Council Tax Arrears & Bailiff For Old Property

[scedminc]

Hi,

 

I have just had a bailiff but several notices for some old liability orders relating back a few years for an old property I lived at. I admit I owe the money and this dates back to when I was in serious financial difficulty which led to the loss of my home.

 

The amount claimed which I assume is correct due to their age is £4k. Other than the bailiff turning up today, I have not heard anything from the council since moving.

 

Due to the amount, I would like to buy some time as I guess the bailiff wont accept an offer of £500 a month until it is cleared.

 

Should the council have written to me with a formal demand again at my new property before instructing the bailiffs again??

 

The notices received were the usual threats of removing items even in my absence (well it said may).

 

Many thanks

[ss002d6252]

Hi,

 

I have just had a bailiff but several notices for some old liability orders relating back a few years for an old property I lived at. I admit I owe the money and this dates back to when I was in serious financial difficulty which led to the loss of my home.

 

The amount claimed which I assume is correct due to their age is £4k. Other than the bailiff turning up today, I have not heard anything from the council since moving.

 

Due to the amount, I would like to buy some time as I guess the bailiff wont accept an offer of £500 a month until it is cleared.

 

Should the council have written to me with a formal demand again at my new property before instructing the bailiffs again??

 

The notices received were the usual threats of removing items even in my absence (well it said may).

 

Many thanks

 

Once the statutory 14 day notice has been issued advising that a bailiff may be instructed then there is no requirement for further notification of this to be issued again at a later point.

[ploddertom]

Moved to Bailiff Forum

[scedminc]

Once the statutory 14 day notice has been issued advising that a bailiff may be instructed then there is no requirement for further notification of this to be issued again at a later point.

 

Agreed but what about where it states in the regs that the notice must be sent to the persons current address. Ok I got a notice 2 years plus ago to my previous address but the bailiffs would surely have returned the case back to the council. Therefore to reissue back to a bailiff they would have to re-notify. Also what about the fact they are chasing this years council tax for a liability order illegally obtained due to the fact I paid the day before the hearing and I called them to confirm??

[ploddertom]

Agreed but what about where it states in the regs that the notice must be sent to the persons current address. Does it - which Regulation is that?

Regulation 35 (2) states:

A summons issued under regulation 34(2) may be served on a person— (a)by delivering it to him, or

(b)by leaving it at his usual or last known place of abode, or in the case of a company, at its registered office, or

©by sending it by post to him at his usual or last known place of abode, or in the case of a company, to its registered office, or

(d)by leaving it at, or by sending it by post to him at, an address given by the person as an address at which service of the summons will be accepted.

According to the above your last known address is sufficient.

 

Ok I got a notice 2 years plus ago to my previous address but the bailiffs would surely have returned the case back to the council. Therefore to reissue back to a bailiff they would have to re-notify. Also what about the fact they are chasing this years council tax for a liability order illegally obtained due to the fact I paid the day before the hearing and I called them to confirm??

Regulation 34 (8) states

Where the sum payable is paid after a liability order has been applied for under paragraph (2) but before it is made, the court shall nonetheless (if so requested by the billing authority) make the order in respect of a sum of an amount equal to the costs reasonably incurred by the authority in making the application.

 

 

PT

[scedminc]

Ok cool, got you on the first bit. I misunderstood something that someone mentioned in that case.

 

As for the second again I agree but the liability order was for the full balance and not costs. I called the council and confirmed payment has been made. They then despite this wrote to me and said they had a liability order so again I called and they said sorry an error was made but yet they have sent it to bailiff and for that one no 14 days statutory notice was sent. How many cock ups can the councils get away with here!!

[tomtubby]

The situation with bailiffs is this:

 

The bailiff RELIES upon his fees and with council tax the statutory fee of £24.50 for "attending to levy" is pathetically low having not been increased for many years.

In order to earn a decent amount the bailiff will be looking at ways in which to apply a VAN ATTENDANCE fee. In order to get this fee charged he will need to be able to first " levy" upon goods. This will normally be by either managing to gain entry into your home or easier still....by levying upon your car.

 

If you do not allow the bailiff into your home or do not have a car then his fees are limited to a maximum of £42.50.

 

PS: The bailiff cannot apply "multiple" fees for enforcing more than one Liability Order. This was made very clear in a damning Local Government Ombudsman's report last year against Blaby District Council.

[scedminc]

The situation with bailiffs is this:

 

The bailiff RELIES upon his fees and with council tax the statutory fee of £24.50 for "attending to levy" is pathetically low having not been increased for many years.

In order to earn a decent amount the bailiff will be looking at ways in which to apply a VAN ATTENDANCE fee. In order to get this fee charged he will need to be able to first " levy" upon goods. This will normally be by either managing to gain entry into your home or easier still....by levying upon your car.

 

If you do not allow the bailiff into your home or do not have a car then his fees are limited to a maximum of £42.50.

 

PS: The bailiff cannot apply "multiple" fees for enforcing more than one Liability Order. This was made very clear in a damning Local Government Ombudsman's report last year against Blaby District Council.

