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Help with Penalty Fare Notice please!!

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Good afternoon all!

 

I will list the series of events leading to where we are now and hope that someone may be able to best advise me on what action to take moving forward:

 

11th june girlfriend came to visit in southend (goes uni in lancaster)

12th june gets a train from southend airport to stratford

train was there so didnt get on the ticket before boarding (says its normal up north to be able to get tickets on train so didnt know)

ticket inspector comes round and asks where started from and she said southend

ticket inspector put down southend victoria instead of southend airport (not sure if this is what she said or what he assumed.. cant remember)

she got penalty fare.. paid for the single to get there at the time and was told to pay the rest of the fine within 21 days but didnt. letter dated 5th july was sent to her old uni address which she gave cos wasnt quite finished at the time when giving it but had finished and was living with me before getting the letter

and so yesterday went back for graduation and saw it

 

says this:

 

on 12 june 2013 , you travelled from southend victoria to stratford (london). because you were unable to show a valid ticket or any other authority to travel, greater anglia gave you a penalty fare notice under the penalty fare rules 2002.

the penalty fare notice explained that you may appeal against the notice not later than 21 days after the journey. accoridg to our records you ahve no appealed, and you have now forfeited the right to appeal. the paymet now due is £12.60 plus an administration fee of £30.00, making a total outstanding of £42.60.

in order to settle this matter and to avoid further costs, please now make sure your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter.

you can pay online... etc

 

what im wondering is that because it was southend airport and not southend victoria does she have to do anything? as far as i am away southend airport is a non penalty fare station and so shouldnt have anything happen anyway?

is there anything that can be done regarding incorrect information?

also obviously not good that taken so long to do something about this but not getting the letter etc wasnt anything that could realistically have been helped.. the 21 days thing could have been but she lost the slip she got and i dont remember it saying anything about how to appeal on it but i could be wrong. as far as i remember just said what to do to pay the rest

 

can we do something to avoid paying anything more seeing as its a non penalty station? or is it too late for that now?

 

also.. it said to pay within 14 days of the letter being sent which we have now passed seeing as only got it yesterday.. what usually happens next and how quickly does this happen after the 14 days? just wondering how much time we have to act

 

thanks in advance for the help!!

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Bit late asking now, after the appeal deadline.

 

You also seem unsure as to who actually said "Southend Victoria".

 

The (unpaid) Penalty Fare can be cancelled, and criminal proceedings initiated instead.

 

I am curious of how she ended up boarding at the Airport. Seems a little convenient.

 

I'd pay up and realise that you had 21 days to rectify any misunderstandings. Next letter could be a court summons.

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Bit late asking now, after the appeal deadline.

 

You also seem unsure as to who actually said "Southend Victoria"

 

The (unpaid) Penalty Fare can be cancelled, and criminal proceedings initiated instead.

 

I am curious of how she ended up boarding at the Airport. Seems a little convenient.

 

I'd pay up and realise that you had 21 days to rectify any misunderstandings. Next letter could be a court summons.

 

I realise its late but better to ask late than not at all.. it is convenient to board at the airport seeing as I live 2 minutes from there and 20 from victoria. Im sure if necessary camera checks can confirm this?

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Hello there.

 

I'm not a rail person like firstclass although I've been around this forum for a while, but I think you need to proceed with caution here.

 

If you argue too much and annoy the prosecutions person, as firstclassx says, this could end up going to court which will likely cost more than what is currently being asked for.

 

If it goes to court, it will be with lay magistrates and I have to say that as a lay person, I'm not sure this story stacks up.

 

You seem to know a lot about penalty fare stations, but didn't know that people should buy a ticket before they board the train. We see people here all the time who assumed they could buy a ticket on the train and then got a penalty fare or managed to settle before it got to court.

 

In your position, I have to say I would pay up now rather than risk it going higher.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello there.

 

I'm not a rail person like firstclass although I've been around this forum for a while, but I think you need to proceed with caution here.

 

If you argue too much and annoy the prosecutions person, as firstclassx says, this could end up going to court which will likely cost more than what is currently being asked for.

 

If it goes to court, it will be with lay magistrates and I have to say that as a lay person, I'm not sure this story stacks up.

 

You seem to know a lot about penalty fare stations, but didn't know that people should buy a ticket before they board the train. We see people here all the time who assumed they could buy a ticket on the train and then got a penalty fare or managed to settle before it got to court.

 

In your position, I have to say I would pay up now rather than risk it going higher.

 

My best, HB

 

Fair enough.. better to pay less than more. Just frustrating she didnt say anything to me sooner.. wouldve posted on here and sorted it! I only know a little about fare stations.. not enough to say much but she didnt know at all and thoyght was ok to get tickets on the train like she does up north.

 

Isnt too much of a problem.. just a little frustrating to know if that if correct information was either given by her/written by them it would be nothing

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Fair enough.. better to pay less than more. Just frustrating she didnt say anything to me sooner.. wouldve posted on here and sorted it! I only know a little about fare stations.. not enough to say much but she didnt know at all and thoyght was ok to get tickets on the train like she does up north.

 

Isnt too much of a problem.. just a little frustrating to know if that if correct information was either given by her/written by them it would be nothing

 

 

It is worth adding a further note of caution.

 

HB & firstclassx are spot on with this one, if I were your GF I would pay-up and minimise the risk, but it is not true to generalise by saying 'up north it's OK to get tickets on the train'.

 

Where there is an advertised policy of 'pay on train' it is acceptable, but this does not apply everywhere.

 

Many people are finding out to their cost that breach of National Railway Byelaw 18.1 is resulting in prosecution for the strict liability offence of failing to pay the fare before boarding a train where a machine or booking office was available at the station.

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Thanks for the reply

 

Yeah I shouldnt really generalise this by saying up north is ok but that isnt themain point. Would that have held up do you think if it was and was within the appeal timeframe?

Main thing is that she actually boarded at a non penalty fare station so none of this should be happening at all but wasnt sure how that all works outside of the 21 day thing

 

Ive sent an appeal ircas now so will see what happens next and probably post the result.. lets hope for the best!

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Without knowing exactly which station she boarded at, where the journey was to and on which rail operator's service, it isn't possible to give accurate answers.

 

Outside the 21 day period allowed it is most likely that IRCAS will reject any appeal as permitted under the rules unless there are truly exceptional reasons to allow it.

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If your appeal is granted on the basis that the PFN was incorrectly issued, that leaves the TOC with 2 options:

 

1) they give up and go away, or

2) they say "cant deal with this as a penalty fare" but she didn't show a ticket on demand : there were facilities available for her to obtain a ticket or permit to travel, and no authorised person gave her permission to board without a ticket.

Let's take her to court and prosecute her under Bylaw 18.

'OK she'll end up with a criminal record, but they were correct, it isn't something we could deal with by way of a PFN, so that route isn't available.

 

So, be careful what you wish for.

Edited by BazzaS

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Without knowing exactly which station she boarded at, where the journey was to and on which rail operator's service, it isn't possible to give accurate answers.

 

Outside the 21 day period allowed it is most likely that IRCAS will reject any appeal as permitted under the rules unless there are truly exceptional reasons to allow it.

 

OC, in post #1, Alex says she boarded at Southend Airport to go to Stratford, but the RPI wrote down Southend Victoria. Hence the thoughts about penalty fare and non penalty fare stations.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thanks HB, I'd missed, or forgotten that

 

According to the TOC information Southend Airport station has both a ticket office and self-service ticket machine.

 

The booking office is open 7 days a week between 06.00 and 23.00 hours

 

I cannot see any reason why an appeal would be successful in this case

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