Local Government - Annual Leave Qustion

[Confusionreigns]

I have worked for Local Government since 2003. Last year I changed from one authority to another and continuous service has been recognised in respect of an extra 5 days paid annual leave.

 

However, we've just been told that employees who started work with the authority after 2011 (I started with them in 2012) will have to use 2 days of their annual leave over the Christmas period, those who were in post prior to 2011 will be 'given' these 2 days.

 

My manager has suggested that I will have to use the 2 days as I started work with them after the cut off date. But...my thoughts are that as I've got extra annual leave due to continuous service, was I not already 'in post' from 2003?

 

Any thoughts gratefully received (together with any evidence etc if possible).

[SweetLorraine]

Hi Confusionreigns,

 

well, you can check it out with HR and/or with any of your co-workers who may be in Unite or Unison.

 

They are talking about annual leave in general - there will be any number of employees there with various amounts of leave entitlement.

 

'In-post' refers to your time with the Authority, not your time in Local Government. If you have five extra days for continuous Local Government experience it is immaterial with regards to the decision on Xmas leave.

 

From what you have said so far though, you will be using the two days over Xmas as you were not working for the Authority before the cut-off date.

 

All the best.

[orfoster]

Unless of course you mean you were "TUPE" transferred across.

 

But as SL has said above you aren't likely to have the leave because it isn't part of your terms and conditions by either a collective agreement or otherwise.

 

I would check with HR though and I'd also check with the local UNISON branch in the employer, if you aren't a member you ought to join given the changes and how this government is hell bent on treating workers like rubbish....

[Confusionreigns]

Thanks both (SL and orfoster) for your replies. Not subject to TUPE btw.

 

What I'm struggling with getting my head around is that my understanding is that Local Authorities are identified as 'one and the same employer' hence the 'carry on' with regards to continuous service. Therefore would I not be considered an employee on the cut off date in 2011 albeit with a different authority? What I'm trying to say is that I'm considered an employee with continuous service for AL purposes but it seems like I'm not considered an employee with continuous service for Christmas leave entitlements. I hope I'm making sense!

 

I intend to contact HR on Monday to clarify the position. Unfortunately nobody in my office has similar circumstances and my direct manager took advice from a junior member of staff.

 

As an addition, could I request the 2 days as unpaid leave rather than take it out of my entitlement? The reason being is that I have already planned my remaining leave for this year and don't want to be left with being 2 days short IYSWIM?

Edited July 27, 2013 by Confusionreigns

[Atlas01]

Sounds like a legally binding trade union collective agreement to me

 

they agree something back in the day and anybody starting after that time tough

[Confusionreigns]

Atlas01 - could well be. Looking at your signature, 'Praemonitus praemunitus' is what I had in mind ;-)

[ericsbrother]

As said, not the same employer so would need to rely on agreements inplace at the time. I doubt if your colleagues will give up their perk just to show solidarity with the less fortunate.

[Confusionreigns]

Ha, ha - wouldn't expect my colleagues (lovely as they are) to give up their 'perks' on my account. Also LGE website says that all LGs ARE the same employer.

 

Just as an addition, talked to senior HR (different authority) today. They stated that in their view this situation is 'frought' with problems. As my contract clearly states that I am entitled to an 'extra' 5 days due to continuous service, in effect I am only getting 3 extra days compared to some others.

 

Will hash it out tomorrow.

[SweetLorraine]

....As my contract clearly states that I am entitled to an 'extra' 5 days due to continuous service, in effect I am only getting 3 extra days compared to some others.

 

Hi Confusionreigns, I think you may find that the decision by your present employer relates to everybody's overall leave entitlement - you are mistaken on simply focusing on your five extra days awarded for continuous Local Government service.

 

If you want to trade semantics with HR they could say that they aren't touching your extra five days entitlement they are talking about your (and everybody else's) basic leave entitlement (for new employees recruited since 2011).

 

You have ten years service in Local Government and if you move between authorities (especially without a break in service) there are several contiguous benefits which will follow you - especially if you are in the Local Government pension scheme. However you have only recently joined your new employer and have been 'in-post' for a relatively short period of time. You can not, by any stretch of the imagination, claim to have ten years service with them. If I were to work for the London Borough of Lewisham, can I also claim to be, at the same time, an employee of Glasgow Council? Of course not.

 

I'd imagine this ruling does not affect many employees in your Local Authority - which is a double edged sword - on the one hand the overall gain to the employer may be so minimal that it isn't worth doing, or the majority of the workforce aren't that bothered as it doesn't affect them.

 

Have a chat with HR by all means, but it would be worth having a chat with a union rep as well - they may well have agreed to this measure as a means to saving current jobs.

 

All the best

[Confusionreigns]

Hi SL - I can see that I've still got the full AL for continuous service, and that my present employer (well immediate manager) is merely telling me when I've got to take 2 of these days. Not unusual - I've previously worked for a company where they shut down for 2 weeks and all employees had to take these 2 weeks as AL. However, it's still worth me putting the question to HR and seeing what they come up with. No asky - no getty! I'm a little miffed that my manager took the word of a junior member of staff rather than ask a little 'higher' up for an answer. I don't believe union reps have agreed to anything - huge problems with every employee being 'sacked' a couple of years ago (made all the headlines!).

[Emmzzi]

Hi SL - I can see that I've still got the full AL for continuous service, and that my present employer (well immediate manager) is merely telling me when I've got to take 2 of these days. Not unusual - I've previously worked for a company where they shut down for 2 weeks and all employees had to take these 2 weeks as AL. However, it's still worth me putting the question to HR and seeing what they come up with. No asky - no getty! I'm a little miffed that my manager took the word of a junior member of staff rather than ask a little 'higher' up for an answer. I don't believe union reps have agreed to anything - huge problems with every employee being 'sacked' a couple of years ago (made all the headlines!).

 

Really? It's a simple question and I doubt it is the first time it's been asked. It's entirely possible for junior staff to have brains; just because they diagree with you doesn't make them thick.

 

Why can't you ask the union yourself instead of believing what they have done, again?

[assisted blonde]

when i worked for an la they said we had to take time at christmas no big deal its 2 days and as most las seem to be overstaffed i wouldnt make too much fuss about it . i do know how much leave las give and combined with flexi timr its amazing that anyone is ever in work lol, seriously dont make a lot of fuss or get the union involved.

[Confusionreigns]

Really? It's a simple question and I doubt it is the first time it's been asked. It's entirely possible for junior staff to have brains; just because they diagree with you doesn't make them thick.

 

Why can't you ask the union yourself instead of believing what they have done, again?

 

Strange response! I never suggested that the junior member of staff (who works in a totally unrelated department) in question was 'thick', just that my manager should have perhaps checked this out with HR first. Why would I want to involve unions when I am able to contact HR directly myself, 'again'?

[Confusionreigns]

when i worked for an la they said we had to take time at christmas no big deal its 2 days and as most las seem to be overstaffed i wouldnt make too much fuss about it . i do know how much leave las give and combined with flexi timr its amazing that anyone is ever in work lol, seriously dont make a lot of fuss or get the union involved.

 

I agree, I don't want to make a fuss - just want to hear that this arrangement is correct from the horses mouth (so to speak). Also have no intention of involving unions despite advice given here.

[Atlas01]

(well immediate manager) is merely telling me when I've got to take 2 of these days.

 

 

7.4

Extra Statutory Holidays

Employees shall have an entitlement to two extra statutory days

holiday, the timing of which shall be determined by the

authority in consultation with the recognised Trade Unions with

a view to reaching agreement, or added to annual leave by local

agreement.