 

Hi,

 

Many thanks, that is useful information. I am off to the council on Monday to make complaints about there general conduct (both council and bailiffs). I will asking for a list of what has been added etc for charges because I am sure they would have put all the charges on a few years back so it is pointless a bailiff coming round now. I have had them levy on two vehicles that I know of in the past but they werent my vehicles. Bailiffs are simply liars as we all know. I do have two vehicles that I recently purchased for whilst registered in mine and my wifes name, they are both owned by my limited company. They are both also parked on the road so its simply pot luck on what they try and levy.

 

Any suggestions about the liability for this year as mentioned above and the best way to tackle this. My main aim is to get the bailiffs of my back so I can just pay back the council per month. Also I will never pay the bailiffs because they charge a fee for taking the card payment and will not accept cash (not that I would pay cash anyway). Actually whilst I think of it, are the bailiffs allowed to charge a fee per card transaction as they are not within the tariff of what can be charged?

 

Many thanks

[tomtubby]

The "Blaby" LGO decision was mainly in connection with a bailiff levying upon goods that were not owned by the debtor. The outcome being that all fees associated with the wrongfull MUST be removed.

 

Once you have breakdown...please post back.

[Mark1960]

Hi,

 

Many thanks, that is useful information. I am off to the council on Monday to make complaints about there general conduct (both council and bailiffs). I will asking for a list of what has been added etc for charges because I am sure they would have put all the charges on a few years back so it is pointless a bailiff coming round now. I have had them levy on two vehicles that I know of in the past but they werent my vehicles. Bailiffs are simply liars as we all know. I do have two vehicles that I recently purchased for whilst registered in mine and my wifes name, they are both owned by my limited company. They are both also parked on the road so its simply pot luck on what they try and levy.

 

Any suggestions about the liability for this year as mentioned above and the best way to tackle this. My main aim is to get the bailiffs of my back so I can just pay back the council per month. Also I will never pay the bailiffs because they charge a fee for taking the card payment and will not accept cash (not that I would pay cash anyway). Actually whilst I think of it, are the bailiffs allowed to charge a fee per card transaction as they are not within the tariff of what can be charged?

 

Many thanks

 

With regards to this years liability order,my advice would be to pay it to the council (making sure that it goes against the correct years account).You can argue that it shouldn't have gone to bailiffs & you MAY win the argument.If you lose then you will still have to pay the liability order charges as well as any bailiff fees incurred so you might just as well pay it now (around £90 I'd guess.)

 

As for your older bill,you have problems.They will be attending & if they discover the vehicles,you will probably have to prove that your company purchased them.Bailiffs rely on case law in which a judge dismisses the authority of the LGO & alleviates the bailiffs responsibility to prove ownership by DVLA checks.If it were me,I would write to the council,informing them that you will happily pay this debt directly to them & that you will not be dealing with bailiffs.Inform them that by refusing to deal with you directly,the council is creating an avoidable delay in the collection of arrears.The council will refuse to take it back so you need to be on guard for any pending bailiff visits.Eventually,you will be threatened with "committal to prison" but this is a bluff because if you've offered to pay (albeit directly to the council),you cannot be committed to prison.It may well be that the council will hit you with an AOE which can be painful & probably end up with you paying more than you'd ideally like to.This will probably be 2 months off so if I were you,I'd save the £500 a month you proposed,giving you £1000 to play with when the AOE kicks in.

 

I am currently going to court regarding bailiff charges & one item that I am disputing is card fees.The council claim that they are legitimate under Section 93 of the Local Government Finance Act 1993.I'm disputing them anyway.

[scedminc]

With regards to this years liability order,my advice would be to pay it to the council (making sure that it goes against the correct years account).You can argue that it shouldn't have gone to bailiffs & you MAY win the argument.If you lose then you will still have to pay the liability order charges as well as any bailiff fees incurred so you might just as well pay it now (around £90 I'd guess.)

 

Hi, As previously stated, this years council tax was PAID IN FULL the day before it even got to court and they knew it so there is nothing to pay and no bailiff fees would be due. Infact it was all paid including the £50 for applying for the liability order so everything from my end is correct. As it is a different address I paid it under the correct account number as my previous bills have a different one.

 

I am currently going to court regarding bailiff charges & one item that I am disputing is card fees.The council claim that they are legitimate under Section 93 of the Local Government Finance Act 1993.I'm disputing them anyway.

 

It is my belief that you would have a case if they state section 93 because if you pay the council direct there is no charge but if you pay the bailiff then there is a charge for the card payment. As we all no there is a set tariff of charges that the bailiff can make and card payment fees are not one of them so surely they are unlawful????

[Mark1960]

The bulk of the charge is for obtaining the summons,not the LO-Still if you have paid all this as well as your council tax then you don't owe any money & enforcement would be wrong.

[brassnecked]

If you paid BEFORE the LO was obtained then the council have no leg to stand on so should recall the account from the bailiffs who should never have been given it in the first place. Time to do a Formal Complaint copied to CEO, Leader, and your MP highlighting your non debt and the council's attempts to recover it, with bailiffs adding fees to collect a debt of £0.00

 

Wonder if they obtained the LO for £0.00, I think Lincolnshire Council have obtained LOs for as little as a pound or even in extremis one penny.