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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Incapacity Benefit to ESA migration

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Hello All


I am need of wisdom to help me through the Incapacity Benefit to ESA migration. Back in January I filled in the huge ESA 50. Sent this off. Then I heard nothing until May when I was called into ATOS to have a medical.

They kept me waiting some 40 minutes before I went into for the examination. The examination lasted some 50 minutes

I waited a couple of weeks and then requested the ATOS report which I received.

I heard nothing in writing and I kept telephoning and asking what was happening. Now some considerable time later I received a letter which stated that I had been migrated to ESA and I was to be placed in the work related group.


I read it again and again and then I went through the ATOS report. This summerised that I had chronic illness's and unlikely to recover and unlikely to work in the next two years


However I did note that the ATOS person had put I was capable of walking more than 100 metres without stopping etc.


Thankfully I had my wife with me and at no point was this distance discussed. At no point did I say I could walk that far. I am furious.


I wish I could do 10 - 20 metres without pain and shortness of breath.


I am also being written to by 2 different DWP centres which is confusing things and I received a letter with a decision which was dated in the letter 30 days previous.


I have asked the question why is that and also about the totally wrong and misleading distance recorded by ATOS


I have followed telephone DWP advice and submitted a GL24 reference the date and the distance.


How will this proceed now please




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Hello Nystagmite


Thanks for the reply. That is interesting as in the ATOS report it says I would be unable to mobilise using a wheelchair and not understanding I thought what a strange comment to make


ATOS report was not bad at all...but it was the picking an item up off the floor which I did not do and was not asked to do and the 100 metres malarky


following the crown court appearance its just one problem after another coming along. Got issues with my council tax and housing benefit as well being suspended over a 53 pence a week discrepency which is another story


thanks for the reply



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They don't have to write down what you say you can do, they have to put what they think you can do, improbable and baseless though their assumptions might be. That's why you might say one thing and they put something completely different in their report.

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The best initial advice I can offer is to read the forum guide to appeals at;




'How will this proceed now please'


A Jobcentreplus decision maker will decide whether or not to accept the late appeal. From what you've written, you've good cause (late receipt of the decision) for the late appeal but if Jobcentreplus decide otherwise admissibility automatically gets referred to a first tier tribunal judge.


Assuming your appeal's accepted a senior decision maker will reconsider the original decision. Now's the time to send in any additional evidence to support your appeal for the support component of employment n support. Medical reports, statement from your wife specially if she's your carer, description of what happens, and why, if you try to mobilise 50 metres, etcetera.


In due course Jobcentreplus either revise their decision or (more likely) send your appeal to the Tribunals Service for an oral (recommended) or paper hearing before an employment and support tribunal panel.


The confusing Work n Pensions addresses are cos incapacity benefit reassessment cases are dealt with by separate designated benefit centres. If in doubt, send letters etcetera to your usual office who can forward relevant paperwork to the correct office.


The bending and kneeling descriptor (for retrieving items off the floor) was dropped in 2011. :roll:


Sincerely, Margaret. :panda:

Edited by **Margaret**
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Hello Staryeyes52


Many thanks for the reply all very helpful. I would hope the number of telephone calls are recorded when I have telephoned and asked for a progress update will add weight to the fact I had no information given what so ever for such a long time.


I will read the sticky and then wait to see how my letter is dealt with


thanks again Margaret


I have sent the same letter to each benefit centre to ensure that its received





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I was put into the WRAG with no Face to Face assessment and the HCP contradicted everything I put on my ESA50. Amazing really. an HCP who can do remote diagnosis. Uri Geller maybe?


I sent in my Appeal and request for Documents to Newcastle and then got replies from Preston with all their latters stating I should send my appeal to Preston. Thats after already receiving a confirmation of my intent to appeal from Newcastle.

I called Preston and asked them what was going on and they stated I should send all documents to Newcastle !!

This I did with a covering letter to Preston advising them of the phone call and where my Appeal has been sent.

Taking a poke at the world


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

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  • 3 weeks later...



For a change I have good news to report. My migration to ESA has been looked at again and I have been taken out of the Work Related Group and put into the Support Group for three years.


I have had it confirmed in writing and I am just waiting to see what rate I am on


so that is the end of this .................hopefully





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  • 9 months later...

Was on I B since 2005

deformed hip (degenerative and debilitating)

fused spine (degenerative and debilitating) inoperable

arthritic knees with shot cartillage

scored Zero points with ATOS given 15 at tribunal 10 months later

seen jobcentre advisor once in six months told by her ime totally unemployable and too infirm to work so dont need to see her that often ? lol




unfortunatley whatever you get contributory ESA is only awarded for 12 months

ive just recieved my income related benefit award of £17.87 a week 9 down fron £101 cont ESA )

my £65 occupational pension and my son living at home means thats all ime entitled to

utterly worthless

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I believe you are wrong biglesbo,Contributory ESA support group is indefinate,subject only to remaining in the support group after future medicals/decisions.ESA wrag lasts 1 year.

Living in the wild windy west of Ireland

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From the government website,

Contribution-based ESA


Contribution-based ESA lasts 1 year if you’re in the work-related activity group. You may be able to re-apply at least 12 weeks after your contribution-based ESA ends. You may qualify again depending on:


National Insurance contributions you paid in different tax years

whether your health deteriorates and you’re placed in the support group

There’s no time limit on how long you can claim contribution-based ESA if you’re in the support group.

Living in the wild windy west of Ireland

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I believe you are wrong biglesbo,Contributory ESA support group is indefinate,subject only to remaining in the support group after future medicals/decisions.ESA wrag lasts 1 year.



Sorry i was referring to wrag which is where i am


i find it strange that i have to see an advisor only once every 6 months or so the reason being Quote

" its clear that due to your various ailments you wont ever work again and are unemployable"



as an Atos trainer stated in the training video


"this isn't about getting people back to work its about reducing the benefit we pay them "

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In the weird :???: :???: world of employment n support allowance, not always understood by Jobcentreplus contact centres or decision makers;


Contribution flavoured employment n support allowance, at assessment rate or with the work related activity component (paid if the decision after an assessment is limited capability for work) is time limited to three hundred and sixty five days in England, Scotland, and Wales. At the end of which, claimants with low/no other income or savings above £16,000 (including a partner's) can use an ESA3 form to apply for an income related award. Application for an income flavoured award won't trigger another ESA50 or Atos 'medical' unless one was due anyway. Similar legislation to time limit contribution flavoured employment n support allowance with the work related activity component is proposed for Northern Ireland, but hasn't yet been enacted.


Both flavours of employment n support allowance with the support component, contributions based and income related, are paid for so long as the decision after an assessment is limited capability for work related activity.


Eligibility for transfer from the work related activity component to the support component would involve a routine reassessment, via ESA50 and possible Atos 'medical'. Or request to Jobcentreplus/Social Security for a supersession (new decision about limited capability for work related activity) via ESA50 and possible Atos 'medical' unless the claimant had alternative evidence of deteriorating function.


Descriptors of limited capability for work related activity at;




Exceptional/special circumstances at pages 11 - 12.


Descriptors at pages 26 - 28.







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The whole thing is farce ,can you not get into the support group?


Only scored 15 points at the tribunal unfortunatley


incapacitated = unfit for work ( 2005 till 20013 )

capable 20013 ( but perversley still incapacitated )

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