How Far does 'off-road' 'verge' parking extend to?

[Davehunt381]

I have unsuccessfully challenged a parking ticket which relates to parking on the verge or pavement adjacent to a highway (with double yellow lines on it) and now await the 'notice to owner' to continue the challenge.

 

I am aware of the rules (now they have been detailed) of the verge and pavement area being included in the road markings which are adjacent to such. However, how far doe this extend to?

 

I parked on a paved area which; was not on the 5m wide grassed area immediately next to the road; nor the 5m wide footpath which ran alongside the grassed area; but on the next area (also paved) which was separated from the footpath by a raised kerb type edging.

 

This means i parked 10m away from the highway - past the verge, past the footpath - does the rule still apply here and where does it then end. Would the rule apply 20m away? 30? 100?

[Jamberson]

The usual rule is that the yellow lines cover everything up to the boundary of a building or wall etc.

 

What's the location?

[Davehunt381]

A section of road on the A61 (Sheaf St) Sheffield, approaching the Park Sq roundabout from the South, running alongside Ponds Forge. Google Maps

53.381895, -1.461806‎

+53° 22' 54.82", -1° 27' 42.50

[Davehunt381]

I have also just noticed (on Google Maps) that although there is double yellow lines there is a'no loading' sign on the road btw 9 & 6. The contravention was 20.13. Would this aid my cause?

[green_and_mean]

I have unsuccessfully challenged a parking ticket which relates to parking on the verge or pavement adjacent to a highway (with double yellow lines on it) and now await the 'notice to owner' to continue the challenge.

 

I am aware of the rules (now they have been detailed) of the verge and pavement area being included in the road markings which are adjacent to such. However, how far doe this extend to?

 

I parked on a paved area which; was not on the 5m wide grassed area immediately next to the road; nor the 5m wide footpath which ran alongside the grassed area; but on the next area (also paved) which was separated from the footpath by a raised kerb type edging.

 

This means i parked 10m away from the highway - past the verge, past the footpath - does the rule still apply here and where does it then end. Would the rule apply 20m away? 30? 100?

 

Unless I'm looking at the wrong location you are on the footway? There is the carriageway, then a grass verge, then a cycle track, then footway.

[sailor sam]

Is this it?

 

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=%2B53%C2%B0+22'+54.82%22,+-1%C2%B0+27'+42.50&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=53.381537,-1.460989&spn=0.008767,0.022724&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=8.895518,23.269043&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.381375,-1.46105&panoid=OgyEmXcx232xx7_hrfp3DQ&cbp=12,0.93,,0,2.72

 

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[Davehunt381]

I am not sure why you consider there to be a cycle track. There are no marking on either end of this section of footpath to indicate that it is a cycle route/path. Nor as you cross the road

 

If you look at the end of this section closest to the roundabout, you will also see that the paved area leading off the carriageway (to the barrier) actual runs back alongside the footpath, which is where the car was parked. Does this not also indicate a vehicular area?

[Davehunt381]

sorry missed the previous post - yes that is the section

[sailor sam]

Looks like the entrance to a service road to me. I can't understand how you could park there without either obstructing the entrance or footway? What was the exact contravention on the PCN?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Davehunt381]

Sorry - I didnt mean I parked in front of the barrier, as clearly that would be an obstruction. I parked on the section which runs alongside the footpath, where the low, grey, metal barriers run. I even avoided the entrance sections where the grey barrier split.

 

The contravention was 'Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours'

 

I accept the points (whether I agree or not) that the verge or pavement has the same restrictions as the adjoining carriageway, but I am little perplexed at how such a restriction could apply so far away from the carriageway, when other areas are in between, i.e. the verge first, then the footpath. As suggested in my original post, such a restriction could apply if parking 100m away. When is an area no longer classified as adjoining, after all the dictionary definition of adjoining is; 'being in contact; connected or neighbouring'

[Davehunt381]

I am starting to think there may be more issues here than I originally thought.

 

Having again looked at the images - there are double yellow line markings on the kerb. This indicates 'no loading at any time'. Whereas the sign above these lines states 'no loading Mon-Sat 8a.m - 6.30 p.m' Isnt this incorrect signage, (at very least misleading signage)? and therefore the restriction of parking on the verge/footpath is also questionable

 

Please tell me if I'm fighting a lost cause here!?

[sailor sam]

I Think you will find the restriction applies up to the 'low grey barriers'. It's interesting though that there is a different coloured pathway there. At first I though it could of been a cycle route but I cannot see any signage or markings to indicate this.

 

Can I ask is there any particular reason for parking there as it seems a very strange place to park to me.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Davehunt381]

There surely must be some guidelines somewhere on this. I have been trying to find legislation/laws etc., where it states that the verge/footpath comes under the same restrictions as the carriageway. I am sure I have seen it before, but cant recall the exact wording.

 

The big grey building is Ponds Forge Swimming Pool, with very little parking available, so the area parked in is one of the few areas where you can park.

 

I used the 'different colour' aspect in my original challenge, also the lack of marking, as well as the verge then footpath argument, which they simply declined without explanation. I didn't use the contradictory signs and kerb marking though - do you think this would be a viable argument to add to the mix when challenging further?

[sailor sam]

All I can tell you is that the yellow line restriction does include any adjoining footway or verge up to the boundary with any private land normally indicated by a fence, hedge or wall. I think the only way you are going to find out on this is taking it all the way to PATAS (independent adjudicator). They will have to decide whether the area you were parked on was private and still covered by the restriction. Problem is, if you loose, you will have to pay the full penalty so you need to ask yourself if it is worth the risk.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Jamberson]

As you point out, there are no markings indicating a cycle path. So, if the place you parked was not a cycle path either, and also was not a grass verge, what was it? It can only be defined as part of the footway. What else could it be? Indeed, the aerial photo on Google shows pedestrians walking along it.

 

The restrictions apply to the highway. The highway is made up of the carriageway, the footway and the verge up to a barrier forming the boundary of a building etc. I can envisage that in some cases there could be ambiguity in where that lies, but not in this case. The highway quite obviously ends where the grey barriers are, so the question of distances etc is academic so far as your PCN is concerned.

 

As regards the loading ban, can you tell us when (time and day) the PCN was issued?

[green_and_mean]

When did it become acceptable to drive off the road and just park up anywhere? When I learnt to drive I was taught that cars were meant to be on the road unless in a car park or on your drive. It now seems acceptable to just drive anywhere and leave your car, I've even seen cars parked on roadside flower beds in the past. Regardless of the yellow lines covering where you parked how did you actually get there, you must have either driven across the lovely mown grass verge or driven down the footway both of which are inexcusable in my book!

[crem]

Regardless of the yellow lines covering where you parked how did you actually get there, you must have either driven across the lovely mown grass verge or driven down the footway both of which are inexcusable in my book!

 

I would imagine he drove in the vehicular access to the barriered off roadway then turned the car left to park next to the barrier.

 

Whilst it still may be true that he shouldn't have parked there. I think it is a little unfair to suggest he has plowed though a pedestrianed walkway or took his car cross-country to actually arrive at his parking location.