we are still stuck in the dark ages. Yet you can knock someonedown in a car and kill them and get 2 year suspended sentence ,British justice.

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